FitzOtter I (Game Over)

[Bookitty]

If I were going to vote right now, I'd vote T-Bone. I just get a really bad feeling from the disappearing wagon on Day One and the weird pick-and-choose way he jumped on the AurorusVox wagon while still saying that ABR/me were still scummier. Pinging my scumdar pretty hard.

Hostile Intent's vote on AurorusVox didn't seem very well supported, so I'm suspicious there, too.

Still thinking, though.

[T-Bone]

You're still posturing on everything, I'm gonna make this easy.

Vote: Bookitty

You can't accuse me for the 'pikc-and-choose' way of going about things when you are doing the same thing to me. Obviously, you're trying to set me up for a lynch. Bookitty keeps hinting "but I'll vote Bone guys.....' the subtext being 'but only if someone else does it first'. She came into this day saying "I'm gonna vote Bone lalalala" to "I'm gonna convince everyone that AV is scum"...and when that got support she quickly backed off of it. Now it's back to "I might vote Bone guyz"....just do it please, just about every other post is you looking for an excuse to make the vote. You're behind the 8-ball here, ABR was scummy as fuck and you're being scummy in a completely new direction, so that's fun.

Plus from my PoV you are poking at support for my stronger townreads (HI, droog), and posturing on AV who is far from a townread. It is just really bad. I just have a hard time seeing your posts from a town point of view. Too much posturing, too much setting yourself up to justify moves you might make later.

[droog]

t-bone said what i was thinking but was too lazy to say
so t-bone is inching toward a town read

so could you explain why you were on the av wagon until just now?

[Bookitty]

@T-Bone:

Since when have you had a townread on HI? Quotes, please, or it didn't happen.

I see no evidence for this anywhere. Also, you think both of the loverized players were town, even though the scum could have gotten a two-fer by nightkilling one on the night they were loverized?

And what would be the scum motivation in pushing a lynch on AV (presumably for towncred) and then backing off it? That makes no sense for scum REGARDLESS of AV's alignment. If I were scum trying to bus him, why wouldn't I carry through that plan to the finish? If I were scum trying to push a lynch on town, why the hell would I ever back off it when the wagon was almost complete?

Yeah, you were a scumread based on the fact that you gave not one solid set of reads throughout the game. Your vote on AV during what for all we know is MYLO didn't inspire confidence either. Your little slip where you said Droog was town and then HAD to correct yourself (OMG, I accidentally implied that I knew Droog's alignment, gotta fix that!) was just the icing on the cake of your scumminess.

VOTE: T-Bone

@Droog: I never voted AV, ergo I was never on the AV wagon. Can you clarify your question?

[T-Bone]

t-bone said what i was thinking but was too lazy to say
so t-bone is inching toward a town read

so could you explain why you were on the av wagon until just now?

Because I felt AV slipped earlier. Since then though Bookitty has been way worse. I think our scum is in the Bookitty, AV, UT, Kuribo block. I feel like I have enough information about the other three players to kick them into my town pile. In regards to Bookitty I've repeatedly said why I think her slot was scum pre-replacement, I kept saying why she is scum now, and she certainly hasn't done anything to change that perspective. It's only NOW that I've voted her that she feels threatened enough to follow through on her threat to vote me (a threat she made upon replacing in and making her first read). It's all been posturing by Bookitty for her to try and get the right lynch. Look at her latest post. I did all those 'scummy things' well before I voted her. Why wasn't she voting me from the beginning? Because it's a fake read. Why did she make a case against AV and not follow through? Because it's a fake read. Her scum motive is very apparent to me, she's trying to get the right lynch with the least amount of blood on her hands.

[Bookitty]

For real Farside is scum, I've laid it out why he is scum, and Farside's only responses have been misrepresentations and freak outs. Farside votes please.

What changed your mind on Farside/Droog, T-Bone?

Also, why do you think HI is town?

You said there were lots of reasons to consider ABR/me as scum. Please list those, keeping in mind that you yourself said level of activity shouldn't be used to call YOU scummy.

Why are you "the right lynch," T-Bone? Can you explain the scum motivation behind pushing one lynch almost all the way and then putting the brakes on abruptly?

I can explain the town motivation for my actions quite easily. I thought AV was scum based on VCA and, when his wagon built so quickly, I realised that probably wasn't the case. I don't wanna lynch prob-town.

And you never have really said why I'm scum other than that I'm "posturing" to ... what? Attract attention? Show off my pretty new dress? The posturing thing won't fly, so explain why you think I'm scum using quotes or examples, please.

[Bookitty]

Also, as for why I wasn't voting AV or you, T-Bone, I thought it was only four to lynch. Have a look at the last day of Oldy Mafia for why it's best to be cautious with your vote in likely MYLO.

