Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Votecount 2.12:

BlueBloodedToffee - [2] - Josh_B, Hostile Intent
Josh_B - [2] - BlueBloodedToffee, ZZZX
ZZZX - [1] - Heartless
Lying Cat - [1] - Guilty Gunsmith

Not voting - [1] - Lying Cat

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-10 17:11:03)

[Hostile Intent]

What's the deal with Lying Cat?

[Lying Cat]

What's the deal with Lying Cat?

What's the deal with you?








I'll read the thread in a bit.

[Lying Cat]

LC your vote negligence is still fucking troubling. Why are you doing that? Do you not have any ideas anywhere at this stage of the game? I refuse to believe that BOTH OF YOU are completely devoid of analytical conclusions thus far. Especially with a scumflip. Hello... are you in there?

Hi. I said I wanted to talk about Josh. Then you called me scum for resisting your pet wagon, which is hilarious. Then I posted my thoughts about josh, and everyone ignored me. Then AP said he'd be down to lynch josh BUT TOTALLY NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO.

Like, you and TTH want me to talk and then ignore me when I do. Jingle's like twenty pages behind because he got all 'ooh shiny' on his game with Who.

TTH had good analysis, but then didn't engage on my josh opinions. Antihero and AP keep dredging up insane paranoia about me, and when I handhold AP, Anti sees it as a scumtell. I'm clearly and demonstrably town, but you all keep getting paranoid anyway. It's like you're trying to read my slot with Guyett meta for some insane reason.

You and AP are turning anti-town hydra dissonance into an artform. One head posts a read, people discuss and agree with it, then the other head attacks those people. Your slot is simultaneously pushing

both

the biggest wagons today, and attacking and undermining

both

of them as well. If anyone disagrees with you it's 'oh no that was the other head.' But I'm totally not allowed to scumread you for it.

tldr i have thoughts in thread, but nobody's acknowledging them. I could continue talking to myself, but that would be vigorously masturbatory. And while I am

all about that

, doing it in thread is rude. And I don't need to vote, because plurality.

Wake me up when you solve the dissonance. There's not much for me to do until that happens.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

You and AP are turning anti-town hydra dissonance into an artform. One head posts a read, people discuss and agree with it, then the other head attacks those people. Your slot is simultaneously pushing both the biggest wagons today, and attacking and undermining both of them as well. If anyone disagrees with you it's 'oh no that was the other head.' But I'm totally not allowed to scumread you for it.

I knooooooooooooooow. I can't fix it. We can't agree. A lot because we've both been hella busy and bad at coordinating/using the hydra PT. We're terrible. I'm not even being sarcastic. I feel seriously guilty about this game. My incessantly horrible and careless slips and the dissonance.

I'm sorry Wicked!!

Wake me up when you solve the dissonance.

see you in twenty years, Rip.

*sigh*

If you and Heartless can agree on something, we'll vote there and be done with it.

ETL

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Yeah but also I'd like you to place a vote even if you think you don't have to because should today not be the end, I want to know where you've been.

ETL

[ZZZX]

Whats the deal with GG lol.

he is attacking people in a weiiird way.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Hostile Intent

[TellTaleHeart]

Like, you and TTH want me to talk and then ignore me when I do.

Here's my problem with the Josh case.

You say that the end-of-day "vanity wagon" is a scummy association. But I say there's another reasonable explanation for that. Over most of the course of the day, Flubbernugget repeatedly criticizes Josh but his vote never actually ends up on Josh. He knew the votecount here; he knew good and well his vote wasn't on Josh. It wasn't just on a whim. It wasn't "just because". It was a deliberate and calculated move. Every time he logged on and made a post in this game, he kept his vote off Josh

and he wanted it that way.

Why?

I think the most direct and reasonable explanation is that he didn't want his fingerprints on the wagon. And the most likely reason for that is that Josh is chosen. If Flubber were bussing, wouldn't he be OK with having his fingerprints all over the wagon? Isn't the idea behind bussing in the first place to have the vote there so that when the partner flips, the scum gets towncred?

What's your thought on that sthar?

[Josh_B]

Sthar, I didn't ignore you.
What do you think about BBT and why?

At this point it looks like you are still trying to push a GG/Josh scum team even though we already have a flip.

[Hostile Intent]

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

[TellTaleHeart]

Antihero and AP keep dredging up insane paranoia about me, and when I handhold AP, Anti sees it as a scumtell. I'm clearly and demonstrably town, but you all keep getting paranoid anyway. It's like you're trying to read my slot with Guyett meta for some insane reason.

The only thing I'm second guessing with

you

is that you're townreading my half of the hydra for my push on Flubber and you're acting like Antihero is somehow suspect even though Antihero was the main force behind our Flubber attack yesterday. I kind of feel like you're subtly pushing a wedge between Anti and me and it just troubles me a little and gives me some paranoia about you.

Don't shut down on me because of it, though. You seem to be convinced Josh is the answer, but neither I nor Anti do. (I'm not appealing to authority here either, if you think that's what I'm doing. I know how much of a lummox Antihero can be....)

