Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[Anatole Kuragin]

I do not have an item

[fferyllt]

wimp. I read 75 or so pages in the last 48 hours of day 1.

[Nashville Dreams]

Do not give up OkaPoka. It can be done. Read for gut. You will not be expected to know everything.

[OkaPoka]

it is just so much posting for the hydra's and little posting from everyone else.

I also hate reading hyrda's since they are extremely confusing and I can't tell much.

[OkaPoka]

Pages 1 to 22 is a bunch of a fluff and five seems like rude town
Too much talking about confusing hydraes.

[OkaPoka]

Looking over honeys iso she active lurkedand keeps talking about four trouble for some reason. Going to look at fonz for similar reasons.

[OkaPoka]

Holy. My predecessor iso is a mess.

[OkaPoka]

Scumreading Nashville dream. Keeps defending hb, and flip flops on csar or me. I dont understand the case and this hydra need to make their mind up.

[Cutty Shark]

So this was Skrew's observation over skype but it's valid and I'm echoing it here:

We either need to decide on a massclaim right now or move past the setup spec for a day. I'm ok with waiting if everyone's not on the massclaim page, but if we're doing that, let's get back to playing the game.

BP: who are you scumreading at this point in the game?
Nashville: same question.

ffery: I was expecting some kind of followup to my 2026 regarding what you think about Fonz. Your 2025 made it sound like you wanted to talk about Fonz, but 2027 ended up being all about you.

I also don't really agree that Fonz hammering when he did timingwise re: not giving you time to get reads down; if you were super concerned about that I don't see why you wouldn't have just accompanied your vote with a 'please don't hammer until I'm done catching up'.

Otherwise, how are your reads going?

-b

[The Fonz]

Looking over honeys iso she active lurkedand keeps talking about four trouble for some reason. Going to look at fonz for similar reasons.

Active lurked is true, but the idea that ze 'kept talking about FourTrouble' is outright false, and I'd like to know why you think that.

So, let's talk about who gets rope.

Both F-16 and Nashville feel town on the night stuff - Nashville's impetuous vote for F-16 feels town-motivated, and if F-16 really wasn't in control of himself (which is what the combination of his post - offered before mine - and my night result suggest) then he probably isn't scum, at least not knowingly.

Lissa's still town on the basis of her reaction to 5-off yesterday. Her play today feels like a lot of Me-tooing, which would be scummy in isolation, but meh. Her role in the Honey lynch buys her some town credit, too - her vote changes FT to Honey as the leading wagon.

OkaPoka - the one thing that confuses me about csareo's claim is this - now that we know Honey's flavour was reasonably obviously scum - that role feels broken and unfun if a town player could just have randomly been handed the identity of a scum player on a plate at the start. But csareo's use of it still reads like a town who thinks he's caught scum on flavour.


So I'm not voting for any of the above.

Baboon and Shark fall into the 'I was reading them town yesterday, and I haven't wavered that much' camp. Baboon's #1710 and #1920 are inconsistent - the former lists me as 'maybe scum' and the latter says they're 'very against' lynching me - but I guess this is going to be explained away as hydra dissonance. Sigh. Shark's reaction to my breadcrumb is town. Shark's read on Honey seems very noncommital, which would be a possible red flag except it's how ze came across to me as well - the "Well, I've got no particular reason to think she's town, but feels a bit default-y as a lynch" vibe. Shark, along with Lissa,

Baboon saying this of Honey near the end sticks out:

It's strange to me that HB is becoming a legitimate wagon. I feel like she's your standard low charisma day 1 lynch. Much prefer FT/AK/Nashville. I know I'm not super engaged here, but, it looks to me like we need to start consolidating.

-Ceph

Kind of suggests the wagon is bad, and implies people should 'consolidate' onto other players, without directly attacking the wagon or criticising anyone on it. This is a bad post now we know Honey's scum. Def rather lynch Baboon than Shark, I think.

I'd also like an answer from Shark on this apparent inconsistency:

-b

P-edit: I have no idea what to do with that. I do have reason to believe powers can be given out but no mention of weapons or items.

