Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[Nashville Dreams]

@Ceph, Telling scum rplefishing for no reason to fuck themselves is not cagey. Trying to determine if two players are CCing each other has a clear town purpose and is not rolefishing. I was wanting as little info as possible to see if one or the other must be scum.

[Nashville Dreams]

AK, when I told you to fuck off and scumhunt, your response on Lissa is what I wanted.

UNVOTE:

[fferyllt]

it's day 2.

according to package tracking the new power adaptor is out for delivery. it's going to be almost like replacing in again. later today. I hope!

[Baboon Pride]

I don't see the evidence for an Oka lynch. Titus tried to make a case on Csareo and failed miserably - there's not much there besides his actions regarding our flavor claims and that is all null - town because there is no scum motivation at all for it unless...

Oka is third party killer and gave out those flavors hoping mafia would kill PRs?

We are on Day 3. There should be more from the slot than his claim. Oka hasn't done jackshit either.

However, if Oka is giving out flavors, why wouldn't he give ours (cameraman) as it would most obviously be a PR in this setup. If you and CS are the same town strongmen for lack of a better convept, you are the closest thing to vts.

So... he SHOULD have outed you BECAUSE you sound like a PR? You'll have to excuse me if I insist that is ridiculous.

@Ceph, Telling scum rplefishing for no reason to fuck themselves is not cagey. Trying to determine if two players are CCing each other has a clear town purpose and is not rolefishing. I was wanting as little info as possible to see if one or the other must be scum.

We clearly have differing definitions of cagey

-Ceph

[The Fonz]

1) It gets murky if there is an SK, but her and CS are almost certainly not on a scumteam together. If it happened we could go back and find some other stuff like this. Not gonna waste the time on the associatives without the flip.

2) This is something I've gone into detail about (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6222242), especially regarding Honey Bee's posts. Honey Bee barely posted, but managed to come in and question me whenever I was putting pressure on Lissa. Towards the end of the Honey Bee lynch, Lissa kept delaying her reads she had promised until finally voting Honey. Fonz is trying to weave a narrative that Lissa is the one that really caused a momentum swing for that wagon and that I just voted for the fuck of it or the most ill-timed bus, neither of which is vintage anatole.

'Fonz is trying to weave a narrative' pings, since 'weave' is a synonym for 'fabricate.' This feels like he's trying to insinuate I'm trying to fit facts to the narrative, as opposed to what I'm actually doing which is interpreting the events in the way that seems most intuitively reasonable. Also note that I don't suspect Anatole because I think he's bussing. I'm voting him because of, primarily PoE, but also because his thought process doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I see no particular reason why his Honey vote would be difficult for scum to make, however, while Lissa's does put Honey in genuine danger. (Lissa feels to me like that itch I just can't scratch. Everytime she pops in and doesn't add anything, I feel this overwhelming urge to lynch her... DGB once described another player as a 'lynch smoothie,' and this is what Lissa feels like. She's the lowest of low hanging fruit. But she's done a couple of things that just don't seem that likely to come from scum).

Anatole's account of Honey/Lissa events feels fake. The concession that 'Honey Bee doesn't really mention Lissa' is something he tries to handwave, but which actually matters a great deal. Let's take a look at #2039. Note that he quote's Honey's 1013, which is simply a quote of Anatole saying he'd lynch Honey and Lissa. Now that this quote is a direct response to Anatole saying that he wasn't voting Honey, which is in turn a response to a long post in which Honey challenges Anatole's reasoning for saying he's willing to lynch her [Honey]. Honey also talks about why she suspects Csareo, engages with 5-Off, and that she thinks FT is town.

In #554, Honey attacks me for NOT voting Lissa. She also asks similar short questions to the one about Lissa she asks Anatole to 5-Off and Nashville. (Looking through this ISO, Honey engages with 5-Off a disproportionate amount given that both players didn't post much). Pretty much Anatole's entire case on Lissa is based on the idea that he happened to be questioning Lissa, and then

by massive coincidence

Honey shows up to question him. This is bad because) Honey Bee had posted earlier that day, voting Anatole. It's unsurprising that her next post, the same day, is still talking about Anatole. So she came 'back from hiatus' prior to Anatole questioning Lissa. Honey Bee posted at 11am and 7pm Eastern that day. That does not seem to fit the narrative Anatole is pushing here. 1012 talks about Anatole and 5-Off. Again. Nothing about Lissa. So when she shows up, and continues pushing the line of questioning she was earlier that day - to which Anatole hadn't responded - that's somehow linked to Lissa because Anatole happened to be talking to Lissa at the time HB shows up.

