Mini 1597: Runecast Mafia - Day 5

[Thor665]

Well, you were the only person who doubted Konowa, and even then never scumread, just doubted his role.

This is not actually an answer of my question.

[LynxKuroneko]

@Ansuz

Here, you're saying its unlikely for Thor to be scum. The post right after, you're saying its unlikely for Konowa to be scum.

For this, my ability *does* return pretty much one-word ("killing" for you, "vote altering" for konowa) reports. If the target has a 'watered-down' role (as several of us do from what I've seen), I'll get one result. If you (and just about everyone else) have believed gameplay506/Thor665 to be a Town Bleeder, and we aren't even entertaining the thought of Konowa-scum, that just leaves you.

Also, just because last scum *should* have an extra ability doesn't mean they do. There are several town power-roles, but some of them do have negative / risky caveats.

@Thor665 - What will I have to do to convince you that the above is my honest, truthful analysis of this game? I mean, Ansuz was one of the first under fire. -.-

[Thor665]

@Thor665 - What will I have to do to convince you that the above is my honest, truthful analysis of this game? I mean, Ansuz was one of the first under fire. -.-

First off - I will take your dodge of the question a second time as a 'yes, I agree Konowa is confirmed town'

Second off - to make me buy your story you need to talk to the mod about this;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6240412

You're wiping out a lot of new info about your role all of a sudden (that it doesn't detect secondary/weakened abilities) whilst ignoring that the mod stated it would detect factional abilities. That was, at first, a thing that made me slide Ansuz into the 'possible scum' pile again because maybe you're seeing his factional kill ability. The problem with that is that it fails to justify the extra kill, and the mod's answer fails to justify why you could both detect a factional ability and not be told about it due to some odd weaken affect on your power, which I might buy except that the previous owner of said power just flipped as an ability cop, with no stated modifiers.

Next up, we have the issue of the roles we've seen. We have strong willed as a modifier...currently, the only thing that appears to be affected by is the Bodyguard...maybe.
As an addendum to that, even if I want to buy that strong willed is the modifier to oppose the bodyguard on the chance they target each other - that requires the last scum to be a scum with an additional night kill power that the ability cop can't detect and that the scum apparently only get for one night. Now, that *could* play out with how Ansuz did what he did, if I was scum with a killing power and had someone claim Vig I'd play it exactly like Ansuz did.
That said, it's an unusual power to give scum.

As an addendum to *that* it also means that Ger shot a town read and also that Kthnx is a total dick who sucks at the game.
Because, even if Ansuz is a killing role scum with an extra shot, that means he shot Ger, scum must have shot D3x (who was protected by our doc) and so...Ger shot Mantis, a player he had been calling town (or didn't shoot, which is also anti-town and dumb, but less dumb and anti-town than shooting a town read). Also, if scum's extra power is "killing role" it means the only way that Kthx died was if he changed his mind and hid behind Ansuz after announcing a hide behind Osseus *or* that he chose to hide behind Tunnel (also without telling anyone)
Both of those actions would need to have happened for Ansuz to be scum, and literally both of them are terrible play. Now, I might buy that maybe one of them decided to be a total dork head and prove how "speshul" they were...but both?

The *other* option...is that scum have the ability to redirect actions (this would make sense with the strong willed trait).
In this theory they shot d3x/Mantiz and redirected Ger's shot to the other (or Ger didn't take a shot - also a possibility). Then, they redirected Kthx to Tunnel and shot Tunnel, or redirected Kthx to a scum player and shot Tunnel - both of which would result in what went down that night.

Also, remember, that an Ascetic isn't exactly awesome sauce in this setup. If you are town you and your predecessor would detect him as 'no result' which would look a bit scummy, the Vigs could also assure kill him if they shot at him, and it would functionally help the Bodyguard's accuracy. It also would strengthen the Inventor mildly, as at least he'd be less likely to gak up.
So, a scum team of Goon/Ascetic/Extra kill shot is actually pretty weak versus the town as it stands now.

The only way I could see Ansuz being scum - is if the Inventor granted a Vig shot (reasonably likely in this setup) or a redirect (possibly likely...)
My issue there though is how skeevy your claimed results have been up to this stage.

So, basically, if you want to sell me on your story - you better really show how Ansuz was obviously who got an invention and also *really* clarify what your ability does, and then ask the mod some questions about it, and come back with a really bang-up clarify claim.

[Thor665]

Also, as a hole in the redirect via invention theory.
There have probably been two redirects this game, and no way you get two from an invention.
Meanwhile, you didn't detect 'redirect' as a 'primary power' of Ansuz - which means his primary would have to be an additional kill. Which means the redirect would have to come from the invention.
That would require at least one of Ger/Kthnx to play pro-scum.