If I am currently holding an item I can perform [redacted] ability that cannot be blocked by anything barring divine intervention. not saying anything else unless we are massclaiming

This is incredibly similar to my role

-b

fferyllt - Nothing particularly tough for scum to do in her ISO. Said Honey was her top suspect, but voted late enough (after she was at L-2, I'd called for her to claim and indicated that I'd be willing to hammer her, and after Honey had failed to claim) that I can't give any townpoints for it (not saying it's actively scummy, just that by that point Honey probably gets lynched with or without her). Big bag o'null.

5-Off's basically Honey or Ree with the addition of the weird intern flavor thing. Probably don't want to lynch. Do want to discuss.

That leaves Anatole, who was under a lot of pressure yesterday, and bought time by claiming he could prove something overnight which he hasn't proven. Few noteworthy things stick out - trying to tie Lissa and Honey Bee together, talking about how Honey is his top (or one of his top) suspects throughout the day without voting zim - in fact pushes FT to L-2, despite having apparently suspected Baboon earlier, and also votes IHNC before eventually getting round to Honey. Justifies it with 'Well I suspect Honey more, but we get more information from voting any of the other wagons.' Does eventually vote Honey - third on the wagon, but this vote just feels weird. How weird? Well it doesn't seem to make any difference to the wagon dynamics, he makes it, then it literally gets ignored for at least ten pages. Anatole does defend csareo hard, but doesn't seem proactive about who

should

be lynched. Then again, the tone of his posts towards the end of day one just sorta reads 'Lynch anyone. I don't care anymore. I want this clusterfuck of feuding hydras to end.' Which is a sentiment I can relate to.

So I guess Anatole's my top suspect, but I'm really not happy having Anatole as my top suspect, if you get what I mean. Probably Baboon second. IDK, this game makes my head hurt.

Vote: AK

[Cutty Shark]

@fonz:

There is an aspect of my role that is similar to what AK most recently claimed. It is

not

the part about the item.

I'll spill the whole thing if we are massclaiming and only then.

-b

[The Fonz]

@fonz:

There is an aspect of my role that is similar to what AK most recently claimed. It is

not

the part about the item.

I'll spill the whole thing if we are massclaiming and only then.

-b

Thanks.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I mean, I can't really prove anything if nobody gives me an item. As far as I know there is nothing I can do to expedite that process except keep asking you guys.

I think part of your case on me is pretty faulty - it seems like you are scumreading me for linking Honey and Lissa together because you *think* Lissa is town and presumably from there that thinking she isn't town, or trying to reconcile my reasons for scumreading her with flips is somehow scummy.

[The Fonz]

Also looks like I moved on halfway through a sentence when checking votecounts, and saw something else and never came back to it - "Shark, along with Lissa, gets credit for swinging the lynch away from FT and onto Honey."

[Cutty Shark]

Both F-16 and Nashville feel town on the night stuff - Nashville's impetuous vote for F-16 feels town-motivated, and if F-16 really wasn't in control of himself (which is what the combination of his post - offered before mine - and my night result suggest) then he probably isn't scum, at least not knowingly.

I agree with the F-16 stuff here.
I still want to eventually know why F-16 was Nashville's target for what appears to be a tracker shot. I am aware of Titus' "it's not protown to discuss" answer but I obviously don't understand why that is.

-b

[The Fonz]

I mean, I can't really prove anything if nobody gives me an item. As far as I know there is nothing I can do to expedite that process except keep asking you guys.

Well, sure. But here's the thing. The situation where you're entirely full of shit, and there's no item mechanic in the game, looks from the outside exactly like the situation where you have the ability, but no-one gives you the item. Given that people basically backed off you yesterday because you claimed you could prove something, and haven't proved it, you can see where that logic train goes. Now, if there's a town role which can give items and hasn't given you one, then that's annoying play on their part. But presumably, we can't go on thinking 'Well, he's going to prove it at some unspecified point in the future

I think part of your case on me is pretty faulty - it seems like you are scumreading me for linking Honey and Lissa together because you *think* Lissa is town and presumably from there that thinking she isn't town, or trying to reconcile my reasons for scumreading her with flips is somehow scummy.

I mean yeah, of course you going out of your way to link a player I think is town to a known scum looks scummy to me. Particularly when you weren't exactly proactive about getting the known scum lynched. Scum try to tie town players to their partners all the time, it's a really common thing to do. (On the flipside, if Lissa is scum, that pretty much clears you). I mean, that's scumhunting, right? Your response really confuses me.

