Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[gossamer wings]

Trustworthy is me.

One of your heads said they synced up and I was a town read.

The next day, the non italics head came in and voted me for the mind numbingly stupid reason of buddying baboon pride and egging them on to vote ft. Then started hounding me. That makes no sense whatsoever. None. Not at all. The only way that barrage of crap makes sense is that you guys are trying to reaction test me or make it look like you are because I don't buy that suspicion at all.

Maybe i'm completely wrong on who you are then. Because yeah I don't buy your interaction with me at all with who I think you've crumbed. Either you're scum or you're not who I think you are.

[Nashville Dreams]

Yes thank you Cephrawr. I already said that it was unreasonable on my part and I apologized, but please do continue to parrot.

~M

[Baboon Pride]

Rude

[gossamer wings]

I throw my hands up. I don't know who they are. The crumbs fit, the knowledge of some games fit, the grammatical structure fits, but the tone doesn't. The "I need to interact with you to get a non-meta-tone read" doesn't fit, that sounds tacked on and false.

So, I don't know who it is.

Whatever.

[Nashville Dreams]

Trustworthy is me.

One of your heads said they synced up and I was a town read.

The next day, the non italics head came in and voted me for the mind numbingly stupid reason of buddying baboon pride and egging them on to vote ft. Then started hounding me. That makes no sense whatsoever. None. Not at all. The only way that barrage of crap makes sense is that you guys are trying to reaction test me or make it look like you are because I don't buy that suspicion at all.

Maybe i'm completely wrong on who you are then. Because yeah I don't buy your interaction with me at all with who I think you've crumbed. Either you're scum or you're not who I think you are.

I read it. I got the messages why she did it on skype. I commented on skype where I saw what she saw, but didn't necessarily agree with it the whole lot of the time because I was townreading you for other things. It's mostly gut, experience and meta and that's really hard for anyone to take full value when I vaguely explained it.

My other head has the town-trait to have her emotions take the best of her in terms of scum reading someone. It's kind of like latching onto it and not letting go. (sorry other head you didn't respond to me, but don't take this as an insult<33)

The reason why I brought up the Nacho thing is because of this. The way the thing she saw was similar to how you nailed Nacho in HB. I was trying to give you a parallel example reason of why she's scum reading you. Whether or not it's right or wrong that's what it's boiling down too. Basically the way nacho worded, "Have a scum lynch ready for me when I get back" felt similar to the same tone has "Nice scum hunting advice". Both felt off for both of your personalities and it took her back and it felt scummy to her (yours).

IDK maybe I'm completely off base on you think I am. At this point I was discussing with other head I might just out myself because this is causing too much bullshit and unneeded drama in the thread. I was for some reason under the impression that Mara might have caught onto earlier who I was for reaching out to me like she did, but I might be delirious.

~M

[gossamer wings]

I was frustrated with fourtrouble that he basically told me I was scumhunting wrong. That whole bit about looking for intent being overrated, which I happen to find rather useful, not that I get it right all the time. And while I was trying to tell him why I thought Baboon was town, which goes to what I expect from Mara as town v scum, he pretty much disregarded to tell me that I was doing it wrong. And that I should be doing it his way, which then felt like leading me to his conclusion and disregarding mine.

The tone couldn't be more dissimilar.

[gossamer wings]

but you didn't give me a parallel reason, you were vague. You didn't even say what post you thought a scum slip was, you danced around that. So how can I even respond to that and explain it when I don't know what you're talking about.

[Nashville Dreams]

but you didn't give me a parallel reason, you were vague. You didn't even say what post you thought a scum slip was, you danced around that. So how can I even respond to that and explain it when I don't know what you're talking about.

Because I forgot whether or not you told me to keep it hush hush when we were discussing it during the game or not. I don't believe I have the chatlogs on the computer I'm at because I can't remember if I was using what computer during that game. I think we were phone skyping, but I lost all of my messages there too. (also not to mention scrolling through ~~~months of old skype logs).

~M

[gossamer wings]

But you didn't even tell me what post of mine you thought was a scum slip. And I'm not sure why you would even bring up a half conversation anyway, and then not expect me to get even more frustrated because the conversation became one sided and unfair. I was already dealing with what felt like a total misrepresentation of my posts, someone who was not reading my posts, and then being hounded which is the exact opposite way to get anything out of me.

I don't know what you expected from me.

I mean if you want to be a secret hydra fine, I have no problem with that, but I also don't think it's fair what both your heads are doing with regard to that. For example, using part of a conversation I had with you and not connecting it so I can explain it or even know what I'm doing. And the way your other head is taunting ika isn't really cool if you want to be a secret hydra either.

[gossamer wings]

And that post makes me think my initial guess was right, but then I'm still just left really confused at your interaction and tone.

