Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[Cutty Shark]

asking Baboon to explain something that he'd clearly worded in such a way as to imply that discussion of it would be anti-town

Fonz, I think this is a particular thing that makes FT more town, not less.

Also if scum turn out to have daytalk you should be getting a negative connection between FT and me here.

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

I basically mislynch 100% of my games day 1 so I'm trying to reign that in a bit and focus on townreads early. I'm pretty happy with these townreads though.

Feels like a cop out man. I was wrong before => any scumhunting I might do D1 is likely going to be fruitless?

Like I'm partially townhunting too. Townhunting is awesome. It's not mutually exclusive with scumhunting.

You obviously are emitting a scumread on Baboon and have mentioned the cases on FT were bad. You were able to make these posts right as you came in. Why the cold feet now?

-b

The case on FT is bad. Doesn't mean I'm townreading him.

And yeah, I am scumreading mara but I'm realizing my evidence is pretty shit for it. Like I said, I'm pretty bad day one. I say this pretty much every game I play because I inevitably hit town day one and kick it into gear after a flip.

[FourTrouble]

Cutty, what do you mean I'm trying to appease people? Which posts? I'm not doubting you think that but I'm curious what a coming off that way.

[gossamer wings]

Scum have day talk.

[Cutty Shark]

Cutty, what do you mean I'm trying to appease people? Which posts? I'm not doubting you think that but I'm curious what a coming off that way.

Was unsure how seriously you were taking my #367 was the root of that.

Otherwise rereading your ISO that point was probably a little unfair of me to make.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

Scum have day talk.

Because neighborhood does?

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

Rules of Engagement


17. Daytalk is enabled for all factions by default.

[Cutty Shark]

I always fucking miss that shit

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

yeah, I didn't think to look until she said that

[Cutty Shark]

Mainly cause cabd and nat (now) are the only ones who ever put that there

-b

[FourTrouble]

I'm gonna be busy the next two days, so you're gonna see a drop on activity. To let you guys know where I'm at, Baboon is still scum though I can see the bits of "town" that is causing the town-reads. But I don't see them outweighing the problems. When I have time, going to be looking over Anatole/Nashville/IHNC. Of the players who have posted enough to read, they're the ones not pushing anything forard. I'm glad to see Cutty picking up on Anatole. I've been thinking of saying something but held off cause I didn't want to derail any hope of Baboon's lynch. But I've been concerned about Anatole's lack of conviction re: me or Baboon. He doesn't want to call me town but he wants to defend me + vote Baboon, who apparently he doesn't actually think is town. That might be a playstyle thing, not sure, but I could see him distancing/bussing Baboon. Or if Baboon is town, trying to create two central wagons on town (me and Baboon). I have to reread more carefully when I have time though. Nashville is null to me -- I understood what he was saying about Tammy though I don't agree with his analysis. I've noticed lack of comment on much outside Tammy, though they seem to think I'm town and Baboon is town. I like that, if Baboon is actually town, since scum would want to encourage both those wagons. On the other hand, his analysis is based on locating that desire in others, which arguably cuts the other way. Again, going to need to reread more carefully when I have a chance.

For the rest of folks, I agree with Fonz as probably town. I don't know Tammy as well as you guys (never seen her scumgame for comparison) but I'm working on my F-16 read, leaning town so far. Cutty is also probably town. Lissa, we all agree is town. Waiting on Flubber's replacement before making any PoE determinations there. Would also like to see more from Honey.

[gossamer wings]

FT, I don't think Mara as scum would post 301 (and Tammy agrees based on past games with Mara) because it involves putting herself out there and assuming responsibility for a lynch. And if you do flip town, she'd look bad for strongarming a lynch through as opposed to go with someone that everyone agrees is town. Even if people still townread her, it would be more difficult for her to have influence and credibility from there on out. Doing it on D1 is even more suboptimal for scum in the long run since there are a lot more days she needs to get though in order to win. On the other hand, her certainty makes sense if she genuinely believes she has something and is unable to explain it beyond it being a gut feeling.

~~~

As for specific posts from

NY169 with Mara as town

:

Here's Mara pushing on town-me

Here's Mara pushing me with even weaker reasoning

Here's Mara trying to gather more votes

Here's Mara pushing with fairly weak reasoning

Here's Mara pointing to her ISO as proof that I'm scum

Here's Mara's "case" on me

To add to that, here's Mara's defense of scum-Nacho, I'm adding this part to show how Mara hides her reasoning, has gut reads and then provides reasoning to fill those reads.

~~~

In this game, her conviction feels genuine in Post 317, even some of the language is similar to NY169, Post 443, her push to get you lynched in Post 498, putting herself out there in Post 505, her explanation of how she thinks in Post 533. I've only played one game with Mara as scum and I don't remember her making any pushes with conviction. I thought her partner looked town but wasn't paying attention to her. Tammy feels that she postures more as scum and I think she doesn't make the kind of all-or-nothing pushes she's made here. You make a good point on Ceph. It is still possible it was a poorly thought-out plan though. I was commenting to Tammy that one of their plans really wasn't thought out well at all. I'll talk about it this a little later though.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

That was in response to FT's post a couple of pages ago btw. I'm starting page 28 now.

