[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Riddleton]

so if water mafia dies, earth/fire docs claim, earth doc targets fire doc, and fire doc targers earth doc

[wgeurts]

That's why I said element isn't revealed on death.

[Cheery Dog]

That's why I said element isn't revealed on death.

Your latest edition has an error where that wasn't the case.

Although I think I'd rather see more mislynches for the town, you have the numbers right as no kills blocked won't lose the game with a scum lynch at 5:3.
Although if 2 kills are stopped the game is practically over at 4:3 even with a scum lynch, I guess it would play out if there were at least one correct elemental doctor alive.

I think you should go with a less complex approach first though with multiple macho doctors against multiple mafia kills.

[wgeurts]

That's why I said element isn't revealed on death.

Your latest edition has an error where that wasn't the case.

Although I think I'd rather see more mislynches for the town, you have the numbers right as no kills blocked won't lose the game with a scum lynch at 5:3.
Although if 2 kills are stopped the game is practically over at 4:3 even with a scum lynch, I guess it would play out if there were at least one correct elemental doctor alive.

I think you should go with a less complex approach first though with multiple macho doctors against multiple mafia kills.

Mmm, true.
I'm interested to see the setup in practice.

[Riddleton]

1 goon left, 3 docs

all docs claim, and do this at night:

water ->earth
earth-> fire
fire -> water

water vuln. to earth
earth vuln. to fire
fire vuln. to water

---

if earth dies, it's a fire goon still alive
water -> fire
fire -> water

still breakable

[wgeurts]

Mmm, mabye I should make the immunity to their own element 1-shot or take it away completely. Thoughts?

[wgeurts]

I'm thinking;

Elements

1 Fire Goon
1 Water Goon
1 Earth Goon

3 Element Doctors
1 Tracker
9 VT's

• Mafia element not revealed on death.
  
• Element Doctors choose 1 element to protect from that night.
  
• Mafia has two-faction kills, if only one member remains he takes both of them.

Doctor claiming wouldn't work and if only one claimed it wouldn't work either.

[LlamaFluff]

Mmm, mabye I should make the immunity to their own element 1-shot or take it away completely. Thoughts?

I would just take it away. The like the concept of 3x Mafia each with their own kill method + 3x Doctors, one that protects against each kill type. Its a low (but existing) chance of stopping a kill, but also some named townies.

Names townies are underused

[wgeurts]

Mmm, mabye I should make the immunity to their own element 1-shot or take it away completely. Thoughts?

I would just take it away. The like the concept of 3x Mafia each with their own kill method + 3x Doctors, one that protects against each kill type. Its a low (but existing) chance of stopping a kill, but also some named townies.

Names townies are underused

Thoughts on my most recent posted version?

[Riddleton]

I agree with Llamafluff, the immunity to their own element should be taken away, IMO.

With regards to your recent one posted, I'll have a look. I still think it can be broken with doctor trickery though, though I haven't checked in more detail.

[BBmolla]

Staring Contest 4P

4 Players

2 Mafia Goons

2 Vanilla Townies

• Nightless
  
• The first player lynched is not flipped. Even if town is lynched day 1, the game always continues into 3p and another lynch occurs which also doesn't flip.
  
• If the two remaining players are scum, they lose and town wins.
  
• If one is town, the other is mafia, the dead mafia is flipped. The townie must use this knowledge to privately "Shoot Air" or "Shoot Player." If he shoots the mafia, town wins. If he shoots air, town loses.
  
• If both are town, the dead mafia select one of the dead mafia to be flipped. The townies must use this knowledge to privately "Shoot Air" or "Shoot Player." If one of them shoots the other player, town loses. If both shoot the air, town wins.

Not technically mafia, less so than we need a fifth even obviously. Thinking of 4p ideas. Will balance more later.

[BBmolla]

I haven't found any flaws, obviously lynching all the mafia is not the ideal move unless both town are certain of each other, ideal mafia strategy is probably to get both of themselves lynched though.

[LlamaFluff]

Mmm, mabye I should make the immunity to their own element 1-shot or take it away completely. Thoughts?

I would just take it away. The like the concept of 3x Mafia each with their own kill method + 3x Doctors, one that protects against each kill type. Its a low (but existing) chance of stopping a kill, but also some named townies.

Names townies are underused

Thoughts on my most recent posted version?

Like Riddle is saying, its slightly breakable still through coordination. Works both ways though. All named town makes claiming harder for scum, but having the ability to choose the protection type can make it almost game breaking for town if scum does bad out the gate.

Basically its a swing factor. Naming townies (kill specific permanent doctors) creates a game where you are able to essentially predict the same level of balance either way. Creating the game where doctors can choose what kills they are protecting against makes it harder to win for scum if they lose a member, especially two members, early. Imagine the game where scum gets lynched lets say day one and on day two... last two doctors basically becomes BP and game is over. That many named town is already going to be hard for scum to combat.

[TierShift]

Bb, you should work on formulating the setup. It took me at least 3 minutes to see how it would actually play out.