[T-Bone]

Dragging out Post 193....I'm so inconsistent.

Because what i thought Farside was scummy for had nothing to do with the game, and so I stopped scumreading her for it.

I have explained why you are scum so don't try and tell everyone I haven't. Droog obviously understands, since he says he agreed, so I've hardly "not explained anything". I'm not playing this game with you. If you want to be town, stop doing the things I am scumreading you for. Don't turn around and make your scumminess about me. If you believed AV was scum you would have pushed it harder. If you believed I was scum you wouldn't have waited so long. You were trying to cover your baes and you got caught. I don't believe that you ever believed AV or I were scum. For an example of the difference, go look at early game. Farside was legitimately scumreading me because she thought I was purposefully using language she didn't like to piss her off. That's what it looks like to me when someone has a real scumread. You however did a lot of hemming and hawing about both AV and me. Yes if AV was your scumbuddy you'd do exactly what you did. Hell, if I were scum and he were my scumbuddy I would have done the same. Your actions explain everything to me, it explains everything to anyone else. It's up to the rest of the players to decide if your actions are scum motivated or not. I think they are.

I understand being cautious in MyLo, but I don't think that was your concern, because you were concerned about MyLo when you thought there was 7 players, and that doesn't make sense. MyLo is an even number of playerslots situation. At 7 players you should be worried about LyLo, but you specifically weren't.

Every time you go "Why would I as scum do this" just reaffirms my scumread. That's not a defense or justification for your behavior, that's a WIFOM deflection.

[T-Bone]

At this point, your slot has been full of scumminess. I know you can see ABR's play and see that it was scummy. It seems like to me you have been trying really hard to make up for that and it comes across and disingenuous to me. I'm not looking for you (or anyone) to tell me, point by point why everything you've done is town. I'm looking for you to just show me you are town with your play. It's something you have failed to do for me thus far.

[Bookitty]

Because what i thought Farside was scummy for had nothing to do with the game, and so I stopped scumreading her for it.

And what was that, precisely?

Why is HI one of your strongest townreads?

If you are town, you do need to explain yourself better. If you've made your case on me, surely you can provide me with a link to that case rather than pointing to "I'm so lost" Droog and saying, see, HE gets it.

Link me up, dude.

And MYLO, LYLO, whichever, it's semantics. If you're scum, I can't fault you for voting AV so quickly. But if you're town, you should be a lot more careful, and you've pretty well proven that you know that.

EBWONinjapost: What was scummy about ABR's play? And why, if you actually thought I was scum, would you be asking me to show you that I'm town? WTF, honestly?

[zoraster]

Prods sent to most players

[Untrod Tripod]

prod get!

at this point I'm thinking Bookitty is p scum

vote Bookitty

if I'm wrong, then I'm a perfect ohfer in this game and I'm sorry to the deadthread

[Bookitty]

You're wrong, UT.

But it's cool. I tried

[Bookitty]

You might try reading the last couple of pages, though, just to see what I mean.

[T-Bone]

Because it was a misunderstanding based on something that had nothing to do with the game.

Because he is. I can't imagine him being scum at this point.

I have explained myself very clearly, yes. I'm not trying to convince you that you're scum, you can check your role PM to see if I'm right or not.

I'm not going through the trouble of linking, you can just confirm through my ISO. But I have stated several times in #1357, #1357, #1370, #1371, #1374, #1401, #1404, and every other post on this page. I have said several times such as in #1357 "here's what I had a problem with in ABR-slot pre-replacement....in 1367 when I said "ABR showed clear scum thinking, in which I was referring to his surviving-scum mentality he demonstrated throughout the game (and I have mentioned that reason before), in 1371 when I say "I hate the hedging", #1374 when I crush you for saying "this is why you can't think I'm scum".

Basically I have clearly demonstrated things that were scummy with your play, and I have been calling your slot scum well before you ever replaced in. So don't try to tell me I'm not explaining myself, that I'm not showing any sort of progression in my reads, or that I have made no case, when I have clearly done ALL THOSE THINGS. Are you hoping that if you say "T-Bone has no case" enough that everyone will just forget I have posted about it ever?

The difference between my actions concerning MyLo and yours, is that I never feigned any sort of concern for it. It's MyLo....so? I'm very aggressive with my vote. And I only brought AV to L-2 (a player I felt just claimed scum for the world to see), so I wasn't concerned by a scum quick hammer. Here's the thing about 'being careful' in MyLo or LyLo, eventually you got to make a decision. You can't hem and haw forever. I wasn't going to hem and haw over it. I felt AV showed clear scumthink, and I voted him for it.