[Nashville Dreams]

I thought it was quoted already. I'm pretty sure she did quote it.

She's trying to crumb to ika too. We aren't taunting anyone.

~M is for Mala. (btw, I think you probably deff know that from 907, but now that knowledge is public)

[gossamer wings]

Yeah, that's been my guess from earlier, I thought the fairy tale references might be that, and I've gone back and reread a couple of your games and your interaction with me and I'm still confused.

Your other head quoting my frustrated response to fourtrouble and calling it buddying and egging someone on (and then refusing to address the people who argued that point) and you coming in later to say that my scum slip reminded you of how I caught Nacho isn't exactly making it clear that you meant me saying nice scumhunting advice was similar to Nacho saying find me some scum when I get back. They're not even the same; I don't know how you expected me to translate that.

[Nashville Dreams]

*shugh*

yeah I was trying to reference something from OUAT, but country song wise. I think I know why my tone is off, but I'm just really stressed I think it might go away, but I will try to [retract] anything nasty in the future. We are down to two levelers at my job so the other leveler is in HS so she can only work 20 hours a week and can't go pass a certain limit a day. I'm basically taking up the bulk of the shifts and next week will be super hell for me as I'm working two 12 hour shifts and he's saying this might happen until we train new people.

Sorry. I was just saying the example of the tone doesn't at all feel like you and that's what pinged her hard really. It's not something she'd expect you to say as town.

~M

[Nashville Dreams]

Anyways, I can not stay up on my computer anymore. I'm going to bed, night everyone. I promise I'll be fully caught up/re-read and more thoughts and opinions around wednesday/thursday.

Sorry to anyone I offended. I really am sorry and I know I been throwing that word a lot lately, but I do mean it.

~M

[gossamer wings]

Never fear this just means your training in the many shades of Tammy's Town Tone (TM) is not complete.

[gossamer wings]

And I went back on my town read of you guys because you started freaking me out. I worried that you were capitalizing on the town read I was giving you for your interaction with me, then worried non italics was trying to cause a distraction when the earlier interaction didn't make me mad because yesterday's posts didn't make any sense, then when you brought up the nacho stuff I replayed all of our interactions and none of it made sense for anyone who knew why I read nacho as scum initially in that game, so then it felt like trying to use half information to call me scum without really drawing a line that I could even comprehend or defend against, and I couldn't figure out how all of that equaled town.

[Tammy]

Also the fact that they tried to crumb their identities to certain people who would in all probably be able to read them probably means they're town.

Falcon agrees with that and brought up a couple other points in their favor.

UNVOTE:

[gossamer wings]

Also the fact that they tried to crumb their identities to certain people who would in all probably be able to read them probably means they're town.

Falcon agrees with that and brought up a couple other points in their favor.

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

also *hug*

[Natirasha]

Vote Count 1.8

"Oh, so one of my clients revealed their true face? Good. I don't have to worry about that now."

Nashville Dreams(1):

Cutty Shark

Honey bee(0):

Cutty Shark(0):

FourTrouble(3):

Lissa, The Fonz, Baboon Pride

5-Off(0):

AnatoleKuragin(1):

i have no creativity

The Fonz(1):

Honey bee

i have no creativity(0):

gossamer wings(0):

Baboon Pride(2):

Anatole Kuragin, FourTrouble

Mr_Ree(0):

Csareo(1):

Nashville Dreams

Lissa(0):

Not Voting(4):

5-Off, Mr_Ree, Csareo, gossamer wings

With thirteen alive, it is seven to lynch.

(expired on 2014-09-13 16:00:00)

[Lissa]

Baboon, thank you for reminding me why I am townreading you. gossamer and Baboon, thank you for reminding me why I am scumreading Four. I'll go iso-find some more townish Baboon posts now. Reading Four's posts seems to have a strange tendency to sway me towards his viewpoint and often when I read others' posts about him I ask myself why. I'm wondering if that's worrisome or if I'm just being paranoid.

How did we remind you why you're scum reading four when we haven't even become comfortable with what we think his alignment is?

When you point out...

There is a line of posts there that I felt manipulated by in the same way I felt during Tales of You. The posts are different in approach but similar in how I felt in response (my immediate reaction to them was, "Baboon is 100% town," followed by, "wait, this is so fake, can't believe I got tricked by that").

Yeah, so, this is exactly targeted to make Tammy paranoid about me. There is no other purpose to this. Especially because I can't fathom what it could be talking about.

-Ceph

There is a line of posts there that I felt manipulated by in the same way I felt during Tales of You.

Actually, I'd like to know how exactly and from which posts in Tales of You, you felt manipulated by Ceph. You were townreading Fox/Hound before you flaked so I don't know what you are referring to.

