Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[Cutty Shark]

you can't ever mention anything other than how scummy scummy scum that player is?

I obviously never said that.
I was showing you how I interpreted it as calling the vote 'weird' implied something you were finding scummy. I very often hear the term 'weird' used to describe something that they think might be scummy.

Otherwise I didn't know what you're trying to say or find out with that particular statement.
You clarified it, so fine. Do you think it implies anything about someone else, then?

-b

[Cutty Shark]

Cutter Shark, your game has been one giant info fish.

If I engage with these dumb potshots at me it's probably going to devolve into me swearing at you, but if you actually want to have a discourse on why that's bullshit, then we can do that.

Otherwise I'm probably going to ignore you.

-b

[The Fonz]

Yes. It DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY, says that F-16, specifically, was acting in such a way as to be basically impossible from a normally-functioning human being. This fits with his 'waking up covered with dirt' claim and wondering if he was beaten up.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I mostly have outstanding issues with the nashville slot -

Your posts show a lot of dissonance on what you think Csareo/Oka slot's alignment is, which you've explained away as heads disagreeing. Where are you on that now?

You were sure I was scum to the point of claiming AtE and flailing that you later could not even quote to show what you meant, then when the pressure let up a bit you were townreading me. Is that something your heads disagree on as well or is this due to stuff that is not pro-town to discuss?

You had 5-off at the bottom of your scumreads but by the end of the day he was squarely null for you without any explanation of what changed for him. What are you seeing there?

titus can you comment on this stuff?

[The Fonz]

you can't ever mention anything other than how scummy scummy scum that player is?

I obviously never said that.
I was showing you how I interpreted it as calling the vote 'weird' implied something you were finding scummy. I very often hear the term 'weird' used to describe something that they think might be scummy.

Otherwise I didn't know what you're trying to say or find out with that particular statement.
You clarified it, so fine. Do you think it implies anything about someone else, then?

-b

I think it implies that I can't read that vote as straightforwardly town, either - I can't follow the thought process that leads to making that vote at that time, and it would be nice if Anatole expanded on his thinking regarding the various viable wagons and the deadline. I do think that Anatole returning later and basically not really talking about who was going to be lynched potentially scummy, though see the caveat in the original post.

I think it might imply this was a highly fractured game, where everyone has there own little personal issue they think is hugely important and is ignoring anyone else. I'm trying to read through that part of the day as we speak (well, type).

[Anatole Kuragin]

you can't ever mention anything other than how scummy scummy scum that player is?

I obviously never said that.
I was showing you how I interpreted it as calling the vote 'weird' implied something you were finding scummy. I very often hear the term 'weird' used to describe something that they think might be scummy.

Otherwise I didn't know what you're trying to say or find out with that particular statement.
You clarified it, so fine. Do you think it implies anything about someone else, then?

-b

I think it implies that I can't read that vote as straightforwardly town, either - I can't follow the thought process that leads to making that vote at that time, and it would be nice if Anatole expanded on his thinking regarding the various viable wagons and the deadline. I do think that Anatole returning later and basically not really talking about who was going to be lynched potentially scummy, though see the caveat in the original post.

I think it might imply this was a highly fractured game, where everyone has there own little personal issue they think is hugely important and is ignoring anyone else. I'm trying to read through that part of the day as we speak (well, type).

Sorry, can you phrase that as a question to me asking exactly what you want to know regarding my vote on Honey? I'll do my best to harkon back to that time in my life and give you the full Inside the Artist's Studio for my post.

[The Fonz]

1) To what extent did you feel you cared about who got lynched within the last 48 hours?
2) What was your reason for voting Honey at the time you did? Who did you see as viable at what points, and how did you see the merits of the competing 'viable' wagons?
3) Did anything anyone else said from about page 50 onwards have a particular influence on how you saw the game?

[Cutty Shark]

fonz's claim satisfies me for now, though the flavor sounds recruity maybe. wouldnt expect that sort of claim if it actually were recruity.