Nothing I've seen from ZZZX made me change my opinion of him. He used behavior from

one

previous game (kind of a small sample size) for the BBT read and then suddenly goes back on it without much explanation to pursue Josh, who is a townread of mine. His recent activity is raising more questions then it's answering. It seems the only adjective we're getting for describing reads is "weird" and that doesn't really mean anything to me.

Let's talk about Guilty Gunsmith since that seems to be an issue with you, sthar.

The only two things that really get me are:
*ETL's first conversation with Anti about Flubber starting around post 409. With the goggles of retrospect (knowing Flubber really was scum), there's visible scum motivation for shutting Antihero down.
*Any of AngryPidgeon's activity starting at post 997. Reading his activity is like being in the back seat of a car driven by a crazy person. I have no idea where I'm going.

With that said, I'd like to refer you back to the post I linked earlier. Post 782

In order for this post to have been made by scum, it requires one of a couple things to be true. (1) ETL didn't count on any momentum picking up on the wagon or (2) she thought Flubbernugget was such an obstruction to her winning the game that she thought the towncred from the bus would be worth it. (1) is kind of silly given how both Antihero

and

I were scumreading Flubber at the time and you already said you'd be willing to vote them. (2) is also pretty implausible given that a better way to advance a scum win condition would have been to leave the vote on BBT and let someone else (probably us) take the fall for the ensuing townflip. It's not like Flubbernugget's lynch was inevitable; he could have easily avoided the Day 1 lynch if Guilty Gunsmith didn't get the ball rolling.

What's you take on any of that sthar?

[Heartless]

lazy slob...

[Heartless]

well i'm back to the mental point i was at the beginning of day 1. i'm kind of just bouncing along.

i really don't have a rational response to TTH's arguments for ZZZX other than "lolmeta" and "gut" which she doesn't really buy.

[Heartless]

6 hours and no posts....

only difference is that i'm now sicker than a dog

[Heartless]

alright, sthar

ball's in your court. TTH spelled everything out re: josh.

what's your verdict on ZZZX by the way?

[Josh_B]

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

I do take the night kills into consideration. I also take into consideration who wants it to look like someone else did it. And who is creating WIFOM about it and why.

LyingCat is easily becoming favored lynch.

[Lying Cat]

I think the most direct and reasonable explanation is that he didn't want his fingerprints on the wagon. And the most likely reason for that is that Josh is chosen. If Flubber were bussing, wouldn't he be OK with having his fingerprints all over the wagon? Isn't the idea behind bussing in the first place to have the vote there so that when the partner flips, the scum gets towncred?

What's your thought on that sthar?

This is a really good point, and it really makes me hesitate.

I don't think Flubber was bussing. I think he was

distancing

. The thing is, Flubber wasn't actively trying to get josh lynched. Yesterday you guys called him out for not ever actually

explaining

his josh read. He just kept... saying that he'd be willing to lynch josh, without ever actually trying to convince anyone to do that. Even when the josh wagon was at it's highest point, flubber just ignored it.

Contrast flubber's behavior wrt the not-notscience slot. And then josh came into today going after low-hanging BBT and scum reading me for...

not

scumreading that slot?

It looks like textbook distancing to me. He kept his vote off josh because he didn't actually want him lynched; distancing serves the hat trick purposes of countering associatives in case of a flip, opening the door for potential bussing, and giving the partner a plausible reason for being alive late game.

But you are correct that what I'm seeing as distancing might be a really bad attempt to backseat drive a wagon. AP, Anti, ETL, HI, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Sthar, I didn't ignore you.
What do you think about BBT and why?

At this point it looks like you are still trying to push a GG/Josh scum team even though we already have a flip.

Bro, you're really funny bro.

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

Yes. We are talking about that as well.

The only thing I'm second guessing with you is that you're townreading my half of the hydra for my push on Flubber and you're acting like Antihero is somehow suspect even though Antihero was the main force behind our Flubber attack yesterday. I kind of feel like you're subtly pushing a wedge between Anti and me and it just troubles me a little and gives me some paranoia about you.

Don't shut down on me because of it, though. You seem to be convinced Josh is the answer, but neither I nor Anti do. (I'm not appealing to authority here either, if you think that's what I'm doing. I know how much of a lummox Antihero can be....)

No, I'm hard townreading both of you. But that makes anti super nervous, so I'm not saying it as much. Thing is, Antihero is perfectly capable of turbobussing flubber, but I don't think he'd do it in hydra with you. Add that to your interactions with flubber, and there's no way you two are scum. Do you think I would have backed off GG for anti if I thought there was any chance he wasn't town?

I dunno where you're getting the wedge.

I have responses re: GG but I'm not going there because I promised. As far as I'm concerned, the pool of viable lynches today is {josh, bbt, z}

6 hours and no posts....

only difference is that i'm now sicker than a dog

Don't drink during the day, nerd. Also blame the customers.

alright, sthar

ball's in your court. TTH spelled everything out re: josh.

what's your verdict on ZZZX by the way?

heh. balls.