[Thor665]

@Mod - an updated front page with deaths and flips would be helpful if you have the time for it.

[Thor665]

tunnelmates,

One Shot Inventor/Bodyguard

, died on Night 3.

This also reads as funky as far as your claim goes. This role could be read one of two ways.

@Mod - as a clarification, can you tell me if he was a one-shot Inventor/one shot bodyguard *or* a one-shot inventor/infinite shot bodyguard?

Because, dearest Lynx, if it is the former, that starts to get really awkward for you.

[LynxKuroneko]

1) "If the target has a 'watered-down' role (as several of us do from what I've seen), I'll get one result."

The only person I think I'd get a straightforward result from is the Doctor, because he has no modifiers, etc.

2) You never answered my question regarding your role, therefore you have no right to demand answers from me, really. Regardless: "and we aren't even entertaining the thought of Konowa-scum." I believe 'we' includes myself. If I insist Ansuz is scum, why would I have doubt about you or Konowa being town?

3) The only explanation for the extra kill would be the Inventor handing someone a gun. Perhaps obtained the gun and shot someone, then claimed vig (not sure why that seems like a good play, but you're teasing the fact that we all made terrible plays, so...)

* Words in quotations were included in my previous post. Maybe read them?

I'd say more things but you'd probably skip every other sentence again.

[LynxKuroneko]

^ Before 'Perhaps' add in Ansuz.

[fferyllt]

@Mod - an updated front page with deaths and flips would be helpful if you have the time for it.

lots of updates and flavor will be added tomorrow sometime if package tracking isn't lying. well...package tracking was overly optimistic today. I expected my new power adaptor today since the status was "out for delivery".

I apologize for the rather lengthy delay.

tunnelmates,

One Shot Inventor/Bodyguard

, died on Night 3.

This also reads as funky as far as your claim goes. This role could be read one of two ways.

@Mod - as a clarification, can you tell me if he was a one-shot Inventor/one shot bodyguard *or* a one-shot inventor/infinite shot bodyguard?

Because, dearest Lynx, if it is the former, that starts to get really awkward for you.

the latter.

[Thor665]

* Words in quotations were included in my previous post. Maybe read them?

You're the one trying to sell me on you being town. I'm not trying to sell you on you being scum. You also misunderstood at least half of what I was saying. i am fine with it if you stop talking to me - I don't care about your reads if you won't work on what I asked about.

With the mod's clarification I do find myself wishing Tunnel had claimed 1-shot inventor after sending it...it makes sense that he probably would have sent it. The question becomes 'to whom'.

He was alive for the Ansuz claim though...so if Vig was part of the options for his invention, that would add him to the list of terrible plays in this game. So at that point he would need to have no clue about it *and* feel okay with Ansuz's Vig claim. Eh...feels thin. Weird story Lynx still feels better as a scum candidate.

Ansuz should stop being a lurksack.
Konowa should stop being derp.
I'm waiting lads, I am here, and I have provided extensive analysis to discuss like adults now.

[Thor665]

Reads: town
Tebow I mean t-bone
Kthxbai
Keenowah

Well...that ISO pretty much made me want to stop doing ISOs ever.

That said, this was the last coherent thing he said at the end of Day 1. For Ansuz to get a vig shot/redirect he would need to be handed an invention on Night 1 in order to use it on Night 2 to kill/redirect/whateverthefug.

T-bone = Osseus
Keenowah = Konowa

Basically, if he *didn't* send an invention to one of his three listed townreads here he sucks and I hate him. I'm going to presume he didn't send to Konowa because Konowa should have claimed that by this stage, and Konowa is functionally confirmed town, so... Osseus had a period to full claim, so didn't. So I would say odds are he used his one-shot to target Kthx, who had Hid that night, and so was untargetable.

In any case, odds for it being Ansuz is quite low.
Or full of enough derp play to add to my "point out how bad so many people were this game" rant if Ansuz is indeed scum.
Currently that list would be Ger, Kthx, Tunnel, and Ffrey...so, y'know.

Happy with vote.

[Konowa]

Konowa should stop being derp.

Konowa agrees. Everything Thor just said makes sense in regards to possible setup. Just trying to make sense of Day play as well is all.

[Thor665]

I dismissed it, though, admittedly, I am trying to sort you/Ansuz/Lynx not Ansuz/Lynx/Thor. So it's a different battle.

