Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[Baboon Pride]

Ffery, did you re-iso our slot, or...?

also, yes that was mala. I came in on the next page flirting with your slot.

[Baboon Pride]

though you really think this is a marascumdra considering that one game we did play together in?

hahahahahahahahaha

why is my post so funny?

why is Oka town?

when has Oka ever made reads?

[Baboon Pride]

and Falcon

this is probably the one game where I won't be all paranoid about your slot, so lets make the best of it. Why are you voting Ffery?

[Nashville Dreams]

this is the player you called a townbeard. :/

I am the one who uses townbeard. Generally that's what I thought CS was. His reluctance to inquire as to whether he is CCing AK is odd.

I am starting to think it's him and Baboon.

[Nashville Dreams]

^^^ wasTitus.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, did you re-iso our slot, or...?

haven't done any isos yet. When I had laptop access again, I went back to day 2 start and read through to the end. I feel more or less caught up now.

Why?

[Anatole Kuragin]

this is the player you called a townbeard. :/

I am the one who uses townbeard. Generally that's what I thought CS was. His reluctance to inquire as to whether he is CCing AK is odd.

Don't you think it's odd you would be suspicious of that considering how much you have accused us of rolefishing for asking about your role/item?

[Titus]

@AK, No. You both have claimed no action. Both claimed you make passed items better. There's no role to fish if you are bith vts like you are suggesting. Then a good hunk have access. Asking about your roles to that extent is not rolefishing. I am not looking to see what you can do. I am looking to see if you are sorta vtish or if you cc each other.

Meanwhile, CS's questions serve to allow scum to solve roles and figure out who is a threat and who isn't.

@FFery, My point about fakeclaims was that CS was being artificially stupid in pretending scum may not have them.

[Anatole Kuragin]

CS's role has nothing to do with items from what I can tell

[fferyllt]

@AK, No. You both have claimed no action. Both claimed you make passed items better. There's no role to fish if you are bith vts like you are suggesting. Then a good hunk have access. Asking about your roles to that extent is not rolefishing. I am not looking to see what you can do. I am looking to see if you are sorta vtish or if you cc each other.

Meanwhile, CS's questions serve to allow scum to solve roles and figure out who is a threat and who isn't.

@FFery, My point about fakeclaims was that CS was being artificially stupid in pretending scum may not have them.

And my point is that it wasn't stupid at all to think that scum

may not have started the game

with fake claims. It's completely in keeping with my experience of Nati-games.

[Cutty Shark]

We have time and I'll discuss other reads later but I want to talk about Nashville:

I get the suspicion there and the concerns about them but there are two things that make me sure that they are town:

1) The way Mala initially tried to sort Tammy was incredibly genuine and knowing Mala as both town and scum, I think it is well outside the range of what scum-Mala is able to fake. It felt like she truly wanted to figure out our affiliation and was doing all sorts of odd and unusual things to get a read on us. As scum, Mala is a rather low profile player. She doesn't bring attention to herself. She pops in once in while to post decent-looking analysis of the game. She is emotionally more subdued than she is as town.

2) I talked about this one already but the way she voted us at the start of D2 for a claim.

I haven't figured out who I want to lynch but I strongly prefer that we not lynch Nashville Dreams and consider other alternatives. I'd be shocked if they flipped scum.

I'm, I guess, grudgingly fine, with letting Nashville live today, even if I think Titus is being an utter putz (seriously, I fullclaimed in the fucking thread: it's a similar role to AK. It's not a 'CC' and I don't even fucking know what you would mean by CC here; we don't have the same flavor and our roles aren't exactly the same). The points you've made on their being town have merit and I have some gut stuff of my own on both of their heads independently.

If I were to remove them from the equation (and skrew will yell at me for this as he very much wants to lynch nashville):

People I don't want to vote today:
(Baboon, F-16 [wish you were more active but I don't consider it a fade considering it was simultaneous with Tammy's replace out]), Fonz
These are all people I've been townreading over the course of the game and haven't really stopped. Fonz is probably the weakest of the three town reads here.

I'm ok with ffery for the moment as her posting is commensurate with what I've seen from her in the past: she's interacting, now I need that to translate to analysis. Would have expected this to happen already if she hadn't been sidelined with comp issues.

(Lissa, AK, 5-off, Oka) are all problem slots for me right now.
Oka has not, from what I can see, contributed a single bit of original analysis the entire game. If someone wants to point me to where I'm wrong I'm all ears.