Idk re: Z. He's usually much more engaged as town, but I think he'd be pushing for chosen-lynches as scum. I find josh much more interesting.

p-edit ooh a

confirmed

FOS without reasoning. Thats pretty scary. Or wait no. Scummy. That's the word.

[Hostile Intent]

But you are correct that what I'm seeing as distancing might be a really bad attempt to backseat drive a wagon. AP, Anti, ETL, HI, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Given the fact that we're talking about a guy who claimed a PR in an open setup, I'd like to think it couldn't be the latter. You're definitely making me second guess my one soft townread, haha.

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

Yes. We are talking about that as well.

I saw a whole lot of text and hadn't seen it mentioned, so I thought I'd throw it against the wall there.

Jesus Christ are you guys leagues above me ability-wise. I want to townread everyone because you're all making so much sense, haha. Perhaps replacing into a game of this caliber wasn't the right choice for a site newb. I'm not going to replace out or anything, but talk about getting thrown in with the qolves. Would not suggest.

[Josh_B]

Sthar, I know that you thought GG was scum on the first day. I'll admit the back and forth on scum reads was a little disconcerting for me, but GG and Heartless both voted for a scum lynch twice, but you still seem to be more concerned about the other stuff they are doing and not focusing on the game- which is really easy: lynch scum/win.
All the stuff that you are talking about can wait til endgame.

You keep posting without voting and I'm grabbing the drain-o because it seems like you are circling, but not really going anywhere.
The plan that I came up with on D1 about not voting and making scum push the lynch doesn't really work anymore, or rather it did work(caught scum) and now it's time to move on.

I see that ZZZX, myself, and BBT are in your pool of viable lynches... So vote BBT. If that's wrong, it's going to suck, but it is what it is, or vote me if that's what you want. Maybe you are looking for information that you don't think you can have without my flip. But as the game goes forward, if BBT really is town, I'm going to be looking in your direction because what you are doing is distracting(talking about things that won't matter if we win), stubborn(not voting), and wasting time in a game that is likely to be a perfect town win.

The case on BBT as scum is about as solid as you can get in a game like this. If it isn't, I've already stated that I'm willing to take the fall for it.

[Lying Cat]

But you are correct that what I'm seeing as distancing might be a really bad attempt to backseat drive a wagon. AP, Anti, ETL, HI, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Given the fact that we're talking about a guy who claimed a PR in an open setup, I'd like to think it couldn't be the latter. You're definitely making me second guess my one soft townread, haha.

Flubber did not claim a PR. He claimed werewolf, which is a flavor of scum. He claimed Vengeful, which would mean he'd get to kill when he was lynched. And he claimed two-shot, which would mean he'd get to kill twice. It's a nonsense role that you will never see in a game. It was a joke, his way of saying "oh shit, you caught me" because he knew he was dead. He then told BBT to hammer him rather than run out the deadline, which is incidentally one of the only points I can see for BBT being scum. He had no reason to hammer because plurality, so did he do it for the towncred? I don't think so, given his next post. I'd bet he just forgot about the impending deadline resulting in a lynch.

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

Yes. We are talking about that as well.

I saw a whole lot of text and hadn't seen it mentioned, so I thought I'd throw it against the wall there.

Jesus Christ are you guys leagues above me ability-wise. I want to townread everyone because you're all making so much sense, haha. Perhaps replacing into a game of this caliber wasn't the right choice for a site newb. I'm not going to replace out or anything, but talk about getting thrown in with the qolves. Would not suggest.

Keep throwing things against the wall; it's incredibly useful.

There's no better way to learn the game than this. And you offer a fresh perspective that us old entrenched people might not be able to see.

[Lying Cat]

josh please don't try to manipulate me. you're not very good at it and i'm embarrassed for you.

[Josh_B]

He then told

BBT

to hammer him rather than run out the deadline,

which is incidentally one of the only points I can see for BBT being scum. He had no reason to hammer because plurality, so did he do it for the towncred? I don't think so, given his next post. I'd bet he just forgot about the impending deadline resulting in a lynch.

Yes, I think he did it for towncred. The deadline was that day.

pedit: I'm working on my skills. But Seriously. Get on board. We'll either have plenty of time to talk about that stuff that you want to talk about, or it won't be necessary.

[Hostile Intent]

I'm pretty annoyed with myself right now.

This posts reads like "Shit, I should seem like I'm remorseful for not having voted this obvscum." but I might be reading that through rose-colored glasses.

Also, am I looking at this right? I breezed through the pages for vote counts and, upon realizing he wasn't going to get T S O lynched, began vote-hopping a lot? Again, glasses, rose-colored, but I don't think its a coincidence that he didn't hammer his partner until he absolutely had to.

[ZZZX]

I am pretty damn sure the last scum is in Josh/BBT

but Josh's passive play here is nothing like the town games we had (f.e When we played Marvel Mafia Large)

Yet like one of the scum games we played together

so I find passiveness a scum tell for josh.