The point with me, is if I am scum I have to be a redirector (and, personally, think I would have needed some awareness of the Vig heavy mechanics in this game prior to claiming something involving Vigs...which, frankly I think clears me outright as there is really no way I could be a redirector and the scum team would know about the Vigs - that said, if this doesn't sell you move on to the second part and just allow me to think derpish thoughts towards you )

That said, for me to be scum I have to be a redirector (or multiple town played the worst game ever)
You also need to accept that Ffrey built a cop role, decided it was important enough to have a backup to, also decided it would detect factional abilities (and, by the by, double check if you have a factional section to your abilities chart, I know I don't, and I also know I have a vote power listed there, and you don't always have a vote power) and also then decided that with multiple odd PRs that it would be amusing to give this (backed up) role a "one word" answer to any investigation...just, y'know, for lulz. Or to make it less useful...? When it also detects factional powers like a kill, but, y'know, maybe sometimes it wouldn't detect factional powers if it investigated someone with more than one power...which is basically the entire game save one Goon and one VT, (and whatever your theory on me is - though I think I'm obligated to be a redirector)

At that point...meh. The endgame crowd *is* about what I would have brought here, because all of you are a mix of useless and scummy. I actually probably would have killed you over Tunnel, but considering what Tunnel flipped that's hardly telling of anything.

My play doesn't particularly work in this theory simply because your issue of my 'defense' of B_E was not a defense. And even if you refuse to believe that and want to call it a defense...I literally had no reason to bother defending him, because it was nothing but a risk and I could have assured any mislynch off of Kthx's claimed target (or confirmed myself if he had targeted me) so I had no stress to bother to defend anyone...so why do it? Especially for B_E in the situation he was in? Also, it ignores my attitude towards Josh, who was actually the more functional team mate of the pair, and also *was* in a situation I could have saved him from if such had been my goal.

As far as Ansuz/Lynx goes. Ansuz's votes are more scummy - straight up. Hell, I'd even say on average his play has been the same (Lynx mostly falling to pieces here in the last few days as he's been forced to try to connect up all his commentary in a town narrative). That said, if Lynx is town then I make more sense as scum than Ansuz does - for reasons already stated. It doesn't make sense for Ansuz to have both an additional kill and a redirect, and he counterclaimed Vig on Ger early in the neighborhood according to Tunnel.

Hold on though actually.

[Thor665]

This game is getting so twisted in my head, and I am hating Ger's flip and claim combined.

Okay, I was starting to go paranoid about a redirector Ansuz fakcountering Vig in the QT - except that doesn't make sense because then Lynx would be town, and he got 'killing' as his result, and since multiple redirects would be needed that woul dmake 'redirecting' the "primary" power according to Lynx's weird adjusted claim to try to still justify his current vote and work against some of my logic.

So, basically, it can't work,a nd I was right before I got paranoid. Yes, I make more sense as scum than Ansuz, because for Ansuz to be scum he'd not be a redirector,a nd if he was a redirector than Lynx should have seen 'redirect' and didn't, he saw the faction power which we'll presume gets buried - though feel free to try to get him to give you a straight answer about his ability cop effect - he is ducking my questions in that regard and Ithink it's because he's scum, so...

But, yeah, for you it's Thor redirector vs. Lynx redirector. From your end you *can* rule out Ansuz unless you see a hole in my logic here.

[LynxKuroneko]

I was a universal town backup. I gained the ability of the first player with an ability to die (I was disappointed when hiplop flipped VT).

Spoiler: As for your previous post:

Okay, I was starting to go paranoid about a redirector Ansuz fakcountering Vig in the QT - except that doesn't make sense because then Lynx would be town, and he got 'killing' as his result, and since multiple redirects would be needed that woul dmake 'redirecting' the "primary" power according to Lynx's weird adjusted claim to try to still justify his current vote and work against some of my logic.

I do not get a 'primary' result, like I've explained.

Maybe when geraintm was going to shoot Osseus, Osseus doctor'd himself. (Not sure if Doctors can protect themselves in this setup, I'm reading that they can't on here.) So, if geraintm did indeed shoot Osseus, wouldn't Osseus have died if he can't protect himself, even if geraintm died that night too?

I see what you mean about redirecting now. Let's consider that.

d3x states that Ansuz told him he'd shoot geraintm. So... That means there could have potentially been three kills that night (geraintm, Ansuz, scum), but there were only two.

Does this simply mean geraintm's shot didn't happen since he died?

This hurts my head. Been ISOing and what not. d3x died last night and he was hell-bent on lynching Ansuz.

Either scum wants us to think d3x was killed for wanting Ansuz dead OR scum wants to avoid that pressure today.

You know. If you truly feel Ansuz isn't scum, then that solidifies you as scum trying to 'catch me in a lie' considering you keep bringing up my role claim. Do you want to say your gg's now or finish off the last scum?



You know what. If this backfires, then shame on me. But I'm going to go with Konowa's decision, as he's the only one here I trust.

Unvote

[LynxKuroneko]

Especially since you refuse to divulge your role info for whatever reason that is (strange for someone acting as the freaking front-lines commander).

[Thor665]

If you get the first ability to die, why did you get Mantis' power and not Ger's power?