Are we really throwing alignment changes into the speculation mix?

-b

[Cutty Shark]

It is not protoen to discuss why we picked someone as that might allow scum to figure who we tracked.

... didn't you already tell us who you tracked?

[Anatole Kuragin]

1) Day one I was a lot more flexible because until I see a flip I tend to have trouble really getting a grasp on the different lines of thought and motivations in the town which I think I have more insight into now. I believe I do care, evidenced by the fact I haven't dropped a vote and I'm trying to figure out some ongoing shit.

2) I thought one of FT and Honey were likely scum, and was willing to vote either. FT asked me to switch back to Honey and I went with it because I had a gut scumread on her all game. I thought the FT wagon had merit based on the reasoning I explained in post 1640. I also have had a weird feeling about nashville just due to loose threads so I was willing to vote her too - if she had been lynched and come up scum it would have more or less telegraphed the alignments of several slots.

3) Yes. Most importantly, I started to townread Lissa when she finally posted her reads, but after the lynch/flip of Honey I felt that her vote on Honey was bussing, and preparation for that is why I think she kept stalling posting her reads. I started feeling worse and worse about Nash and IHNC and better about Cutty. I was townreading Gossamer yesterday but the night results you and nash described and the second kill have me worried about that slot. I don't think F-16 is mafia but a killing third party is possible. The end of the day made me feel better about Baboon, who I don't think would have defended or townread Honey so obviously and so consistently if they were scum. My reads haven't really changed on anyone else - I've explained why I thought Csareo/Oka was town in the aftermath of his claim and his vote/case on my flavor that ended in the concession of a mod error.

[Anatole Kuragin]

It is not protoen to discuss why we picked someone as that might allow scum to figure who we tracked.

... didn't you already tell us who you tracked?

I think she's saying it may give the scum enough knowledge of the inner workings of their brains that they could guess each successive night who the target would be.

[5-Off]

Reading some more right now. I just got to the lynch. I'll finish tonight and post my collective thoughts then.

[Cutty Shark]

I think it implies that I can't read that vote as straightforwardly town, either - I can't follow the thought process that leads to making that vote at that time, and it would be nice if Anatole expanded on his thinking regarding the various viable wagons and the deadline. I do think that Anatole returning later and basically not really talking about who was going to be lynched potentially scummy, though see the caveat in the original post.

This is a little goalpost-movey and is making me wonder why you reacted so violently to my line of questioning before:

1) My initial question was asking why 'no one immediately reacted to his vote' implies scum.
2) Fonz' response was "that particular point wasn't scummy, just 'weird'"
3) My follow-up was 'what is weird about it / what does it possibly say about someone else, if not him'
4) This doesn't answer that, but instead focuses back on why the vote itself might have been scummy after all*

* - I acknowledge that the verbiage was 'not straightforwardly town', but:
1) I am not sure how a vote in this situation could be 'straightforwardly town', and if you think it's null, ffs just say null and we don't have to have this conversation about what it means to be 'weird'
2) If you're trying to PoE scum on the wagon (where the straightforwardly town thing could have some context), say that too, but I don't see any indication you're doing this
3) This has nothing to do with anyone's lack of reaction to it.

If you thought the vote itself (or even his own reaction to the wagon) was bad, why take umbrage at my labeling you calling it scummy for a slight,

at most,

misconstruing of the reasons why in lieu of just clarifying what you thought was weird/odd/bad/nonreactive/whatever the fuck you want to call it in the first place?

-b

[Nashville Dreams]

I'm here. For a little bit at least. I haven't really read what I missed, but I skimmed.

The more and more oko posts the more and more I want him dead. Which is sad because I was kinda town reading that slot Day 1. He keeps committing the Amish tell and I hate it.

~M

[Cutty Shark]

I think she's saying it may give the scum enough knowledge of the inner workings of their brains that they could guess each successive night who the target would be.