Let me be very clear here

- there's just no reason beyond scum motive or massive confbias to believe there's anything causative about the fact Anatole is talking to Lissa when HB shows up. Honey Bee then procedes to not talk about Anatole OR Honey Bee the rest of the day.

So the case is literally: Lissa is scum with Honey because Honey quoted a post mentioning Lissa - in order to talk about the part of it that didn't involve Lissa,

once

asked a question to Anatole about Lissa, in a post where ze asked several other questions and attacked me for not voting Lissa, and

once/b] made a post directed to Anatole that wasn't about Lissa at a time when Anatole was talking to Lissa.

[Anatole Kuragin]

still better than your case bro

[Anatole Kuragin]

AK, when I told you to fuck off and scumhunt, your response on Lissa is what I wanted.

UNVOTE:

So that whole post about lissa before didn't count? I had to lightly touch on the case again to another player before it was scumhunting?

[The Fonz]

Though it just occurred to me that it would be somewhat perverse for Anatole to come up with a fake claim that complex and leave his buddy to claim VT, given day talk. Hmmm.

[The Fonz]

Although no, the case on you is *much* better than your Lissa case.

[OkaPoka]

This game is really confusing.

[Cutty Shark]

Oka, you used to do this thing where you'd give reads and contribute and stuff. What happened to that thing

[OkaPoka]

I did?

Also the only person I want lynched is Nashville right now unless any of you can point me into another direction.

[Cutty Shark]

work is kicking my ass

I am reading Fonz' points on Anatole as "Anatole was reaching on making a positive connection between Lissa and Honey Bee and I don't like the manner in which he described their interactions". Does his interpretation really feel fake or just wrong?

I feel like you guys are arguing what you think someone who we know for a fact was being dishonest was doing and making squinty eyes at each other (or at least Fonz is to AK) for not interpreting potential associatives in the same way. Honey's very first interaction with AK is about Lissa (554). That could be conincidence; AK is purporting it isn't, and that it is instead a mild chainsaw. One of his points is that HB talks a lot

about

Lissa but never

to

her (contrast that with her interaction with me [ctrl + f bork], which is the opposite).

I don't know that I feel comfortable saying that's even more likely scum-scum interaction unless I know a lot about the player involved. But more importantly I don't think AK is scummy for bringing it up.

AK's demeanor in general the last bit of gameday has read town to me, even if I'm worried about the lack of anything empirical surrounding his claim.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

I don't see the evidence for an Oka lynch. Titus tried to make a case on Csareo and failed miserably - there's not much there besides his actions regarding our flavor claims and that is all null - town because there is no scum motivation at all for it unless...

Oka is third party killer and gave out those flavors hoping mafia would kill PRs?

If I'm worried about one thing with Oka it's that THREE players have occupied the slot and have

collectively

done exactly nothing worth a shit

-b

[Cutty Shark]

Last few pages is just a sea of Baboon town. Dissonance shmissonence, they're obviously not coordinating very much, but you can very obviously see who is who: Mara's wanting Nashville off the table and Ceph isn't.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

Baboon was seeming town to me yesterday but there were some interactions between them/Honey that make me wonder.

Were you gonna elaborate on this?

-b

[Natirasha]

Vote Count 2.4

Sleeping continues. Mr Limb wonders why he is even here for naptime.

Nashville Dreams(1):

OkaPoka

Cutty Shark(0):

5-Off(0):

AnatoleKuragin(1):

TheFonz

The Fonz(0):

gossamer wings(0):

Baboon Pride(0):

fferyllt(0):

OkaPoka(1):

Baboon Pride

Lissa(0):

Not Voting(7):

5-Off, AnatoleKuragin, gossamer wings, fferyllt, Lissa, Cutty Shark, Nashville Dreams

With ten alive, it is six to lynch.
STILL Replacing 5-Off

(expired on 2014-09-30 16:00:00)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Sorry guys, I haven't found time to catch up with this game yet but I'll do so on Friday afternoon.

