Mini 1602: Game Over

[Aneninen]

K so as far as I can tell, BPC was the probable bodyguard target. If nobody disagrees that probably means he's off the table, not that I was scumreading him anyway.

Could you back this statement with some quotes?

By the way, I too think that DeasVail wasn't the original target. There are a couple of players who have been townread by most – or even: all – of us. The scums might have tried to shoot one of them.

[ZZZX]

Well You can force me to post by making the time become a weekend

thats... about it.

so yea wait for le weekend.

[phokdapolees]

Why replace into a game if you're gonna be V/LA for two weeks straight

[implosion]

Well You can force me to post by making the time become a weekend

thats... about it.

so yea wait for le weekend.

This is not exactly the most motivating reason i've ever seen to unvote someone

[sthar8]

Could you back this statement with some quotes?

By the way, I too think that DeasVail wasn't the original target. There are a couple of players who have been townread by most – or even: all – of us. The scums might have tried to shoot one of them.

629 and 631

@ implosion- the assumptions on which my logic is based are:
A. DV is a competent player
B. A successful bodyguard with announced target is slighty stronger than a tracker innocent (and also a good thing)
C. The safest and strongest method of crumbing a bodyguard is by announcing a townread on the target

It is probable that DV protected BPC. I don't believe BPC was a bad scumkill yesterday (unless there's something I'm missing?)

and with the last page, I'm happy to
VOTE: phok

[phokdapolees]

Townread =/= bodyguard target

[AGar]

Beep boop.

Work + poor life choices (read: tequila) mean this game gets my attention later tonight when I'm back from work.

[Malakittens]

Prod until tomorrow

[implosion]

A. DV is a competent player

This does not imply that he crumbed a bodyguard target.

[implosion]

Also there are better ways to crumb, i.e. use language that would obviously be a crumb but only in retrospect. Or use very, very strong language immediately before the day ends. Something like "Yeah. This day has 100% convinced me that BPC is town." as his last post of the day after the hammer. I think that would be pretty good as a crumb. A general townread on someone is a bad crumb because it is safe, but it is not strong, i.e. there is no good way to tell that it is a crumb rather than a generic townread.

[AGar]

Trying to figure out who DV protected or if he was the scumkill is dumb.

I'm all for NK analysis but this is real dumb. Like, you just don't know. So let's stop, maybe?

In other news, I do like the ZZZX wagon (and I'm sad I relented on chaos yesterday) but I really want to do a solid re-read before I actually lay a vote because work + looming move has kept me fairly preoccupied and I'm not 100% up to speed on this game. I feel like reading over it earlier I was still missing shit. I only work 1 job tomorrow and Thursday so I should actually be my usual spectacular and fantastic self then.

@Phok

Ok so you think sthar8's reasoning is dumb and you think ZZZX is an easy mislynch. Who da scumz bruh?

@notscience

You're replacing a fairly respected slot, don't let us down! Who da scumz bruh?

@sthar8

Who da scumz bruh?

I really just have no clue where any of the three of you lie and that bugs me too much. Let's fix this!

[sthar8]

phok, obviously. the whole point of speculating on the nk was to see who would freak out at an attempt to narrow the lynch pool.

that's scummy as hell.

[AGar]

phok, obviously. the whole point of speculating on the nk was to see who would freak out at an attempt to narrow the lynch pool.

that's scummy as hell.

[sthar8]

i mean, you could also just iso the mod and look at his voting record

but whatever, keep on pushing that lurker wagon. You seem super invested and clearly know what you're doing.

[Aneninen]

Could you back this statement with some quotes?

629 and 631

@ implosion- the assumptions on which my logic is based are:
A. DV is a competent player
B. A successful bodyguard with announced target is slighty stronger than a tracker innocent (and also a good thing)
C. The safest and strongest method of crumbing a bodyguard is by announcing a townread on the target

It is probable that DV protected BPC. I don't believe BPC was a bad scumkill yesterday (unless there's something I'm missing?)