~ F-16

stuff like this.

Looking through Baboon's iso now.

[Honey bee]

I still stand by my thinking but things have happened that probably make this discussion better for another day. Also this happened forever ago and I don't see any other things about you.

Also fonz if you think my arguments are shit you can just tell me why instead of just blowing me off. Calling someone a village idiot = usually to claim whether or not they're town or scum, not just as a side statement. And scum have done this to me before so excuse me.

5-off seems to have had not a lot of time for mafia too I guess? Please look at my questions to you when you get back. I haven't forgotten you.

My feelings after reading the thread is that the last few pages haven't made me like ak and csareo. Ak I have been perusing their iso and I haven't seen anywhere that they're actively pushing to find someone's alignment or directing their efforts anywhere else. Their vote is parked on baboon and the conviction that he finds about a few meta reads and one post is totally wrong to me. Ak do you have any other scum reads? And how do you feel about fonz's latest posts?

vote: Anatole kuragin

My prob with Csareo is that I am pretty sure they're not new to mafia.. if they were I could excuse this behavior. Csareo, if you thought that you could determine the power roles from the flavor, then why were you trying to force a mass flavor claim and out them too?
From an outguessing the mod point of view, I'm having trouble placing where this info would be useful. I can tell you whichever game you played that the entire game could be solved by a flavor game was a poor decision on the mod's part.

~M is for Mala

OH I THOUGHT SO. Hi mala :3
As far as I can remember, this is far away from your scum meta, so my feelings about you earlier are gone. But I wanna see your full reads post.

@ bork, f-16: as promised:

Spoiler:

So what do you guys think of EspressoJet saying "Good luck finding blue team"? Why do you think he picked blue team instead of red?

This post reads as a bit scummy to me. I didn't put any thought into which color I wrote, and it didn't even occur to me that it would matter. This feels like a stretch to out me as a Mafia, but at the same time distance yourself from the accusation by hiding it behind an open minded question.

FoS

Kept vote on himself while throwing an fos on someone else.

So far:

* Boon - town
* Molla - null (Due to a previous game, need to be more wary of my reads on him)
* Nespresso - null leaning town
* Mr Ree - null leaning mafia
* Rubicon - null leaning mafia
* Bert - nothing
* Honeybee - nothing
* ZZZXXXSSSDWECSSADFQWEASDF - nothing

All based off the pushing and prodding. They're pretty loose but hopefully this will generate some discussion.

UNVOTE:

I'd be quite happy to move out of RVS given what I've seen.

--

Mr Ree - post 39 appears like you're attempting to downplay a possible slip (I'd say almost protectively, but others also did the same so I am happy to say it isn't based on others responses), almost like you're setting a precedent for what should or shouldn't be read as a slip. Why?

Further to this, you seem very interested in the self vote of Nespressojet in 44 - this is curious to me. RVS is, or should be, fairly random. Why does the self vote grab your attention?

Rubi - in 28 you pick up on an assumed 'tell', but then get quite defensive of that in 51. Your focus then seems to shift almost seamlessly to Molla in 60 and 64 - why the rapid shift? Why not place more pressure on George Clooney (Nespresso)? I might be over reading here, but both your posts appear to be throwing mud, without actually pressuring them. Generating dirt on players that can be used later is... interesting.

Threw out a bunch of scum reads but just unvoted his rvs vote.

And thesp is null to me until he answers about his scum reads.

Sorry, I missed your question. Is this what you're referring to?

Thesp, I really don't care for town reads, is jake your only scum read?

I'm really not keen on Flames682. If he was still around, at this moment he'd be my scond choice for a lynch. (When he's around, we'll find out exactly where he ranks. At this point he needs to be replaced.) I think the play of BoroPhil and Boonskiies is terrible as well. While I can't imagine that all four of our lurkers/flakers (some of who are actively lurking) are scum, I definitely imagine they didn't want to get caught up in the me/Jake from State Farm tussle, and the poor play of the town lurkers/flakers has likely enabled scum lurking/flaking. I don't see scum playing like BoroPhil is playing, but to a greater extent I don't see

town

playing like BoroPhil has. (Same with Boonskiies, to a lesser extent.)

I like the pressure on BoroPhil. If there's no change in his behavior, I will gladly move my vote there to secure a lynch as needed.

I actually like the last several posts from Jake from State Farm.

Kept his vote on jake even after admitting that Jake was probably not scum.

I really don't understand this argument here. Whether or not RQS is a viable option for starting a game really has nothing to do with anyone's alignment. Neither is refusing to answer the questions (which is more like a tell of personality). Either way, arguing about RQS has been extremely unhelpful to anyone.