ABR didn't play with town motive. he admittedly pretty early on he was only interested in surviving. Next, yes if I think you're scum I want you to show me where I'm wrong. I don't want you to tell me why I'm wrong, I want you to show me through solid town play. If you're town then you have a chance to shine through the scumminess. Here's a crazy thought. I always think I can be wrong on my reads. GASP I know a lot of players don't do that, but I do. You weren't here for mine and Farside's argument on Day 1, but once she let me know that she had a problem with the use of certain words and it had nothing to do with the game I changed my read, because I was wrong reading her as scum for the wrong reasons. If you were town, I think you would have shown it by now. tbh I was reconsidering my position on your slot when you entered the game. I thought your catch-up was pretty solid, I thought your case on AV made sense coming from a town perspective. What you did afterwards regarding him, and regarding me, DOESN'T make sense from a town perspective. And that's where you showed me that you aren't coming from a town perspective.

I am crystal clear as day here.

[T-Bone]

That post by UT leaves a sour feeling in my mouth. Since when does you being wrong ever affect how you approach a game? You're better than that.

[Untrod Tripod]

look man, I'm having a really shitty month and I'm having a hard time with this right now because all my confidence is shifted to other aspects of my life. it feels like I'm just misfiring over and over again and I'm not sure how to stop

[Bookitty]

Scum would have a very strong motive for wanting to finish a wagon quickly on town. The speed of the votes on AV made me feel that he probably wasn't scum, because when scum make up nearly half the town (as I believe they do here) then any fast-wagon on anyone looks suspicious.

I don't honestly care if you call me scum or if you say you've made a case (though just saying ABR had a survivor mentality is crap; anyone can have a survivor mentality and his failure to send in any night actions for the last two nights completely disproves that, imo). It's possible you can get a lynch on me based on the general apathy and demoralisation of town. I'm not discounting that. But it doesn't change the fact that your case is crap and that it's built on ABR's boredom with this game and with my own attempt to prevent what I think would be a mislynch.

What SPECIFICALLY was the misunderstanding with Farside that had nothing to do with this game? Why did you read her as scum because of something that had nothing to do with this game? Are you saying that you read her as scum because she got pissed because you used the term harping? Really? That was your whole basis for a scumread that you pushed for pages?

Every way in which you have interacted with me argues that you know I'm town. Why would that be, if you really thought that I was scum?

[Bookitty]

The fact that UT is willing to vote me and not AV earlier is a bit weird and makes me wonder if I wasn't right in the first place

[Hostile Intent]

Bookitty. Vote AV. We need all town on a scum wagon. Parting our votes over several scum wagons isn't going to get us anywhere.

[Bookitty]

Okay. I just ISO-ed you (Hostile Intent) and I trust you as town. I was getting paranoid because of all the love for droog, but I still think that slot is scum too.

So okay. If UT is scum (which, maybe so, I have only seen him as town recently and it was different than he is in this game) then AV is scum. Which would actually probably make T-Bone town. (Imo the UT-AV thing is reciprocal; if AV is scum, so is UT.)

So if I assume T-bone town, HI town, that would argue that it's all town on the AV wagon (or, kuribo replaces droog on scumlist, but I am still stuck on the loverized thing).

Thinking.

Okay, correct me if my logic is wrong here:

If AV is scum, then T-Bone-scum would probably not have voted him in the first place. If he had, then the vote would probably have been sticky to ensure maximum towncred from bussing.
If AV is town, then T-Bone-scum would have no motivation to move his vote from town-AV (with more votes) to town-me (with no votes at that point).

So probably T-Bone isn't scum, for nearly the same reasons I gave for me not being scum earlier.

That's right, isn't it? Pretty sure that's right.

I need to check something about my role before I vote just in case there's a quickhammer. Posting this now so I don't page away from it accidentally.

[Bookitty]

Okay. I target a player at night. For that night and for the following day, if they would die, I die instead.

So it's safe to tell who was randomly targeted last night. It was Droog.

I HAVE to protect someone (hence the random targets chosen by the mod the last two nights). I don't see that I die if I target scum and I think I would die if targeted for the nightkill, so I can't figure out how to use this role as an investigative tool. It's just a straight shot bodyguard for lynches and kills as far as I can see.

If anyone else has an idea in that regard, please let me know.

[Bookitty]

VOTE: Aurorus Vox

[Aegor]

Bookitty, do you mind explaining why you were holding off the TBone vote? And then voted him after he voted you?

[Untrod Tripod]

Bookitty, do you mind explaining why you were holding off the TBone vote? And then voted him after he voted you?

this was a major cause for my vote tbqh