I'm still not convinced though, it can't be ruled out that the scums wanted to kill BPC.
Or – referring to your later posts – was this a reaction test?

Also, I'm going to read Day2 again. Somehow I can feel in my veins that we're skimming over something important. Someone whom we should consider obv-town posted something and we've been ignoring that. (I know it sounds like mystic-fluff now but this is a reminder for myself.)

[phokdapolees]

So I was "freaking out" because I wanted you to provide solid reasoning for why you thought it was a bodyguard attempt and not just a scum NK on DV? Seeing as to how you still have not provided anything convincing (once again, townread =/= bodyguard target) it seems to me like you're just trying to clear BPC with no real substance behind it.

[sthar8]

A. DV is a competent player

This does not imply that he crumbed a bodyguard target.

It does when combined with the other two premises.

Also there are better ways to crumb, i.e. use language that would obviously be a crumb but only in retrospect.

Provide examples.

Or use very, very strong language immediately before the day ends.

That's exactly what he did. His last expressed townread was "pretty sure BPC is town" and then an afterthought post justifying why. After that he spent every post trying to work out the lynch compromise, and he certainly wasn't on in twilight.

I'm still not convinced though, it can't be ruled out that the scums wanted to kill BPC.
Or – referring to your later posts – was this a reaction test?

I think the scum tried to shoot BPC, but DV was protecting him. I think that's a pretty decent indicator that BPC is likely town, and even though it doesn't

really

clear him I think he's playing town enough that I'm not going to be voting him in any foreseeable future.

I don't like the term 'reaction test,' but I was also absolutely making noise on this topic hoping for opposition. Opposition to POE after a scumflip is a pretty strong scumtell.

So I was "freaking out" because I wanted you to provide solid reasoning for why you thought it was a bodyguard attempt and not just a scum NK on DV? Seeing as to how you still have not provided anything convincing (once again, townread =/= bodyguard target) it seems to me like you're just trying to clear BPC with no real substance behind it.

Given your egregious conflation wrt scumtargets, I'm not interested in debating this with you. Your logic is either crap or you're scum. I don't really care if you are convinced.

[notscience]

I'll be here tonight.

[BipolarChemist]

(don't hate me prod dodge super tired TAing until 9 tonight saw a concert last night excuses excuses black keys are amazing)

[implosion]

Provide examples.

I did, at least one. I can't really provide examples from real games because I've never seen a bodyguard crumb their target. Which is funny because I've seen some pretty damn competent players play bodyguard (of course, the main example I can think of of this was mostly lost to the crash, it's here if you're interested, retrospective was a bodyguard).

That's exactly what he did. His last expressed townread was "pretty sure BPC is town" and then an afterthought post justifying why. After that he spent every post trying to work out the lynch compromise, and he certainly wasn't on in twilight.

In the world where "pretty sure x is town" counts as strong language I struggle to think what counts as weak language. You're also just lying, he called BPC scum in his 4th last post and his 3rd last post has significant content. And his 4th last post was not right before the day ended, it was on the 10th. The day ended on the 13th.

[Malakittens]

I don't know. Right now I'm just going to write off DV as a scum kill. There's no way of knowing whom he protected if he was killed that way.

A brief glance of ZZZX history is that he isn't giving this game that much attetion, but doesn't change the fact I'm scum reading him for his pred's actions and the fact he said he would catch up before the deadline and didn't and it was a weekend then.

So yeah lynch away~~

[sthar8]

You're also just lying, he called BPC scum in his 4th last post and his 3rd last post has significant content. And his 4th last post was not right before the day ended, it was on the 10th. The day ended on the 13th.

Hi. Assertions that are unsupported by fact make you look either scummy or like an asshole.

Let's look at the last six posts DV made:

Spoiler: DV

<_<

Why do you two feel so weird to me.