That is such a tinfoil hat concern to the actual concern of "I don't understand why you would track a townread, please explain that' which is obviously what I've been fucking asking her.

The suspicion that I'm using that little extra info to fucking extrapolate who she's going to track tomorrow when she's already fucking claimed who she tracked today is

fucking insane.

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

I mostly have outstanding issues with the nashville slot -

Your posts show a lot of dissonance on what you think Csareo/Oka slot's alignment is, which you've explained away as heads disagreeing. Where are you on that now?

You were sure I was scum to the point of claiming AtE and flailing that you later could not even quote to show what you meant, then when the pressure let up a bit you were townreading me. Is that something your heads disagree on as well or is this due to stuff that is not pro-town to discuss?

You had 5-off at the bottom of your scumreads but by the end of the day he was squarely null for you without any explanation of what changed for him. What are you seeing there?

Mala can you read this post while you're here?

[Cutty Shark]

I'm here. For a little bit at least. I haven't really read what I missed, but I skimmed.

The more and more oko posts the more and more I want him dead. Which is sad because I was kinda town reading that slot Day 1. He keeps committing the Amish tell and I hate it.

~M

How do you feel about your hydra partner's vote?

-b

[Nashville Dreams]

I'm here. For a little bit at least. I haven't really read what I missed, but I skimmed.

The more and more oko posts the more and more I want him dead. Which is sad because I was kinda town reading that slot Day 1. He keeps committing the Amish tell and I hate it.

~M

How do you feel about your hydra partner's vote?

-b

Idk where it currently is <.<

I mostly have outstanding issues with the nashville slot -

Your posts show a lot of dissonance on what you think Csareo/Oka slot's alignment is, which you've explained away as heads disagreeing. Where are you on that now?

You were sure I was scum to the point of claiming AtE and flailing that you later could not even quote to show what you meant, then when the pressure let up a bit you were townreading me. Is that something your heads disagree on as well or is this due to stuff that is not pro-town to discuss?

You had 5-off at the bottom of your scumreads but by the end of the day he was squarely null for you without any explanation of what changed for him. What are you seeing there?

Mala can you read this post while you're here?

Find me a hydra where there's no disagreement in reads and I will give them a gold star.

Idk we might be agreeing on a scum read there because as I sai the more oka posts the more I'm starting to dislike the slot.

Are we really bringin this up again considerin I went over it numerous time and quoted you. You were flailing plain and simple. Just drop it. The reason why I town read you wasn't because he pressure let up. It was because you basically got mod confirmed to have your flavor in the game. Stop trying to spin shit when it shouldn't e spun

My gut doesn't like him.

~M

[Cutty Shark]

Idk where it currently is <.<

I'll wait while you look

-b

[The Fonz]

I think it implies that I can't read that vote as straightforwardly town, either - I can't follow the thought process that leads to making that vote at that time, and it would be nice if Anatole expanded on his thinking regarding the various viable wagons and the deadline. I do think that Anatole returning later and basically not really talking about who was going to be lynched potentially scummy, though see the caveat in the original post.

This is a little goalpost-movey and is making me wonder why you reacted so violently to my line of questioning before:

1) My initial question was asking why 'no one immediately reacted to his vote' implies scum.
2) Fonz' response was "that particular point wasn't scummy, just 'weird'"
3) My follow-up was 'what is weird about it / what does it possibly say about someone else, if not him'
4) This doesn't answer that, but instead focuses back on why the vote itself might have been scummy after all*

* - I acknowledge that the verbiage was 'not straightforwardly town', but:
1) I am not sure how a vote in this situation could be 'straightforwardly town', and if you think it's null, ffs just say null and we don't have to have this conversation about what it means to be 'weird'
2) If you're trying to PoE scum on the wagon (where the straightforwardly town thing could have some context), say that too, but I don't see any indication you're doing this
3) This has nothing to do with anyone's lack of reaction to it.