Lissa's somewhat in the same boat, but I feel like her MO is more to just go 'hear hear' on people's points mixed in with some promises for more activity that inevitably don't pan out. If not for the neighborhood thing (and it really is worth talking about the fakeclaim point to figure out whether or not Lissa-scum had immediate recourse to be comfortable with saying what she did in response to 5-off's softclaim about scum in the hood. If what ffery is saying about fakeclaims being generated on request as a mod-meta thing for Nati, then Lissa might just be town again)

5-off: Other than the beginning thing with the hoods he never really did anything that was town. Fonz - you wanted people to notice what you were saying about 5-off, but I can't easily find it in your iso. Can you point me to it?

AK: Claim. That's really it. He'd probably be higher for me if not for the fact that no one has even come close to corroborating what he can do, I think. I probably should reread him. I scumread him yesterday on content and I am townreading him today on tone. Meh.

I realize we need to start coalescing on a lynch but I'm having a very hard time finding tiers to really even start at.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

And my point is that it wasn't stupid at all to think that scum may not have started the game with fake claims. It's completely in keeping with my experience of Nati-games.

Yeah this point is extremely germaine to Lissa's alignment

-b

[Cutty Shark]

Another thing about AK, and I'm not really sure if this has any merit, but:

Lissa is a really easy slot to push. I don't know that, as scum pushing Lissa town, I'd have gone for the interaction with flipped scum angle.

I can't explain why I think that.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

(Lissa, AK, 5-off, Oka)

Also none of these are slam dunk scumreads for me, hence my general 'am I even doing this right' sentiment

-b

[fferyllt]

We have time and I'll discuss other reads later but I want to talk about Nashville:

I get the suspicion there and the concerns about them but there are two things that make me sure that they are town:

1) The way Mala initially tried to sort Tammy was incredibly genuine and knowing Mala as both town and scum, I think it is well outside the range of what scum-Mala is able to fake. It felt like she truly wanted to figure out our affiliation and was doing all sorts of odd and unusual things to get a read on us. As scum, Mala is a rather low profile player. She doesn't bring attention to herself. She pops in once in while to post decent-looking analysis of the game. She is emotionally more subdued than she is as town.

2) I talked about this one already but the way she voted us at the start of D2 for a claim.

I haven't figured out who I want to lynch but I strongly prefer that we not lynch Nashville Dreams and consider other alternatives. I'd be shocked if they flipped scum.

I'm, I guess, grudgingly fine, with letting Nashville live today, even if I think Titus is being an utter putz (seriously, I fullclaimed in the fucking thread: it's a similar role to AK. It's not a 'CC' and I don't even fucking know what you would mean by CC here; we don't have the same flavor and our roles aren't exactly the same). The points you've made on their being town have merit and I have some gut stuff of my own on both of their heads independently.

If I were to remove them from the equation (and skrew will yell at me for this as he very much wants to lynch nashville):

People I don't want to vote today:
(Baboon, F-16 [wish you were more active but I don't consider it a fade considering it was simultaneous with Tammy's replace out]), Fonz
These are all people I've been townreading over the course of the game and haven't really stopped. Fonz is probably the weakest of the three town reads here.

My top tier town is similar. f-16, you are my top town reads. baboon and fonz are in kind of a wait and see mode. I like fonz better today than I did on day 1. I like baboon less, but it's probably an activity thing. Both are high on my review list now that I'm caught up, but not as high as some of the folks I'm finding scummy.

I'm ok with ffery for the moment as her posting is commensurate with what I've seen from her in the past: she's interacting, now I need that to translate to analysis. Would have expected this to happen already if she hadn't been sidelined with comp issues.

We've hydra'd before.

(Lissa, AK, 5-off, Oka) are all problem slots for me right now.
Oka has not, from what I can see, contributed a single bit of original analysis the entire game. If someone wants to point me to where I'm wrong I'm all ears.

Agreed. AK less so than the others. Oka's posts give me hives. This is my first game with him, so my next step is going to be meta review. I'm hopeful that F-16 maybe has played with him before and can opine on whether town-oka plays this way.

Lissa's somewhat in the same boat, but I feel like her MO is more to just go 'hear hear' on people's points mixed in with some promises for more activity that inevitably don't pan out. If not for the neighborhood thing (and it really is worth talking about the fakeclaim point to figure out whether or not Lissa-scum had immediate recourse to be comfortable with saying what she did in response to 5-off's softclaim about scum in the hood. If what ffery is saying about fakeclaims being generated on request as a mod-meta thing for Nati, then Lissa might just be town again)

Yeah, this. If she feels about scum roles the way I do, tooth-pulling is involved in actually working up substantive posts.

5-off: Other than the beginning thing with the hoods he never really did anything that was town. Fonz - you wanted people to notice what you were saying about 5-off, but I can't easily find it in your iso. Can you point me to it?

I am seeing neutral 3rd parties under my bed because of setup paranoia. I can see 5-off's play and to some extent oka's play fitting that mold.

