Open 576.1: The Enemy of my Enemy is my...Enemy? (Game Over)


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:14 am

Post by dragonspawn »

Fink wrote:Ignore him Astinus! Please don't selfvote for towncred!

But okay Dragon, any idea what caused your gutread of riabi? He hasn't really said much so far.


I never suggested that astinus self vote to establish towncred. There is nothing for her to ignore.

I've already explained my read of riabi. I don't think he would have been so forthcoming and transparent about previous rolls if he was scum. Like how we communicated concerning the results of the report. No need to go into that much detail. My gut is telling me he is town.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:25 am

Post by dragonspawn »

Wait why are we at L2 with guile already? I don't know that he is town but I haven't see any strong reasons why he isn't.

what reasoning is there for him? And why are we rushing this wagon?
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:39 am

Post by Riabi »

dragonspawn wrote:Wait why are we at L2 with guile already? I don't know that he is town but I haven't see any strong reasons why he isn't.

what reasoning is there for him? And why are we rushing this wagon?

He's at L-3, not L-2. 2birds re-voted him after the most recent vote count, but if you read the vote count his vote is already there. As for the reasons, I'm not saying he's scum, but, I do want to put some pressure on him in hopes of seeing something more out of him. Also, see .
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:06 am

Post by guille2015 »

Oh wow, I got a wagon going. I didn't even notice. Let me catch up on this game, in a little while.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:40 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

Votecount 1.04:

Mastin2 - NJAC
GreyICE - Teen Girl, Astinus
2birds - dragonspawn
dragonspawn - Fink
Mathdino - guille
Guille - GreyICE, Mathdino, Riabi, 2birds
Fink - Mastin2

Not Voting - Nova, Egg

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-11-23 01:51:29) or by 11:50 PM on November 22nd, 2014.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:57 am

Post by guille2015 »

Mathdino wrote:^And I have a feeling this is a townslip.

If Grey wanted to tell his partner how to play, he'd say so in the scum PT.

i have been grey's partner once before and he never talked in the pre-QT and if I recall correctly that game had day talk, also, mastin was also playing as our partner, but Grey Ice didn't talk in the QT until Mastin replaced in. Also, Grey is not one to give any type of advice by telling their partner how to play.

However I get a feel for Astinus as town up to this point.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:04 am

Post by guille2015 »

Mathdino wrote:I trust Grey's read on mastin as a consequence of trusting Grey. Town so far is {Grey, mastin, dragonspawn, Astinus}.

I can't say for sure that mastin is town. I'd like to know why you think so.

I somewhat agree with you on grey. It would seem that he picked somebody at random but said random was not in the game. Like if he wasn't paying attention. However, he did not confirm before posting and thus we can't be sure that he even read his PM. I would keep an open mind on Grey.

I agree with your other two town reads.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:08 am

Post by guille2015 »

Oh right

UNVOTE: Mathdino
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:13 am

Post by guille2015 »

Nova-Radiance wrote:Sorry >_<

DS's logic while wrong, paints him as town so far. That logic get's you nothing as scum, besides the extra attention from the town when they point out faulty logic. Pointing out you have a town read on someone based on that fallacy first phase often leads to calling "buddying". If one if them is lynched, the other will probably follow.

This post is very worrysome to me. I don't trust Nova.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:16 am

Post by guille2015 »

GreyICE wrote:Fine.

Post #1: An extremely strong scum tell, in my experience. Saying "X is really good, he totally tricked me!" usually means "X beat me as scum once, and now I'm going to flip the tables".
Post #2: A correction that, as far as I can tell, was 100% wrong. So there's like not even a reason for this post to exist.
Post #3: Shoveling suspicion on someone without, again, really trying to see if it was right.

This is good scum hunting. Wrong. But good.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:26 am

Post by Riabi »

guille2015 wrote:
This post is very worrysome to me. I don't trust Nova.

Why?

I mean, like I said in the last game, I think he reminds me of the quiet guy at the poker table that you do not mess with unless you know you can beat him. But, that doesn't make him scummy. What is it about that post that worries you?
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:44 am

Post by guille2015 »

Ok, finished reading.

yeah, this game is muddied by the previous game. Most of the early game was talking about the previous game, which is unlikely to help us catch scum. Scum will just be honest about it. I think Math, Ast, and DS are town. But that's not know. I keep seeing Mastin as Null, unlike some players here like to see him as town.