Also, your post is still full of things called 'not reading'. My role, and Osseus' protects have all been described.

[Konowa]

My play doesn't particularly work in this theory simply because your issue of my 'defense' of B_E was not a defense. And even if you refuse to believe that and want to call it a defense...I literally had no reason to bother defending him, because it was nothing but a risk and I could have assured any mislynch off of Kthx's claimed target (or confirmed myself if he had targeted me) so I had no stress to bother to defend anyone...so why do it? Especially for B_E in the situation he was in? Also, it ignores my attitude towards Josh, who was actually the more functional team mate of the pair, and also *was* in a situation I could have saved him from if such had been my goal.

This was the conclusion Konowa came to on the last read through regarding Thor's slot and perhaps explains Konowa crossing the situation regarding JoshB and B_E. As Konowa said, Konowa won't be No Lynching as it'll probably be Thor/Lynx/Konowa Tomorrow.

Sigh. Konowa hates Konowa's endgame lack of decisiveness.

[Ansuz]

3) The only explanation for the extra kill would be the Inventor handing someone a gun. Perhaps obtained the gun and shot someone, then claimed vig (not sure why that seems like a good play, but you're teasing the fact that we all made terrible plays, so...)

I'm not really sure how I would get away with receiving a vig from Tunnelmates and claiming it as my full role while he was still alive.

[Thor665]

I actually already explained the specifics of how that would happen.

It requires Tunnel to not know what his power might give and *also* to not decide to mention anything 'just because'

[Thor665]

Though it occurs to me that was an awfully empty and unhelpful contribution from you.

Why aren't you trying to synch up with Konowa, Ansuz? What is this gak?

[Thor665]

Like, I'm trying to synch up with him because I know he's town (or I loathe everything about this setup and will never play a ffrey game again). But you're not doing that.

I am immensely frustrated by your play this game. It is not only beneath you, it is beneath a number of players who I do not even think are good players. And I think both heads there are good players, so what the fething feth?

[fferyllt]

VC 3.4

A better burden
may no man bear
For wanderings wide than wisdom;
Worse food for the journey
he brings not afield
Than an over-drinking of ale.

Less good there lies
than most believe
In ale for mortal men;
For the more he drinks
the less does man
Of his mind the mastery hold.

Over beer the bird
of forgetfulness broods,
And steals the minds of men;
With the heron's feathers
fettered I lay
And in Gunnloth's house was held.

LynxKuroneko

(1): Thor665

Not Voting

(3): LynxKuroneko, Ansuz, Konowa

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline: October 7, Midnight US Eastern Time

Countdown: (expired on 2014-10-07 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:
- Opening post has been updated with flip results.
- Flavor will be added to day starts and ends later today, when laptop is fully of the worldstead once again.
-

[Konowa]

I definitely think Lynx is scummy, and I feel like Lynx flipping scum is the only thing that is going to prove I'm town at this point. So he gets my vote this DP, you [Konowa] and BurningEarth are close seconds.

Nacho and Thor, thoughts?

This might be the tipping point for Konowa to vote Lynx. Konowa has been mulling this over for a little bit now.

[Konowa]

TunnelMates, at this point, if you had to vote someone you absolutely felt was scum, who would that be? You may or may not answer why, and from your posts, it might be bull, but I think we're past the formalities.

MantisDreamz, at this point you're not even in the fray.

* My reads * (

@mod lady: Let me know if light blue isn't allowed either. Also, beautiful VC posts!

)

Scum

HighShroomish (because screw your vote, you're worse than Burning_Earth. If you truly were going after scum you'd vote gameplay506, considering he's the one under scrutiny)
Burning_Earth (paper posts, opportunistic: see my previous post)
TunnelMates (as has been mentioned by several players, avoids confrontation in various ways, general disdain here)
gameplay506 (active, but defensive, straightforward agenda regarding d3x, HighShroomish didn't vote him instead)
d3x (using flawed logic to defend his actions, attempting to ignite flames, see most posts)
MantisDreamz (avoided actual participation as long as possible, nothing but meaningless action and recent meaningless action)
Ansuz (mostly active, giving reasons while questioning others)
geraintm (posts logical reasoning against suspects, votes for an innocent)
Kthxbye (addresses questions and gives clear reasons)
hiplop (has done nothing since jesting about his wagon #47, most recent post, while none seem to defend him)
Konowa (sticks to the point, clarifying statements with facts/observations)
Osseus (similar to Ansuz, but the only one defending me here!)
LynxKuroneko (because I'm town regardless, right? )

Town

Then there's this and Konowa doesn't know what to think of Lynxscum listing buddies as one and two on scumlist.

Like that early list is pretty good but is it inside knowledge slipping or just good reading by Town?