Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[I have no creativity]

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[Anatole Kuragin]

Like I said, I'm reevaluating IHNC

Anatole, why is I have no creativity not in your scum pile?

?
This looks like a leading question with the implication that he should be in said scum pile

-b

I was interested in Anatole's reasoning, since his scum pile consisted of people putting badly-reasoned votes on me, and Anatole's list of people putting badly-reasoned votes on me also included IHNC.
Also, wouldn't call the question leading. Leading would be, "shouldn't IHNC be in your scum pile?" or something like that.

that's not necessarily why I am scumreading mara or lissa

[The Fonz]

Non-mobile net gone again. Just wanna note, my vote remains on 4T partly because no one else sticks out ATM, partly because of the way he's continued to play since. Will elaborate tomorrow when I have time and a keyboard.

[Baboon Pride]

I don't feel compelled to point out the fourth vote is RVS by Fonz and one of his three total posts

I'm not asking you to deconstruct the wagon. I'm asking you to deconstruct the argument that 4T is scum. I don't care what you think of the players who agree.

I more or less pointed out that your reasons for voting him were shit in my above post. It's not my job to show that he is town, just that he's not the scummiest option to vote. The burden of proof if on the 4t wagon and none of the cases are remotely convincing.

You've done no such thing. All you said that I was attacking the playstyle and not his alignment and I'm not...?

Pushing an easy target isn't a playstyle quirk
Realizing that you could be doing an OMGUS, and keeping yourself from doing so isn't a playstyle quirk
Proactivity is generally towny. I note he lacked that
Reactivity is generally scummy. I noted that the majority of his posts were reactive

where is the playstyle bash?

[Baboon Pride]

I am sucking up to people I have experience with, don't you know?

in anycase, I never said I liked Fonz post, but I can defintely see where he is coming from, and it is something I can expect another person of relative experience of this game to get. Especially on this site. Lissa's post can be construed in many ways, and it's more about what's not there, than what is there.

Since when do you suck up to me Mara? Why not Bork? (but seriously, hey, long time no see)

Damn this game is moving fast. Back after work.

You're prettier!

and Bork has a wife.

I'd still like your vote, though. I don't even care if you're actually scum ATM, and if you are I might give you some town-cred for bussing anyhow.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't feel compelled to point out the fourth vote is RVS by Fonz and one of his three total posts

I'm not asking you to deconstruct the wagon. I'm asking you to deconstruct the argument that 4T is scum. I don't care what you think of the players who agree.

I more or less pointed out that your reasons for voting him were shit in my above post. It's not my job to show that he is town, just that he's not the scummiest option to vote. The burden of proof if on the 4t wagon and none of the cases are remotely convincing.

You've done no such thing. All you said that I was attacking the playstyle and not his alignment and I'm not...?

Pushing an easy target isn't a playstyle quirk
Realizing that you could be doing an OMGUS, and keeping yourself from doing so isn't a playstyle quirk
Proactivity is generally towny. I note he lacked that
Reactivity is generally scummy. I noted that the majority of his posts were reactive

where is the playstyle bash?

The argument about his proactivity came across to me as criticizing his playstyle with "I do this, you didn't so you are scum" reasoning. You make the point that he asks for help and you DEMAND it like that is an inherently towny trait. That came across as just aggressive bullshitting to me. I see what you're saying more with the proactivity vs. reactivity tautology spelled out for a simpleton like me.

You're still operating with the "generally" modifier and that's a pretty big generally. I think all of us have seen plenty of aggressive/proactive scum and passive/reactive townies. The easy target thing is a salient point.

[gossamer wings]

Did you take the info from off-5 at face value knowing that he has a tendency for gambiting?

I wasn't sure if he was telling the truth. Why?

Falcon said that he wasn't sure why you were taking him at face value after having just played a game with him where he gambitted and fake-claimed extensively.

My concern is that you took it as face value because you believed he was telling the truth. A couple years ago in Abarat II, MagnaofIllusion fake claimed informed townie and claimed that one of three people were scum. He had just picked three players he particularly didn't like playing with, but one of those slots was actually mafia, and while other people were incredulous because the claim seemed like a lie and too convenient, the scum in that group took it seriously. To him, he was telling the truth because he was, in fact, mafia.

So if you know that 5-off is a fake claimer and gambitter, when he said the mod informed him that there was scum in the neighborhood, taking it as face value could be an indicator of your alignment as I would think you would be more likely to believe he was lying if you didn't know that he was technically telling the truth.