All the lying accusations feel really weak.. People forget, people don't read, it's natural. Lying to me is only scummy when it comes to interpreting reads or PR information of the current game.

And just so you know, I don't like meta arguments. Maybe you all feel differently, and that's fine. If you want to convince me of anything, try a different way.

That's all I'm going to say on theses subjects. Anyways..

I'm not really being hesistant, I'm just suffering from typical D1 apathy.

Can someone start a fight with someone?

Basically the first page was full of a whole series of rubbish reasoning. Also fluff. Lots of fluff. Scum love fluff.

Cheery is worrying me as he has voted for me. This could be simple paranoia.

First off, Borophil, you realize that the first page was RVS, right? If you really thought "rubbish reasoning and fluff" was scummy, why not just vote someone and make some progress.

Why did you ignore Cheery dog's question? You need to explain what that last comment meant. Also why are you voting jake? Because they want to be IC?

I am quite confused by this conversation and don't know what to say about it. Therefore,
I am going to just leave my vote where it is for now and may end up changing it.

If you don't understand what they're talking about, you didn't understand the case in the first place, and were just bandwagoning.
VOTE: TheGottemer
TheGottemer, Can you tell us your thinking about the game at the moment?

Jake, do you still believe is TheGottemer is scummy? I think you changed your mind.. so I want to know why.

Thesp, can you give us your current reads at the moment? If you have made reads on anyone else, I must have missed it.

Boonskies, what makes ashura voting you scummier than joining any other wagon? I mean there was plenty of other wagons to join at that time.

(me) Switched my vote to someone else even though I spend more of my time pressuring boro.
=17285&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]enomit iso
Enomis literally never pressures the person he's voting (or in this case bussing) and spends all of his efforts at the shiny hydra.
=19101#p4984698]Mala iso
Mala also ignores her vote target in order to pressure other players like jmo, leaving me to push the lynch instead (damn u mala :( ).

Anyways you get the point but the relation of your vote and your reads are very important. Townies move their vote naturally with their suspicions, but with scum you are at least somewhat aware or thinking about how your vote looks. And it's not a strategy per se, but instead just a mistake because scum don't know where's a safe place to keep their vote.

I seem to be having trouble accessing this site from my computer, is anyone else having problems?

[Lissa]

Looking through Baboon's iso now.

scratch that I'll do it in the morning. sorry, my brain sometimes likes to miss thins late at night so waiting is probably best.

[5-Off]

There are a lot of posts to catch up on but I'm dedicated to doing that tonight, starting right now. I'll post when I finish.

[5-Off]

Honey Bee, link me to the questions and I'll answer them right now. Otherwise I'm probably going to post after I read everything so as to not spam 30 train of consciousness posts.

[5-Off]

@ 5-off:
Why is day phase one useless? I get the sense that your posting is bidding your time which now makes sense, but I guess it's strange to me that a person who relies on gut would discount the first day (as people who usually do so rely on vc nk analysis, pr roles too). For reference, my gut is usually active very early before I even really think about the game.
Also, when is the time to start having reads?

Useless is perhaps a strong term. I believe that most DP1 analysis is not only useless for the town, but detrimental. Let me explain. DP1 is the point in the game when, barring crazy scenarios, you have the lowest scum:town ratio in the game. That means that you have the lowest statistical chance in the game to catch scum on DP1. Furthermore, you have the least information available to you that you will have the entire game, meaning that you are limited in increasing your chance of correctly lynching. That means that reads inevitably can't be "strong" on DP1, but people try to make "strong" reads and use "thorough" analysis anyway. Why is that? People make judgments based on their gut early in the DP, and that's fine. Some players have great guts. Mine didn't ping too much in the early stages of the game, but I'm also new to the site. He's my problem with DP1s. People then analyze those early reads and tidbits of "analysis" which is terrible for two reasons. First of all, you are taking reads that already had a low chance of being correct and then basing your reads on those reads, multiplying chances of being wrong, and you are creating reasoning that may not be true in order to have more "thorough analysis." I like to think that the mafia wouldn't make errors on DP1 if they were good as any errors would inherently be unforced, and that leads towns that try their damnedest on DP1 to catch scum to shooting themselves in the foot.

For example, I saw Baboon's name mentioned by Lissa on the last page of this thread, and a quote with FT's name in it. The conflict between FT and Baboon is still going on, and either you guys have been repeating yourselves, our you've been layering analysis onto already poor arguments. From what I've read up to when I was last online, my gut said Baboon. Reading 549 right now throws out some major flags. So my gut reads thus far are that FT is probably town, Baboon might be scum, and Nashville might be scum, but they aren't "solid" reads and I don't expect my DP1 reads to be "solid" at any point in the game. I hope that makes sense.