~ F-16

[Cutty Shark]

Attention bork + plebs
SleepyKrew announcement
Not feeling well. Not abandoning you. Please don't become passive. Don't ever become passive.

[Cutty Shark]

Also I wonder if anyone else noticed that Csareo replaced Flubber

[gossamer wings]

Fonz, I can logically follow why you would suspect FT but I don't agree with your underlying idea that town would always act in a way you feel is optimal. For instance, you question Cutty Shark on keeping their vote on someone who replaced out. You also say that town need to prioritize scumreads and that not doing so is scummy. You also provide justification for why town players must provide reasoning for their reads. My problem is that you are basing your scumreads on what is the optimal play for town rather than what town do on average. Town don't always provide cases (Chamber), town don't always prioritize scumreads. Town don't always keep their votes on their biggest suspects. I've read your articles and comments in MD as to why it is beneficial for town to play a certain way. I just don't agree with it. For instance I vote when and how I want, sometimes try to find entire scumteams, and sometimes provide naked reads lists. I can buy that you as town genuinely believe in your suspicion but I also that you as scum would try to find things that townies do that are sub-optimal and unintentionally support a scum wincon more than a town one and push on those things and I'm undecided as to which it is right now.

~ F-16

[FourTrouble]

I'll take a look at those posts when I get a chance, F-16.

[gossamer wings]

Sure. And why is Fonz town?

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

I'm sorry to continue to harp on this but if I did have a conversation with one of their heads about how I scum hunt nacho and they were using it to try to read me, why wouldn't they say "hey Tammy you once said x about how you read nacho, in post # you did x which is similar" except they didn't which looks like they're not actually trying to read me. And considering how I read nacho is so vague sand untenable that I have a hard time understanding it I can't fathom someone using a convo to try to read me.

What it more feels like is they know I'm easy to distract and piss off (I'm trying to change this but I suck at it.). So they decided they would pick at me and when I at first found it amusing and joked in return they decided to try other tactics that would get me pissed off and distracted.

[FourTrouble]

Sure. And why is Fonz town?

~ F-16

His question confirming Lissa, his question in 626, his concern re: my interaction with 5-Off (which is wrong but understandable), and 683 had town notes (specifically his read on IHNC, his hesitance to read you guys as town based on your competence as scum, which I also relate to, and his self-checking re: Honey). Obviously, not the strongest read, as there are things about him bothering me. He hasn't committed strongly to a lot of positions, but I can also understand that feeling, since I'm having a tough time getting strong reads on most players as well. The misreading and blurring things together bothered me for a second, but it really could come from town or scum, as it was probably unintentional, regardless of alignment.

[FourTrouble]

F-16, if not Baboon, who should we lynch?

[Nashville Dreams]

Well I said he had a lot of potential
He was only misunderstood
You know he didn't really mean to treat me so bad
He wanted to be good
And I swore one day I would tame him
Even though he loved to run hog wild
Just call me Cleopatra everybody, 'cause I'm the Queen of Denial

Sk that's for you.^

@Tammy:

I want to answer your questions and I will once I'm home, but right now I can't respond to your multiple of posts that are pointed at me. Yes as I said I been using tone lately to read the hell out of you and I keep getting mixed feelings for your tones in this game. Your comment as my partner describes feels more like the game where you went after nacho/cabd in HB because nacho made a comment that pinged you early Day 1. That's exactly what you did to my partner here, but part of it threw me back because I don't think I have ever heard you use that. Which is why when I get some time I'm going to search on you because I want to know if you have done it in past games because I don't ever remember you making a comment to that. It comes off as too stand-off ish, too cocky almost which I have seen you have heated arguments, but this one is just never something I have seen out of you in it's own way.

Also I'm trying to actively get a read on F-16, but I think my view on him is always going to be clouded from Wicked.

I'm currently working to figuring out those who I have played with prior and then work the way down the line because I rather work with someone whom I know and trust to be town rather than work with a newer player whom I have no skill in reading and be totally blindsided.

~M

[Nashville Dreams]

uh fixed.

Which is why when I get some time I'm going to search on you because I want to know if you have done it in past games because I don't ever remember you making a comment to that. It comes off as too stand-off ish, too cocky almost which I have never seen you be when have heated arguments, but this one is just never something I have seen out of you in it's own way.

[Nashville Dreams]

Anyways I'm going to stop engaging with you once I comment to your posts because you replacing out is the last thing I want. It's not something I want to happen again especially when you are a good scum hunter when you can get past the blinders which you sometimes get.

~m

[Cutty Shark]

I'm currently working to figuring out those who I have played with prior and then work the way down the line because I rather work with someone whom I know and trust to be town rather than work with a newer player whom I have no skill in reading and be totally blindsided.

I see no evidence that you actually feel this way considering you've pretty much ignored me the whole game

-b