AK: Claim. That's really it. He'd probably be higher for me if not for the fact that no one has even come close to corroborating what he can do, I think. I probably should reread him. I scumread him yesterday on content and I am townreading him today on tone. Meh.

This is my second game with AK. One of the things I noticed in the first game was that there was a whole lot of "seeing what I'm seeing, when I'm seeing it" while we were both in the game. That diverged after I died n1 and it was harder to see the game from his perspective. I was really curious to see if that would happen when I did my catch up. It kinda did but not as strongly. His claimed role and the "in search of items" focus that sometimes takes precedence over what's happening in the game probably explains it to a degree.

One thing I wondered about fonz's AK case is that game day nearing end with a big question mark about whether he'd receive an item and be able to do something that night, it kinda makes sense that who to lynch wasn't uppermost on his mind, maybe.

I realize we need to start coalescing on a lynch but I'm having a very hard time finding tiers to really even start at.

-b

Right now, I'd vote oka if I had to make a snap decision. But, I want to look back at his predecessor, who I thought came off really town when he went after AK over his flavor claim, and I want to do some meta research. Should start that later today after I get the football party shopping out of the way.

Re Nashville I have a theory that town-titus posts make a hell of a lot less sense than scum-titus usually does. And I feel like Mala has made an effort to make herself readable to me if that makes sense. I don't think that would feel as genuine if she were scum, if she would make the effort at all. Also, day 1 she didn't shut down analysis and focus more exclusively on self preservation at a point where I think she would have done that as scum. She was still looking for town as well as scum through that.

[Cutty Shark]

We've hydra'd before.

My focus on being in a hydra with you has obviously never been about reading you, and I've gotten obvtowned so early in pretty much all of them that I never really looked at the way people tend to read you since I'm the easier read.

bottom line: I don't trust myself to read you by meta, as despite all the experience we have together there is actually very little (bork-town ffery-?) combinations out there.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

Re Nashville I have a theory that town-titus posts make a hell of a lot less sense than scum-titus usually does.

I can't really get behind this as a reason to townread them. It's really, really, really easy to act crazy, especially when you it's expected of you, and as you've seen, Titus by now is super aware of her reputation as being somewhat off-the-rails as town.

-b

[Cutty Shark]

(bork-town ffery-?)

Actually the one time I really nailed you as town was GIF's touhou game where I was in the hydra with mollie, but the way you handled mollie that game was just so obviously town

-b

[fferyllt]

We've hydra'd before.

My focus on being in a hydra with you has obviously never been about reading you, and I've gotten obvtowned so early in pretty much all of them that I never really looked at the way people tend to read you since I'm the easier read.

bottom line: I don't trust myself to read you by meta, as despite all the experience we have together there is actually very little (bork-town ffery-?) combinations out there.

-b

My interactions are usually driven by bits and pieces of analysis coming together. I don't expect other players to be able to tell what thoughts are driving some of my questions, because I don't necessarily want the object of the questions to know precisely what I'm after. But, there was quite a bit of surmise driving the posts I bogged the thread down with yesterday.

It's not a fos. it's more of a "hey, don't forget what you know about how I work.

I totally understand not having a solid read given I've essentially replaced into this game twice now. I don't feel that there's any lack of analysis driving my play, though.

[Cutty Shark]

It's not a fos. it's more of a "hey, don't forget what you know about how I work.

I know. I just wanted to explain why it's not my primary avenue here.

-b

[fferyllt]

Re Nashville I have a theory that town-titus posts make a hell of a lot less sense than scum-titus usually does.

I can't really get behind this as a reason to townread them. It's really, really, really easy to act crazy, especially when you it's expected of you, and as you've seen, Titus by now is super aware of her reputation as being somewhat off-the-rails as town.

-b

It's a thumbnail. This game may (and I hope will) test the accuracy of my emergent titus-model. I've misread her before by thinking "this kinda makes sense" meant she and I were seeing the game similarly and might share wincon-driven motivations.

My read is mostly a mala read, though. Without her voice in the hydra I'm really not sure what I'd make of titus.

[fferyllt]

(bork-town ffery-?)

Actually the one time I really nailed you as town was GIF's touhou game where I was in the hydra with mollie, but the way you handled mollie that game was just so obviously town

-b

I think this borders on something Empire looks for in my game.

I don't actually like for reads to come down to me displaying presumably unfakeable temper and irritation. For one thing I don't like getting that angry and irritated in games.

[Anatole Kuragin]

If I am holding an item I am essentially a strong-arm vigilante but the actual action is called "Magic Trick". I can perform a kill as a night action and nothing short of divine intervention can stop it. This is why it would be very easy to prove my role if I had an item.

[Cutty Shark]

This is making me think that AK and Fonz are not on the same team.

-b

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think it's just a figure of speech tbh, basically saying it goes through both ascetic/roleblock and bulletproof