↑ Cutty Shark wrote: ↑ The Fonz wrote:On the lazy thing, I have no intention to get in a pissing match with my top town read over the fact I have a small criticism of them while still reading them as town. If you want to have a pop at anyone who doesn't think your play is perfect, fine.
Do you really think that's what that was? I'm just getting butthurt because not every single thing I do is interpreted as super town?
What I care about is that you said my scum list is 'lazy' (ergo it is lacking in some regard) and then proceed to scumread two of the four people on it (as well as not give a very clear indication of who you think I'm totally whiffing on. That gives an air of cog-dis.
If you think Baboon or ffery is scum (which appears to be something you're trying to at least hint that you're looking at), I'd wish you'd not beat around the bush about it.
-b
Yeah, I mean this would be bad if that were in any way an accurate characterisation of my position. See my #2503 and #2508.
It is perfectly reasonable for a player to suspect
any given one
of those players. Some bad players are scum. But when three of the people on your scumlist are noncontributors, and you give no particular reason for suspecting them
other than their noncontribution
,
and
the fourth guy is someone you're probably going to let slide on his claim (and indeed, with regard to whom you repeatedly attacked my case without providing a positive alternative) then of course I'm going to think you're not scumhunting as hard as you possibly could be. Meanwhile, you give fferyllt a 'Well, she's interacting, I've seen her do this as town, just needs some analysis' pass. Well do you think Oka or Lissa or 5-Off are undercontributing relative to their norms? If you had been willing to take even one of these three off the table for today, I'd have far less reason to see you as lazy. If you'd used other tools (VCA, interactions, meta etc) to provide a firm differentiation between these players, I wouldn't see you as lazy.
@feryllt
: I would like an explanation of why you have F-16 and Cutty as solid town and me as a maybe, given that it feels from inside my head that I'm doing more scumhunting than either of them (this may or may not be objectively true). In particular, it felt early today like you were gearing up for a PoE Fonzvote, then changed your mind after I claimed. What is it you specifically think they're doing that is unlikely to come from scum?
↑ Cutty Shark wrote: ↑ The Fonz wrote:It's not. I've been clear throughout that she's playing incredibly suboptimally, but I think she's town. See the 'Itch you just can't scratch' post. I mean, I could choose not to point out things I'm noticing about her, but I'm trying to be transparent about my thought process here. If people are town and playing badly, you should be encouraging them to play better. Lissa's lack of content is incredibly irritating. But none of the fundamentals of the 'She's town' case have changed, and indeed the uselessness isn't new.
I think it's at least responsible to revisit this.
The whole reason I brought up the fakeclaim issue (guess what, it's not Titus' "herp derp he's trying to fake a townslip durrrrrr") is that if scum-Lissa has a fakeclaim built into her role, the primary tenet of why people are townreading her seriously starts to break down.
Honey didn't flip with a fakeclaim embedded in the role PM, so it's enitrely plausible that she just made up the security guard thing on the spot and Nat just ran with it in the flip (as I could see her doing that). If that is the case, then Lissa probably really is town, but I want to make sure people are thinking about that before they utterly write her off.
-b
I've covered this, but yeah, it's important. Nashville's 'Well of course scum have fakeclaims' thing gave me a moment's pause, but my conclusion is while there are several ways of giving scum fakeclaims - names, being willing to provide a line of flavor on request, etc - it still strikes me as unlikely that Lissa would have had
the precise town intern pm
in front of her as scum at that exact point. So I think putative Scum-Lissa would have been taking an unnecessary risk.
Anatole's #2633 I kinda like. This is at least a discussion we need to have. CS has basically written Baboon off as town due to this:
↑ Baboon Pride wrote:It's strange to me that HB is becoming a legitimate wagon. I feel like she's your standard low charisma day 1 lynch. Much prefer FT/AK/Nashville. I know I'm not super engaged here, but, it looks to me like we need to start consolidating.
-Ceph
It's worth noting that Baboon talking about me, or Mr. Ree who was awaiting replacement, as 'acceptable compromise lynches' and just completely ignoring the possibility of an HB compromise lynch feels off. I also get the precise opposite feeling to Shark's 'scum wouldn't do that' about this post - I get a 'that's precisely what scum would do here' vibe. Soft-defend their partner (imply they're just a poor player - yes, I know, irony) and suggest that people should 'consolidate' around voting people that aren't Honey, ie dismissing Honey as a serious lynch candidate without outright defending zim.