If you thought the vote itself (or even his own reaction to the wagon) was bad, why take umbrage at my labeling you calling it scummy for a slight,

at most,

misconstruing of the reasons why in lieu of just clarifying what you thought was weird/odd/bad/nonreactive/whatever the fuck you want to call it in the first place?

-b

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST SHARK.

I didn't think the vote itself was necessarily scummy. I said what I meant, which is that I found everyone's behaviour around that vote odd, including Anatole's. It's a strange time to choose to switch, I had no idea why AK was switching at that point, it was strange that no-one paid any attention to it whatsoever, it's strange that Anatole doesn't react to this, or really talk about the person he's voting or any of the other lynch options after making the vote, with a fucking deadline pressing. I legit don't understand what could have been going through his mind at that point. That's not 'null,' that's not 'scummy,' that's 'What the fuck is happening here?'

The 'straightforwardly town' thing is that you usually give town credit to people who are on scumwagons early. See: you and Lissa. But I can't here. I usually try to psychologically profile people, and work out what they're trying to achieve. I can't do that, because any potential thought process seems so opaque to me. That's why it's useful to talk about it, question AK further, etc. And it's not true that no-one reacting to it says nothing about the vote - it says something about the way it was made and how impactful it was.

Finally, just re-read something, which completely changes how all this reads to me, but have to go for food so don't have time to type it up.

[Cutty Shark]

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST SHARK.

Dude, everything I'm asking is with the intention of clearing shit up. I don't understand why you would get short with me over that.

-b

[Nashville Dreams]

I mostly have outstanding issues with the nashville slot -

Your posts show a lot of dissonance on what you think Csareo/Oka slot's alignment is, which you've explained away as heads disagreeing. Where are you on that now?

You were sure I was scum to the point of claiming AtE and flailing that you later could not even quote to show what you meant, then when the pressure let up a bit you were townreading me. Is that something your heads disagree on as well or is this due to stuff that is not pro-town to discuss?

You had 5-off at the bottom of your scumreads but by the end of the day he was squarely null for you without any explanation of what changed for him. What are you seeing there?

titus can you comment on this stuff?

Mala head was scumreading you. I never was. Hence the dissobance. We both townread HB, so we are rebooting.

I still think Csareo is scum but like I said rebooting.

With 5 off I am not seeing much but zomg lynch in hood.

[Cutty Shark]

I didn't think the vote itself was necessarily scummy. I said what I meant, which is that I found everyone's behaviour around that vote odd, including Anatole's. It's a strange time to choose to switch, I had no idea why AK was switching at that point, it was strange that no-one paid any attention to it whatsoever, it's strange that Anatole doesn't react to this, or really talk about the person he's voting or any of the other lynch options after making the vote, with a fucking deadline pressing. I legit don't understand what could have been going through his mind at that point. That's not 'null,' that's not 'scummy,' that's 'What the fuck is happening here?'

I looked a bit, I think he was reacting to FT's post about "honey gives the best chance of hitting scum".

Considering it was a compromise lynch to him (I believe he even says this), I'm not sure what kind of reaction you'd expect from either version alignment from him. Do you want to talk about that?

-b

[Cutty Shark]

The 'straightforwardly town' thing is that you usually give town credit to people who are on scumwagons early. See: you and Lissa. But I can't here. I usually try to psychologically profile people, and work out what they're trying to achieve. I can't do that, because any potential thought process seems so opaque to me. That's why it's useful to talk about it, question AK further, etc. And it's not true that no-one reacting to it says nothing about the vote - it says something about the way it was made and how impactful it was.

I am curious if you think that:

1) scum generally gets 1+ member on a team on a scum wagon in a 3 (let's call this 3, most minis are ~3, although the SK possibility is making that less clear) scum game
2) scum generally are found later on in the wagon comp?

-b

[Nashville Dreams]

Oh, Titus voted you.

Ugh.

~M