Without being in the neighborhood and seeing how6 the reactions came in, I can't judge how that played out for myself, but it was Falcon's concern regarding it.

~~~~~

In other news: I should actually read the game tonight unless I fall asleep :/

[FourTrouble]

Tammy, I understand your concern but it's misplaced. If you think about it, I'd be much more distrustful of 5-off if I were mafia and he town (i.e. I wouldn't trust a word he says about claims/setup). But as town, I didn't really think about whether he was lying as town. I considered the possibility he was scum but that was the extent of my distrust. If you think about it, that's arguably a town-tell on my part.

[FourTrouble]

The easy target thing is a salient point.

Just because someone is an easy target -- and apparently that's what I have no creativity is -- doesn't mean pushing the easy target is scummy. How is Baboon's easy target point salient?

[FourTrouble]

@ FT, I think it is entirely possible 5-Off is gambiting.

~ F-16 (I'll sign my posts if we're both online to avoid confusion)

F-16, what's the scum benefit to that sort of gambit? Town-cred? You know me well enough to know that I don't care about town-cred as either town or mafia, so there's certainly no personal motivation if that's the case.

Tammy, your recent post made me think of this. I didn't realize this at the time, but from what you just said, F-16 was thinking 5-Off was gambiting as town. But 5-Off interprets F-16's speculation to mean F-16 suspects him. Which suggests 5-Off is reading F-16's post from a non-town perspective.

[Baboon Pride]

I'd be much more distrustful of 5-off if I were mafia and he town (i.e. I wouldn't trust a word he says about claims/setup)

0/10.

[FourTrouble]

Given the lack of support for lynching I have no creativity, gonna see where this goes:

Vote: 5-Off

[FourTrouble]

I'm also waiting on someone to interrogate Baboon since they're ignoring my questions. Anyone willing to ask them my questions for me?

[Baboon Pride]

If I'm ignoring any questions, it's because I assumed Mara answered them.

Why are you voting 5-Off? Do you think he made up the info?

[Baboon Pride]

I mean I get what 384 is trying to say I think, I just don't quite get how you get from A to B there.

[gossamer wings]

@ FT, I think it is entirely possible 5-Off is gambiting.

~ F-16 (I'll sign my posts if we're both online to avoid confusion)

F-16, what's the scum benefit to that sort of gambit? Town-cred? You know me well enough to know that I don't care about town-cred as either town or mafia, so there's certainly no personal motivation if that's the case.

Tammy, your recent post made me think of this. I didn't realize this at the time, but from what you just said, F-16 was thinking 5-Off was gambiting as town. But 5-Off interprets F-16's speculation to mean F-16 suspects him. Which suggests 5-Off is reading F-16's post from a non-town perspective.

I'll probably let falcon actually rend to this cuz I don't fully understand it, but falcon didn't say what he thought 5-offs alignment was. He said that he has a history of gambiting as town, is pretty good as scum, and didn't understand why you seemed to take it at face value knowing he's a gambitter. He is also having trouble believing the mod gave him that info, unless it's the bastard element. He hasn't told me what he thinks either of you are though.

[Nashville Dreams]

gossamer wings(F-16_Fighting_Falcon+Tammy)
-the fact tammy is going on about how she must be town is irking me i know she does it anyway but it feels off

She usually does it with a certain tone as town Tammy and scum Tammy. It annoys a lot of people, but it's mostly how she goes about it she becomes transparent.

Also you are wrong with your hydra guess.

~*~M

[gossamer wings]

gossamer wings(F-16_Fighting_Falcon+Tammy)
-the fact tammy is going on about how she must be town is irking me i know she does it anyway but it feels off

She usually does it with a certain tone as town Tammy and scum Tammy. It annoys a lot of people, but it's mostly how she goes about it she becomes transparent.

Also you are wrong with your hydra guess.

~*~M

This is true!

[gossamer wings]

Tammy, F-16, what do you make of the following:

and, as much as you are willing to push us for being the probable scum within the neighborhood, you very quickly back down from it, and decide to push someone who, generally is an easier target to get lynched.

I thought I had pushed I have no creativity prior to Baboon. So... I don't think I backed down from anything, did I? Which brings me to this:

also... the hidden omgus thing... it's legit, and the fact that you were scared to do a legit omgus, and tried to hide it with mashing us with fonz, a couple hours after I make it known that I think you have the potential to be scum is pretty amusing.

I'm scared? Or is that a narrative Baboon is building? I don't see how "fear" is read into my posts/behaviors? Is Baboon's narrative genuine or contrived? The argument that I'm afraid to OMGUS because I went after I have no creativity isn't very well thought out, right?

Also:

You question my 125 and you yourself, note that you havn't done much, whereas I have made my stances clear early game. Instead of asking people to work with me, I demand it to happen. I grab their attention and push the game forward, on my own voilition. You've done it as a reaction, and only as a reaction. lack of proactivity means a higher chance of you being scum.