[The Fonz]

Both F-16 and Nashville feel town on the night stuff - Nashville's impetuous vote for F-16 feels town-motivated, and if F-16 really wasn't in control of himself (which is what the combination of his post - offered before mine - and my night result suggest) then he probably isn't scum, at least not knowingly.

I agree with the F-16 stuff here.
I still want to eventually know why F-16 was Nashville's target for what appears to be a tracker shot. I am aware of Titus' "it's not protown to discuss" answer but I obviously don't understand why that is.

-b

Usual 'I want you to reveal your choices' vs 'I don't want to reveal my choices' argument.

You feel it will help you get a read on the other player's mindset, and therefore determine their alignment. The other player knows (or is pretending to know) they are town, and that explaining the reasoning behind night choices helps scum predict what they will do. Both of these concerns are valid.

[Cutty Shark]

You feel it will help you get a read on the other player's mindset, and therefore determine their alignment. The other player knows (or is pretending to know) they are town, and that explaining the reasoning behind night choices helps scum predict what they will do. Both of these concerns are valid.

More concrete than this, though:

EOD, both heads were reading that slot as town (I'll go back and find this, but this is essentially the crux of the matter). I am not in the habit of tracking my townreads, considering the thing I'm most hoping for is tracking a person to an NK.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

1682: Mala read list
1875: Titus read list

-b

[Cutty Shark]

And I don't see how the honey bee flip would make me immediately single that slot out for bussing, considering they started the wagon. I mean people DO that, but it would not be something I scumread someone for.

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

I mean, I can't really prove anything if nobody gives me an item. As far as I know there is nothing I can do to expedite that process except keep asking you guys.

Well, sure. But here's the thing. The situation where you're entirely full of shit, and there's no item mechanic in the game, looks from the outside exactly like the situation where you have the ability, but no-one gives you the item. Given that people basically backed off you yesterday because you claimed you could prove something, and haven't proved it, you can see where that logic train goes. Now, if there's a town role which can give items and hasn't given you one, then that's annoying play on their part. But presumably, we can't go on thinking 'Well, he's going to prove it at some unspecified point in the future

I think part of your case on me is pretty faulty - it seems like you are scumreading me for linking Honey and Lissa together because you *think* Lissa is town and presumably from there that thinking she isn't town, or trying to reconcile my reasons for scumreading her with flips is somehow scummy.

I mean yeah, of course you going out of your way to link a player I think is town to a known scum looks scummy to me. Particularly when you weren't exactly proactive about getting the known scum lynched. Scum try to tie town players to their partners all the time, it's a really common thing to do. (On the flipside, if Lissa is scum, that pretty much clears you). I mean, that's scumhunting, right? Your response really confuses me.

I think it's weak scumhunting because you're predicating it on an unknown that could go either way - Lissa's alignment. It also seems like you think that as a townie I couldn't possibly mis-read Lissa (if she did flip town) in a way that makes it likely she is teamed with Honey. It's like you're trying to paint me as scum for POTENTIALLY having a bad read. Do you see my point?

And yeah, Honey had like 7 posts when I voted her and I had a few other scum prospects so I didn't push it hard. It was a good hunch and as I've said a bunch of times, it mostly came to me because of her artificial posting (you described Lissa's play as "me-tooing") which I saw her as having in common with Lissa.

[Cutty Shark]

How weird? Well it doesn't seem to make any difference to the wagon dynamics, he makes it, then it literally gets ignored for at least ten pages.

I'm curious as to the implication you're trying to make here

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

I mostly have outstanding issues with the nashville slot -

Your posts show a lot of dissonance on what you think Csareo/Oka slot's alignment is, which you've explained away as heads disagreeing. Where are you on that now?

You were sure I was scum to the point of claiming AtE and flailing that you later could not even quote to show what you meant, then when the pressure let up a bit you were townreading me. Is that something your heads disagree on as well or is this due to stuff that is not pro-town to discuss?

You had 5-off at the bottom of your scumreads but by the end of the day he was squarely null for you without any explanation of what changed for him. What are you seeing there?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Cutty, did you vig FT?

[Cutty Shark]

No

-b