[The Fonz]

work is kicking my ass

I am reading Fonz' points on Anatole as "Anatole was reaching on making a positive connection between Lissa and Honey Bee and I don't like the manner in which he described their interactions". Does his interpretation really feel fake or just wrong?

Fake. They gave me the impression of 'a reasonable person looking at it from a town POV could not possibly come to this conclusion.'

I feel like you guys are arguing what you think someone who we know for a fact was being dishonest was doing and making squinty eyes at each other (or at least Fonz is to AK) for not interpreting potential associatives in the same way. Honey's very first interaction with AK is about Lissa (554). That could be conincidence; AK is purporting it isn't, and that it is instead a mild chainsaw. One of his points is that HB talks a lot

about

Lissa but never

to

her (contrast that with her interaction with me [ctrl + f bork], which is the opposite).

Right. My problem here is that this statement (HB talks a lot about Lissa) is just not true. When AK starts his 'quote quilt' with a deeply misleading quote-of-a-quote-which mentions Lissa but was in no way about her - and AK tries to make HB talking to him about non-Lissa things about Lissa because he was talking to Lissa at the time, then it looks like he's actively being manipulative. Hell, if AK were trying to paint ME as scummy based off HB's ISO, that would be wrong but not as suspicious - because there is at least a plausible world in which someone might actually believe that. This Lissa case is an utter fabrication.

Please don't ignore the misleading wording of 'Guess who's back from hiatus.' AK is pretending 920 never happened, as if HB emerged from a long lurk, by coincidence, at exactly the moment he was questioning Lissa - basically some kind of Candyman-by-association thing, where he's suggesting HB posted BECAUSE AK was questioning Lissa. But HB had posted that morning, and continued the same line of questioning from the morning post in the evening post. This image of HB sitting there , lurking and waiting for someone to mention Lissa he's trying to convey is false.

And can someone for the love of God pay some attention to what I'm saying about 5-off?

[Anatole Kuragin]

"Look who's back from hiatus" was a stupid way to say that.

920 came after I had posts from Saturday to Monday questioning Lissa's reads and her perceived innocence within the neighborhood. It can be considered along with 1011 - Honey comes back after 3 days of not posting and the only thing he's concerned with is me questioning Lissa? Knowing Honey is scum that seems pretty bad. Honey Bee mentioned Lissa 4 times in her first two posts then didn't mention her and never responded to or quoted her directly. Honey Bee didn't have any significant interaction with anyone but Lissa and me (attacking me after questioning Lissa.)

What are you saying about 5-off other than you don't want to lynch him?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I may be misreading this or it may have been intentional from Honey, but that's the only real connection I see with Honey Bee and another player and I still feel that their posts are similar.

[fferyllt]

@Mala, Mara I have a question for both of you. Which one of you made this post in the hunterxhunterx game?

[fferyllt]

I think my preferences are

FT - reads are inconsistent, look up what fonz had to say about that, but to summarize: turn around on baboon was really weird and was sticky when its premise was invalidated. Don't get his angles on his scumreads: Fonz (goes from scum to town to scum again for ???, IHNC read is based on ika's emotion being fake - how does he know that? It strikes me as not fake.

Nashville - General obfuscation, a lot of 'look here after the fact I was subtly doing this thing I have no reason to be subtle about if I want people to notice me.' Mala says I'm ignoring her and I don't understand how I'm doing this or what she wants out of me that I haven't given her (other than not to vote her, but she also said my scumread on her made no sense. Why are you town, then, to the point that it makes no sense and I should see that? I've tried to go down this avenue before and her response was 1496 which is essentially a response of *shrug* to me; nothing like I saw in Micro 188 where we had a relationship of TvT with me scumreading her most of the game.
Also Titus. There is Titus.

(Honey/Csareo) - no real townread on either. Csareo could've done more with his role (he could've done exactly

nothing

with it, which is what I'd have done as scum, so that tempers the read a bit) but has done nothing outside of it. Honey Bee is just kinda there but represents the threshold of what I'm willing to lynch.

Kids are being fucking ridiculous tonight I'll be hopefully around at some point

-b

oka - was my scum pool as of EoD yesterday; thinking I need to reevaluate with this flip though

-b

How did you feel about the interactions between anatole and csareo at the point where anatole flavor-claimed?

[Nashville Dreams]

Likely me why?

~m

[fferyllt]

Apparently my predecessor already claimed so I can't use my role

to my advantage

.

This phrasing catches my eye.