If town is lynched day 1, the game continues into 3p and another lynch occurs which also doesn't flip.

This is not conditional, right? It always continues into 3p.

If both are town, the dead mafia select one of them to be flipped.

One of themselves. You should have said themselves.

On the setup itself...meh. It would be in scum's best interest to get themselves lynched twice, probably, which leads to a setup with what...two jesters?

And your avi...noooooooo pls

[Cheery Dog]

1 goon left, 3 docs

all docs claim, and do this at night:

water ->earth
earth-> fire
fire -> water

water vuln. to earth
earth vuln. to fire
fire vuln. to water

---

if earth dies, it's a fire goon still alive
water -> fire
fire -> water

still breakable

If town are able to kill two of the goons without losing a doctor, they've done well.
I'd get rid of the tracker though. I think it's too powerful even with macho status.

[BBmolla]

Bb, you should work on formulating the setup. It took me at least 3 minutes to see how it would actually play out.

If town is lynched day 1, the game continues into 3p and another lynch occurs which also doesn't flip.

This is not conditional, right? It always continues into 3p.

If both are town, the dead mafia select one of them to be flipped.

One of themselves. You should have said themselves.

On the setup itself...meh. It would be in scum's best interest to get themselves lynched twice, probably, which leads to a setup with what...two jesters?

And your avi...noooooooo pls

Yeah I'm bad at articulating sorry

If they make it too obvious, then town just no shoots and wins.

It's just not really mafia. I'm trying to think of more 4p "things" but I keep coming back to we need a fifth.

[BBmolla]

Staring Contest 4P

4 Players

2 Mafia Goons

2 Vanilla Townies

• Nightless
  
• The first player lynched is not flipped. Even if town is lynched day 1, the game always continues into 3p. Another lynch occurs which also doesn't flip.
  
• Once two players remain, the first lynched player is flipped.
  
• Any dead town members must guess who the other town member is. If all dead townies guess correctly, town wins.
  
• If there are no dead townies, town wins.
  
• Players may continue talking when it's the final two.

Probably better

[PokerFace]

@BBmolla, when 9P RITP ends I will get back in line for "Would you like to be my neighbor?"

Assuming no one sees big flaws with that setup before then

You can backup or play and can decide when you want. Running culdasac may be awhile if I can't talk zoraster into over looking some experience requirements given my illustrious marathon mod history and my face to face mod history at some conventions

[BBmolla]

You can run two micros at once

Yo come to titus meet in two weeks

[St Constantine the Hermit]

King's Civil War Mafia

2 Mafia Yakuza
1 Mafia Pretender

5 Vanilla Town

1 Loyalist King
1 Loyalist Recruiter
1 Loyalist Vig

- Mafia wincon: Win when the Loyalist King is eliminated and there are more mafia than loyalists
- Loyalist wincon: Win when the Pretender is eliminated and there are more loyalists than mafia
- Town wincon: Win when one faction is completely eliminated
- Loyalist Recruiter and 2 Mafia Yakuza's pick one player each to recruit before game begins
- Players recruited into the mafia or the loyalists wont know which faction they joined, just whom the king/pretender of the faction is
- If the loyalist recruiter, or a yakuza dies, all the players the person in particular recruited become vanilla townies again. This is not announced to the other players.

I've hosted this set up on another site before, and it got lots of positive reception. Does someone want to give it a go here?

[BBmolla]

Not mafia imo.

What if Loyalist's recruit Pretender?
What if Mafia recruit King?
Do Yakuza's die on recruitment like epicmafia?

I mean, I don't know what feedback you really want, any setup with a recruiting mechanic is going to be swingy as shit and get the bleh vote from me.

[BBmolla]

Also, once the vanilla townie leaves the faction, why can't he just out the king/pretender to get a confirmed scum lynch?

[BBmolla]

Loyalists also seem far stronger due to vig.

I assume Mafia and Loyalists both have factional nightkills or no?

[LlamaFluff]

Basically all of what BBmolla says. Also the fact that per your win condition a D1 lynch of either Pretender or King is lynched and the game is over as other faction just met their win condition.

[wgeurts]

Ok final revised version:

Elements

1 Fire Goon
1 Water Goon
1 Earth Goon

3 Elemental Doctors
1 Macho Tracker
1 Fruit Vendor
8 VT's

• Mafia have 2 faction-kills each taken by seperate players. If only one player remains he takes both kills.
  
• Elemental Doctors choose an element as well as a target, they only protect from that elements kills.
  
• Fruit Vendor targets one player each night and has no effect, however the tracker does see him target another player.
  
• If mafia dies they flip "Mafia Goon" not "(Element) Goon"
  
• All flavour should be the same for all goons.

This can't be broken here are the different claim scenarios:

• One doctor claims, the other two protect him. The protecting doctors don't know which elements the mafia still has (unless there are 3) and don't know what the other doctor will pick. 4 out of 9 chance that they choose different elements and then there's still one left unprotected
  
• The same applies to the other scenarios.

I added fruit vendor to nerf tracker slightly.