Two things. First, I wasn't playing passively, or at least I thought I was active. Comparatively, I'm a lot more active than half the players in the game. I'm also not sure how "asking people to work with me" is passive or scummy? Second, is Baboon's analysis always this mechanical? The "I'm doing X, but you're not doing X, so you're probably scum" argument isn't very good.

Another thing I'll mostly let falcon talk with you about as I believe he'll want to interact with you to get a read on you, and I'll probably defer to him where you're concerned.

I think that some of the points brought against you aren't very strong; however what I am feeling stronger and stronger as I read is that baboon pride is town.

[Baboon Pride]

@ FT, I think it is entirely possible 5-Off is gambiting.

~ F-16 (I'll sign my posts if we're both online to avoid confusion)

F-16, what's the scum benefit to that sort of gambit? Town-cred? You know me well enough to know that I don't care about town-cred as either town or mafia, so there's certainly no personal motivation if that's the case.

Tammy, your recent post made me think of this. I didn't realize this at the time, but from what you just said, F-16 was thinking 5-Off was gambiting as town. But 5-Off interprets F-16's speculation to mean F-16 suspects him. Which suggests 5-Off is reading F-16's post from a non-town perspective.

I'll probably let falcon actually rend to this cuz I don't fully understand it, but falcon didn't say what he thought 5-offs alignment was. He said that he has a history of gambiting as town, is pretty good as scum, and didn't understand why you seemed to take it at face value knowing he's a gambitter. He is also having trouble believing the mod gave him that info, unless it's the bastard element. He hasn't told me what he thinks either of you are though.

That was my initial reaction (Mara apparently thought it was silly of me not to accept it instantly though). When he continued to insist upon it over quite a few posts, I decided it might not be a gambit after all.

I'll be interested in hearing from Falcon on this.

[gossamer wings]

All right I read the game! I'm so proud of myself.

I have some thoughts on the baboon/FT stuff but going to hold onto it. I'd rather let falcon interact with four trouble organically and get a read there while talking with him about it before I say anything. I do think that baboon pride is town though.

Anatole - hi! You should start checking westeros boards as we're actually starting to play again. I don't get your scum read on baboon. Does knowing that it's Mara who played in time shift two change your perception at all? (Or did you already know that?)

I still think cutey shark is town and Nashville dreams. I'm actually a little flattered that they really just want to NAIL DOWN MY ALIGNMENT. I'm rather self-absorbed, and like that they seem to have read me and picked up on certain tells about me. I said last night it felt a bit prideful that they think they've picked up some of my tells and are trying to apply it here. It's just something I think is more likely to come from town. Also I'm a tone reader, so it's kinda kindred. I'm still gonna have fun with them, I'd like to lock elbows, skip through the park and sing happy

country

pop songs.

Leaning town on creativity. I actually like fonz's argument. Also another person I'm going to laugh at calling me scum. Lighten up. I'm having fun.

I think that fonz probably cursed out nati if he drew scum after not playing so long as I know he wasn't entirely happy to draw it in swagtown. That doesn't mean a whole lot to his alignment but it might inform his tone. I still need to check out swagtown to answer falcons question though.

Will talk to falcon later to see where he wants to move our vote.

[gossamer wings]

Oh I get you guys' reasoning on Lisa, and she seems fine enough, but I'm tentative with neighborhood reads and want to see more.

[gossamer wings]

Oh yeah, could potentially join the nugget train. Yeah bleah. Want to wait for falcon to weigh in on ft though.

[I have no creativity]

Okay, that reasoning makes sense, so long as we agree that I screw with peoples heads regardless of my affiliation. xD

I want this explained.

vote 5-off

I was reading though and on par with ant. I feel like their fight is TvT but if its SvT i would lean baboon.

Anything that someone needs from me atm, i just got back from work. Otherwise I am just gonna gloss over.

real quick:

random spec: if its 4 players in hood iirc, do you think it could be 2 towns, 1 scum, 1 neutral?

also im getting scumvibes from fonz, his exusec of stuff is starting to grate on me. ive seen scums pull this off one to many times

[5-Off]

I'm ready to watch I have no creativity hang. F-16, help me lynch 'em?

That's hilarious

So 5-off...

So 5-off what?

Also, how do I clear my quote button? Every time I press it, it automatically adds everything I've previously quoted.

Also, what is pedit?

Was asking if you were gambitting. You've since stated you're not.
Too tired to understand your quote thing.
Preview edit. If something gets posted in between you starting a post and hitting submit, it lets you edit your post before submitting again.

And I still state that I was not gambiting.