[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[mith]

If that were the case, optimal play for town would be to lynch one of the people clogging the thread. (If they end up with a no lynch day 1, shame on them - the whole point of the setup is that much of their win chances come there.)

That said, the larger setups are more for FTF. I don't really expect many would want to play them on the forum (either it's over really quickly, or it takes forever!)

[mith]

Extrapolating Empking's Simple Mafia setup to larger setups (the Mafia Don dies night 2 unless another Mafia has been lynched):

9p: 2:7 (41%)
11p: 2:9 (50%)
13p: 2:11 (56%), 3:10 (27%)
15p: 3:12 (33%)
17p: 3:14 (37%)
19p: 3:16 (41%)
21p: 3:18 (44%)
23p: 3:20 (47%), 4:19 (29%)
25p: 3:22 (49%), 4:21 (32%)

(The even counts are in the middle percentage-wise of the odd counts surrounding them, but they don't make as much sense thematically - on day 2 it doesn't matter whether town or scum is lynched, because if they manage to lynch scum they have to no lynch after to restore parity, whereas the Mafia Don dying does that for them as well.)

[Nachomamma8]

If that were the case, optimal play for town would be to lynch one of the people clogging the thread. (If they end up with a no lynch day 1, shame on them - the whole point of the setup is that much of their win chances come there.)

That said, the larger setups are more for FTF. I don't really expect many would want to play them on the forum (either it's over really quickly, or it takes forever!)

I actually would like to see a larger vanilla setup on the forums.

[TeChNoWC]

Wait mith doesn't a setup like that just encourage town to policy lynch or lynch for lols rather than scumhunt? For D1 and D2 I mean

[Nachomamma8]

How so? I'd expect it would make people scumhunt more seriously since it's an instant win if they lynch scum on D1.

[Nachomamma8]

If that were the case, optimal play for town would be to lynch one of the people clogging the thread.

This was only brought up as a strategy after jingle talked about optimal scum strategy being spamming to inhibit discussion.

[mith]

I think TeChNoWC was talking about the "Simple" setup.

Short Answer: No
Longer Answer: It doesn't

encourage

that behaviour. It does make it less punishing on town to mislynch the first two days, sure. However, there is still an advantage to lynching scum day 1, vs. lynching scum day 2, vs. missing on both and the Don dying at night - each case lowers the scum count by one, but with different numbers of mislynches remaining.

I don't know that I personally would like playing this setup, I'm just looking into vanilla variants which allow for a greater ratio of scum to town.

[Jingle]

I think it would still be much easier to argue a policy lynch in that setup than in a more traditional setup (even a more traditional mountainous setup). It's not a matter of lynching scum being bad, but that you are less punished by policy lynching. Not that that is inherently bad or inherently good, but it would encourage lynching among players who would be perceived as as less helpful to town. I also think that wouldn't be as prevalent thing in FTF.

As far as these setups go for FTF, I think that the scalability and the simplicity are both powerful factors in their favor. I think all three of these would be good additions to the set-ups for the mafiascum decks, assuming that's feasible.

[beastcharizard]

That first set-up seems really interesting.

The revealed mafia would have to think alot of how to proceed about interacting with their scum mates. Not to mention the fact that when one is revealed a whole lot of analysis will happen, just like when mafia flips.

[mith]

The Coalition

5 Mafia Goons
12 Vanilla Townies

Nightless. Each day, rather than lynching a single player, a coalition of half (rounded up) of the remaining players is formed. The remaining players are lynched, and their alignments are revealed simultaneously. So day 1, a coalition of 9 forms, and 8 are lynched. Day 2, the coalition is 5, and 4 are lynched. Day 3, the coalition is 3, and 2 are lynched. Day 4, the coalition is 2, and 1 is lynched. (There are lots of ways this could work, mechanically. I kinda like the idea of them having to actually all agree on a coalition and vote for it as a block, though voting in or out players one by one would work too. The key point is that no one is eliminated or revealed until the whole coalition is chosen.)

Balance-wise, it seems like it would be the same as a regular Nightless setup, but the town actually does slightly better as they effectively get more shots at getting out of "LyLo". For example:

2:3 Nightless
Probability of getting to 0:3 = 2/5*1/4 = 1/10 (EV 1)
Probability of getting to 1:2 = 2/5*3/4 = 3/10 (EV 1/3)
Probability of getting to 2:2 = 3/5 (EV 0)
1/10*1 + 3/10*1/3 = 1/5

2:3 Coalition
Probability of getting to 0:3 = 2/5*1/4 = 1/10 (EV 1)
Probability of getting to 1:2 = 2/5*3/4

+ 3/5*2/4

= 3/5 (EV 1/3)
Probability of getting to 2:1 = 3/5*2/4 = 3/10 (EV 0)
1/10*1 + 3/5*1/3 = 3/10

5:12 has an EV of 47% (vs. 41% for Nightless); 6:11 has an EV of 38% (vs. 29% for Nightless) and would be interesting too. For a smaller version, 3:6 has an EV of 40% (vs. 33% for Nightless).

