Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[Bulbazak]

This makes me think. You have never given me vibes like you're doing here. This is the first time I've not seen you pick fights and I'm reading that as town, but I don't know if I should.

I'm trying to take my time developing reads. Nothing's particularly jumping out at me so far, which is worrying me. I'm concerned that we might have a strong scum team on our hands.

[Nazarene]

Does this mean you're not done with quotewalls, then? :/

[Bulbazak]

Maaaybe...

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah, no. I've stated that I've found both jackal and shos votes to be awful and you've done both. On top of that, they're just a jump on a wagon. But that's not the main reason I'm voting you, that'd be the former coupled with your seemingly useful game start that really had nothing relevant in it.

Spoiler: Mastin-esque rant/explantion about myself that's too long to be unspoilered but important enough that I'm not deleting all of this

This is the point where I intentionally/unintentionally (or rather, try not to but probably do so anyways) play the "I've been on break and haven't touched this game as a player in nearly 9 months. I'm rusty!" card. I'm...going to try my damnedest to not play that card (even though it's empirically true; I only really came back because the first time I decided to click on my link to MS coincided with Bulb's Ikaruga game finally going into sign-ups, and prior to that there was a 5-6 month span from early-mid January to Jun where I pretty much never visited the site once).

That being said, making use of the early game in Mafia is not my strong suit. RVS is a bit too disjointed for me and it's very easy to apply the reason of nonsensicalness to everything you do as a potential smokescreen for scummy behavior that would be caught and questioned within 2-3 posts were it, say, D4 on page 50 (not to say that applies here, but I hope you get what I mean). I work better when the game is at a point where...well, it's a little hard to explain, but it's basically the point where I can begin to somewhat apply a logical argument to things. "Player X did Y because of Z reasons." "Player A voted B because of C reaction". I can see those arguments, I can look back at the thread, and I can understand how somebody did something and thus agree or disagree with it. Granted, I'd probably agree more that disagree if the pure logic behind it was good without looking deeper into how it's presented and whatnot, but that's something I need to work on both in-game and in RL, but yeah. Ideally that'd probably be around page 15 at the earliest, page...oh, 20/25 at the latest, though it may have to be at page 10, even, depending on how fast RVS can be considered "over" and how soon it goes from harping about supposed reasons in RVS to discussion on actual game-relevant topics that either come from RVS or from new points raised. My content from pages 1-5 or 6 (or 7) may not be overly useful because at that point I'm not at a position where I can reliably extract information and then present my views correctly. Or because I simply can't express the way I feel because I know what it feels like to me but I don't know how to put it into words that others will understand. Or simply because the way I play is probably too outdated and I'm ashamedly slow at picking up the new way of doing things.

This also ties into my new aversion to larges, both because D1's tend to get really inflated and because the sheer number of posters is so high that I get clogged with

pages

of stuff I have to readthrough due to my schedule (working from 8-9 in the morning to 2 or 4 in the afternoon, maybe an hour or two at home for lunch and spare time, then a 30 min. drive to Columbia, then I'm either going directly to class or I'm lucky to be having 7:45 classes like I have this term, then another 30 min. drive back, and then I'm trying to cram in some last-minute stuff before I try to go to bed at 11 which almost never happens and I get sidetracked and stay up till midnight. Yeah, I have consistency issues <_<). This in turn leads to me either skimming a large portion of that, and thus potentially missing an important event such as a claim or the start of relevant discussion, or I have to do what I'm (most embarrassingly, really) (in)famous for: Wallposts with lots of quotes, exacerbated by my tendency to try and find something to talk about in every post I see because I try to work from where I left off to where everyone is, and I don't often know what exactly is the most pressing topic so I gotta comment on

most

all of it. Might be a bad habit I do, but I'd also like to honestly avoid trying to sound like I'm parroting somebody if I happen to voice an opinion that's almost the exact same as what someone else says in page 7 of my catchup when I'm on page 2.

The fact of the matter is, I have a

lot

of baggage from when I first stopped playing that I may not have completely rid myself of now that I'm tentatively re-entering the pool of players. This game is really a bit of a learning game for me because I want to try to be some of the things that Mastin has posted about because I understand that she makes a whole lot of sense and I want to be a similar kind of person. That may take me forever, but I'm going to try regardless.

...That took longer than I thought to write (though lifting my hands from the keys to start articulating via my hands to people who can't see that

anyways

doesn't help), but the TL;DR version if you REALLY just want the essence of this (even though I think you should read it all anyways) is:

I'm going to get there. And even if I don't this game, it'll be experience for me next time. My early game isn't the best, and even if I try to truss it as better than it is I think even I realize that I'm only fooling myself and not everyone else.

Can you try to explain to me why Shos votes suck? (this also goes to Saurus, too; I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to read in 252 that's town unless you're referring to his tone)

p-EDIT: Bulb, quotewalls are supposed to be

my

job...