Are you referring to BPC and me? If so, it's either because BPC is scum and I'm paranoid of him, or because we're both town and paranoid of each other. I am cautiously holding off on a decision there for the time being.

He clearly says that BPC

MIGHT

be scum and that he hasn't made a decision. So you're full of shit.

Ok, pretty sure BPC is town.

Oh look, he's reexamined and now BPC is town. No reasoning given.

Augggh, now you're just making me feel bad :'(

Well I would probably do that as scum yeah, but here it is because I actually think it.

To anyone that wants to know the reason:

BPC's best bet as scum is probably just to buddy me and it would probably work, and he might be able to have me lynched with other people suspecting me anyway. Light suspicion thrown my way would also work with this, and is what I'd probably expect from him as scum. Here though, he starts off townreading me (which fits the expected scum-BPC strat), but is now voting for me. This doesn't make much sense from him as scum. In his mind, it would likely only encourage me to suspect him (I'm not sure he would have predicted this response from me).

The only plausible reason for him to vote me as scum, is in an effort to save his buddy Shaddowez. However, even this I find unlikely due to how conspicuous it would feel to scum, being the only two on a town wagon.

So, I think BPC is town. If he has fooled me, well done to him.

And I'm town too.

Unsolicited reasoning, probably because he realized that a naked townread on BPC looked weird. Like, maybe the post had another meaning or something...

Also this is the fourth last post. I don't know how you managed to misread "BPC is town" as "BPC is scum" but I'm sure it took some contortions. Congratulations.

Erm... I know that I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box but something is strange.

I thought I was the only one who scumread BPC. And now I've seen that both MalaKitty and Phokdapolees calls him a possible scum. Have I skimmed over something? Or have these scumreads just come out of nowhere?

Oso was a pretty popular scumread!

So you're saying I'm the second best bet for scum, but not scummy, just not town, but you're voting me, not trying to find someone you actually think is scum?

Oh I think you're scum. I have never stopped thinking that you're scum. There is just nothing in particular I can point to in your posts that I think indicates scum. This is not incredibly surprising to me since scum are often quite actively trying not to look scummy. Sometimes they might succeed! However, I have much stronger reasons to think everyone else town (except for maybe ZZZX) than I do for you, so my conclusion at the moment is that you're scum doing a good job of avoiding posting scummy things.

~~

I would very happily go back to ZZZX but I need ZZZX to post. It's important.

discussing that he'd prefer to lynch shadow, but would move to z. Like, as in, a compromise.

Only lynches I'll consider right now are shaddowez or ZZZX if he posts and I'm not happy.

"These are the lynches I'll compromise on."

I love you all! (Yes even you, DV)

Well in that case, get your paws off me and go scratch someone else. <3

"Go put your vote on a productive wagon so we don't no lynch"

So yes, what I said was factually accurate and not 'lying.'

"Pretty sure" is strong language compared to "townlean" or "might be town" or "townish" or a dozen other things. But keep telling me about how you're an expert on DV's diction. That seems important.

Not crumbing your target eliminates a full half of the utility of the bodyguard role. Just saying.

It might be best for you to cite your sources from now on.

@everyone- I'm not voting for Z, and if you lynch him before he's posted game content you are terrible. I'm happy to look at any case on chaos that doesn't boil down to "he's a VI," but Z is a competent townplayer who is easy to read as scum. Quicklynching him before he's gotten into the game is wasteful.

Notty also needs to catch up, and I'm happy to give him a couple days since he's having personal issues atm.

[phokdapolees]

Given your egregious conflation wrt scumtargets, I'm not interested in debating this with you. Your logic is either crap or you're scum. I don't really care if you are convinced.

I'm not asking for a debate, I'm asking for more solid reasoning than "DV had a townread on BPC, therefore that was a crumb and BPC was obviously who he targetted".

[SleepyKrew]

VC?

[SleepyKrew]

VC!