[theslimer3]

One mafia, one warewolf, one seer, one cop, one survivor, one serial killer, two town neighbor doctors, 2 anti-party neighbor doctors

Game ends when all four doctors die (all lose) or when one party is left

[Aronis]

One mafia, one warewolf, one seer, one cop, one survivor, one serial killer, two town neighbor doctors, 2 anti-party neighbor doctors

Game ends when all four doctors die (all lose) or when one party is left

What are anti party doctors?

[theslimer3]

They belong to their own faction. Their goal is to be the only two around I guess

[callforjudgement]

"Neighbour" is a really awful description of that. They're basically just a scumgroup with no kill, and bulletproof until one dies (they have no incentive to do anything with their night action but protect each other forever).

[theslimer3]

"Neighbour" is a really awful description of that. They're basically just a scumgroup with no kill, and bulletproof until one dies (they have no incentive to do anything with their night action but protect each other forever).

Yeah that's the point. That's why the wincon is to be the last faction standing. The only twist is that they have to WiFoM who to bp

[theslimer3]

Now that I think of it, that'd be one hell of a marathon game if i shall say do

[ika]

the just bp each ohter in doc chain or all docs claim and bp chian them themlfs

[theslimer3]

There's 3 killing factions and a survivor. Claiming doc would actually be anti... Antigame. All doctors are pretty much an obstical to victory unless you're town (1/4),

And the neighbor doctors are a group protect, not individual.


I'm starting to think maybe I should have the two role investigators as their own seperate faction as well. It'll be a battle royal. Yep making this a marathon. Who's in?

[Wake1]

Good evening, everyone.

I've been modding a Fire and Ice Mafia variant offsite.

My goal is to create a large, Open game expanding on those dynamics. I can't mention the original Setup here because it's ongoing. Here's an unpolished pitch for the expanded idea:

Please don't dash my idea, guys. I'd really like to see this happen.





Town Cop
Town Doctor
Town Tracker
Town Watcher
Town 1-Shot PGO
VT (1-Shot Fireproof)
VT (1-Shot Iceproof)
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
Ice Mafia Cop
Ice Mafia Goon
Ice Mafia Goon
Fire Mafia Cop
Fire Mafia Goon
Fire Mafia Goon

*21 players
*If Fire and Ice target the same player, that player won't die. Really makes the two rival teams think.
*They'd BOTH have Daytalk. That's a must. Would 2 Masons be too overpowered?
*If Fire or Ice target their rival faction with a Night Kill, it doesn't happen. Instead, that Scum player will know the target is enemy Scum. Like a Cop investigation.


I need some help balancing this.

The Mafia Cops are a boon for Town assuming the real Town Cop keeps quiet. During the Night there's the chance they'll Cop an enemy Scum. Also if Scum hit enemy Scum, that'll be less Townies dying and more Scumhunting between Scum. I need some sort of role that'll make it so Scum have to feign Scumhunting, too. Scum has to feign hard at being innocent, too, when running enemy Scum up the gallows, or else Town will suspect you simply tried to NK your enemy last Night. The PGO I added on a whim, and am not sure if it helps in balancing. I was originally thinking just a Cop and Doc on Town's side, but I don't know if that'd tilt the game too much in Scum's favor.

I'm wanting to create a VT that's 1-Shot Iceproof and 1-Shot Fireproof. It wouldn't be too safe for Townies to claim that, because the rest of the Town could simply think they're Scum, because Scum can't be NK'd. I probably need more, subtle info-gathering roles.

[BBmolla]

PGO claims day 1
Cop claims day 1
Doc protects Cop night 1
Watcher watches Cop night 1
Watcher finds out who Doc is and watches them night 2

Do the 1-shot bp townies know they are 1-shot bp?

[Wake1]

Oh, I forgot to mention the Cop was Macho.

Same with the 1-Shot Elemental BPVTs

Townies would know they're 1-Shot BP.

[ika]

even being macho is not ideal by the fire+ice cancle each other attack.

and even then, it just goes watcher on cop and you have 1-2 goons outed as well as a possible doc found to watch

ill prob have better imput later

[Wake1]

I'll nix the Watcher, then.

If Cop goes I'll need 2 or so subtle roles.

[Wake1]

Town Macho Cop
Town Doctor
Town Tracker
Town 1-Shot PGO
Macho VT (1-Shot Fireproof)
Macho VT (1-Shot Iceproof)
Macho VT (1-Shot Fireproof; 1-Shot Iceproof)
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT
VT

Ice Mafia Cop
Ice Mafia Goon
Ice Mafia Goon

Fire Mafia Cop
Fire Mafia Goon
Fire Mafia Goon

[Wake1]

Maybe one Town Roleblocker?