<<< Voided, you and I spent too much time hydraing, because your post here is

scarily

close to being me. >>>

[Voidedmafia]

If there's anything you really think I should talk about that I'm not (or if you want to be a helpful soul and give me points to talk about on my own), please do so. I probably won't get to them tonight but I should have time tomorrow.

[pirate mollie]

I am going to have to take some time and think about voidedmafia. this is so incredibly different from the voidedmafia that I experienced before.

did some1 steal your account?

[Doyouthinkhesaurus]

this is probably a result of me not yet being in the game. It takes me a while to remember by heart the players in the game, so in this case, I glossed and spit my opinions, and it didn't occur to me that the same person is the one who claimed 1s miller.

I would come and say that, at least for now, the 1s-miller claim prevails over that scumpost, so he'll stay in the townpile. This is an issue of the ones I like to call negligible because it'll solve itself with time.

Voided, I think this should explain your misgivings about shos and his jackel issues.

Anyway, let's not vote Voided for meta, shall we? It's pretty clear that's not going to work here.

To those who think he's scum,

where's the scum motivation in his posts? What, independently of what you know about him, seems scummy to you? Because I haven't seen that adequately explained.

[pirate mollie]

and the comment about stealing your account came across as bitchy and by all means I don't want to discourage the self-awareness process you have going on there I am just blown away by the maturity of it. what brought this on?

[Mathdino]

Can you try to explain to me why Shos votes suck? (this also goes to Saurus, too; I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to read in 252 that's town unless you're referring to his tone)

Yo, sorry, you should put my name at the beginning of a line or bold it so I don't accidentally ignore it

Basically, 252's whole "I hadn't considered that angle on my posts until Dino pointed it out" is incredibly town to me, I'd have expected scum to at least defend it or show some semblance of self-awareness. Furthermore a lot of it is in fact explained by his LA, including the jack(el)pedalling.

[Doyouthinkhesaurus]

Can you try to explain to me why Shos votes suck? (this also goes to Saurus, too; I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to read in 252 that's town unless you're referring to his tone)

Yo, sorry, you should put my name at the beginning of a line or bold it so I don't accidentally ignore it

Basically, 252's whole "I hadn't considered that angle on my posts until Dino pointed it out" is incredibly town to me, I'd have expected scum to at least defend it or show some semblance of self-awareness. Furthermore a lot of it is in fact explained by his LA, including the jack(el)pedalling.

Goddammit, was hoping I wouldn't do that.

[Nazarene]

shos wagon is not good. More later.

-A

[ProHawk]

I'm actually starting to get the opposite.

??

[Bulbazak]

To those who think he's scum,

where's the scum motivation in his posts? What, independently of what you know about him, seems scummy to you? Because I haven't seen that adequately explained.

Voided's pursuit of Shos based on his contradictory stance of Jackel feels off. Voided is essentially beating a dead horse on an issue that simple experience should tell him does not designate a scum slip. Shos is an easy wagon, and if town, would be the best mislynch to push through to limit information. Voided's push on Shos is for a BS reason and lacks the conviction I'd expect to see from town tunneling for a dumb reason. Simply put, Voided-scum doesn't want to get rid of such a tasty mislynch opportunity. There's also his treatment of Sonic, who he says "gives him bad feelings as well", although he's reluctant to really go further there. The language there is weak and only serves to open up an opportunity to jump on the Sonic wagon later, either to push that mislynch or to bus, which I think is most likely, given how Sonic would be a better no information lynch anyway and Voided is steering clear of it in favor of Shos.

Basically, 252's whole "I hadn't considered that angle on my posts until Dino pointed it out" is incredibly town to me, I'd have expected scum to at least defend it or show some semblance of self-awareness. Furthermore a lot of it is in fact explained by his LA, including the jack(el)pedalling.

How did you come to the conclusion of that statement being town instead of scum buddying you?

I'm actually starting to get the opposite.

??

Shos's play is reminding me a lot of Inuyasha.

[ProHawk]

See... that actually was the game I was going to compare it to, and it actually doesn't remind me of it at all. Maybe cause you had scum-blinders on? What part about it reminds you of the same Shos?

[ProHawk]

shos wagon is not good. More later.

-A

From what I recall, you and I didn't get along much. Call Tier over.

[ProHawk]

specifically when it comes to ProHawk, mollie, and Sonic.

Werent you all lovey dovey with Mollie earlier?

[Doyouthinkhesaurus]

@ProHawk: Yeah, until the wagon hopping. I am capable of changing my mind, you know.

@Bulba: You make good points on Voided, I'll keep that in mind. Want to see his response.
It doesn't really matter to me whose post shos was talking about; what matters is his being completely unaware and not even bothering to defend what he's done. It just doesn't strike me as something scum would do.

[Bulbazak]

See... that actually was the game I was going to compare it to, and it actually doesn't remind me of it at all. Maybe cause you had scum-blinders on? What part about it reminds you of the same Shos?

The style of sparse content and low activity is reminiscent of the early stages of that game. I guess this is where our experiences differ, since you have an entire game to refer to, while I only have the first day or so. I just get a weird sense of deja vu when reading his posts.

[shos]

Ok so I've read up the last two pages or so on the bus. It looks like all of a sudden everyone is calling me town and the wagon on me bad. while true, I think this is a good place to start looking. scum would probably try to push that wagon and when traction fades out will run away quickly and attack the ones still on. I'll make my full reread and analysis today evening (~7-8 hours from now) but in general, this is good.

[mastin2]

<<< Swear to god that VC is gonna come. Good news, I don't think exhaustion is going to be a problem anymore. Bad news, that came at the cost of me losing the entirety of today to rl stuff...

...And BBMolla has requested replacement. >>>

[mastin2]

<<< Good news! VCs are now up.
Bad news! It's nearly 3 am, and while I'm not exhausted, I probably SHOULD go to bed anyway.
I'm gonna have a lotta angry people at me for not getting anything done these last two days. >>>

[Voidedmafia]

and the comment about stealing your account came across as bitchy and by all means I don't want to discourage the self-awareness process you have going on there I am just blown away by the maturity of it. what brought this on?

This isn't something new, as far as expressing these points about myself goes; I had already mentioned the core problems with my play in some form or another back in the post-game of both Shadows and Lights and Marketplace Mafia III (incidentally both the last complete scum and towngames I've played, respectively, I think. Prior to leaving, anyways, since Lurker Mafia was a more recent towngame), and my perceived failures as a mod in Big Brother: Head of Household Mafia were what eventually pushed me to leave the site temporarily.

If you mean me actually

articulating in-indepth

about my problems and the attempts as of now to try and correct them, that post kinda started with me wanting to explain why I'm not an early-game person and just got a lot more words in there than I think I originally meant to have, and any sort of inhibitions I had about expressing anything about myself (which is a habit I tend to do regularly when talking about myself) were temporarily washed away by the needs of the topic at hand (which in turn seems to be the only way to temporarily break those inhibitions).

...Can't really try to put it any way other than that. Or at least I can't think of a better way.

Voided, I think this should explain your misgivings about shos and his jackel issues.

Huh. Completely missed that post somehow. Must've just skimmed it or something.

Okay, I can see Shos as town now, thanks.

Voided's pursuit of Shos based on his contradictory stance of Jackel feels off. Voided is essentially beating a dead horse on an issue that simple experience should tell him does not designate a scum slip. Shos is an easy wagon, and if town, would be the best mislynch to push through to limit information. Voided's push on Shos is for a BS reason and lacks the conviction I'd expect to see from town tunneling for a dumb reason. Simply put, Voided-scum doesn't want to get rid of such a tasty mislynch opportunity. There's also his treatment of Sonic, who he says "gives him bad feelings as well", although he's reluctant to really go further there. The language there is weak and only serves to open up an opportunity to jump on the Sonic wagon later, either to push that mislynch or to bus, which I think is most likely, given how Sonic would be a better no information lynch anyway and Voided is steering clear of it in favor of Shos.

You're right, Shos's statements are not indicative of a true scum slip. My problem lay less in the obvious disconnect of initially calling him scum then saying he's town, but the lack of any sort of noticeable and reasonable leap in logic to justify it. It's not like DGB's ridiculous leaps where you at least know he's got

something

to them but just won't say what. Also, not sure how I was talking about a dead horse topic when I was one of the ones who initially pointed it out.

As for Sonic...well, other than saying that there's just not really any substance behind anything they've said, I don't know what else to tell you. I just don't like them so far.

P-EDIT: SLEEP, DAMMIT, MASTIN!

<<< The action was never in question. How much was. >>>

[shos]

Alright lads, now that I've served all my papers for uni for this week, and that I've eaten, drank, took a dump(not really) and cleaned my room(LOL OBVIOUSLY NOT REALLY), I'm going to take care of other games(especially the one I'm modding) and then I'll be here to enjoy my obvtown status

[mastin2]

"I'm sorry. I can't deal with this insanity. Not now, anyway. I've got plenty enough in my life."
"Well, whadda ya gonna do about it? Just go up and leave?"
"...Pretty much, yeah."
But as fortune would have it, what goes out must come in. So on his departure,

BBMolla

crosses paths with

guille2015

, raises his hand, and the two high-five each other, effectively tapping Molla out and bringing guille in.

<<< guille2015 replaces BBMolla effective upon his posting. >>>

[mastin2]

The waves of the bumps go up and down, up and down, up and down, the waves of the bumps go up and down, all through the pa-ges...