@GreyIce.
Any thoughts on the other players. care to share who else you think is scum?

@TGS
: What do you think of GI now?

2Birds has done no contribution yet. Which is different than from last game. But since last game he was scum, it confuses me immensely.

@Riabi
: Is there anything in GI's argument that you agree the most with in 87?

Ok, Fink has lots and lots of words. But they are either repeating what everyone is saying, or not providing any additional information. I see no scumhunting other than saying that DS is maybe scum.

VOTE: Fink
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:50 am

Post by guille2015 »

Riabi wrote:
guille2015 wrote:
This post is very worrysome to me. I don't trust Nova.

Why?

I mean, like I said in the last game, I think he reminds me of the quiet guy at the poker table that you do not mess with unless you know you can beat him. But, that doesn't make him scummy. What is it about that post that worries you?

It's completely none compromising. He's basically saying (unless I misunderstood) that DS is buddying. So, I don't really know what Nova's post is trying to accomplish with that. Also, What's with the apology.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:50 am

Post by Teen Girl Squad »

Okay well once again saying/doing something silly in RVS hasn't gotten me much :I Oh well.

@Fink, Why would I have wanted to vote for Mastin over Grey?

I'm not really buying Mathdino's townslip. I'm not saying he's scummy, I'd put him at null for the time being, but the last game proved Mathdino knew what he was doing enough that he could totally fake a townslip.

I like Astinus's play so far, have a slight gut town read on her. She seems like she's genuinely trying to scumhunt and improve from the last game.

Dragonspawn makes a pretty good point about Riabi not wanting to go into so much detail about his scum strategy if he was scum in this game, and since I was Riabi's scumpartner in ~The Game That Never Was~ I can confirm that he's being honest and am inclined to also townread him. Dragon I'm less sure about, but if nothing else he seems less scummy than in the first game so far. As far as the whole Gambler's Fallacy thing everyone pointed out, I could see him saying that as town or scum.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:55 am

Post by Fink »

Teen Girl Squad wrote:@Fink, Why would I have wanted to vote for Mastin over Grey


I don't think you'd have any particular reason. Just they had the same number of votes at that point for your get-reactions-off-a-wagon tactic, and I was wondering if you had any reasons for one or the other, or just flipped a coin or went with the most recent vote or whatever. Was hoping there were reasons.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:07 am

Post by Fink »

guille2015 wrote:Ok, Fink has lots and lots of words. But they are either repeating what everyone is saying, or not providing any additional information. I see no scumhunting other than saying that DS is maybe scum.


As the lone push on Dragon, which is what I've spent the most words on, I fail to see how that's repeating what anyone is saying. What exactly is scumhunting if not pushing one's read and asking questions?

But yeah apparently no one eles suspect Dragon, and his last few posts have been pretty good (I'm still suspicious).

guille2015 wrote:He's basically saying (unless I misunderstood) that DS is buddying. So, I don't really know what Nova's post is trying to accomplish with that. Also, What's with the apology.


This bizzaro interpretation of Nova's calling Dragon town as Nova accusing Dragon of buddying doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone could get from reading Nova's post and trying to figure out if he was town or scum. It
does
seem like the kind of thing someone could come up with when skimming back in the thread and trying to justify a bullshit read. And the "unless I misunderstood" gives nice cover for someone calling him out on this, if it turns out not to make sense, as if he suspects that maybe it doesn't.

VOTE: Guille

That's L-2
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:09 am

Post by Teen Girl Squad »

@guille, I guess I'm mostly null on Grey at the moment. I like his vote, but his interaction with Mastin is a little weird to me. Although Mastin in general so far this game is a little weird to me. I have to read her more closely, I fully admit to scrolling past her last giant post. But I don't like the piece of meta Grey and Mastin both point out, where they both say if she was scum she wouldn't have said her arguments were BS.

Speaking of, your stance on Grey seems kind of... non-committal?

guille2015 wrote:I somewhat agree with you on grey. It would seem that he picked somebody at random but said random was not in the game. Like if he wasn't paying attention. However, he did not confirm before posting and thus we can't be sure that he even read his PM. I would keep an open mind on Grey.


This seems like a really roundabout way of saying "null". It almost looks like you've phrased it that way intentionally, so that you can make it mean whatever you want later.

@Grey, how you feelin about Guille's recent posts?
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:16 am

Post by Teen Girl Squad »

Fink wrote:
Teen Girl Squad wrote:@Fink, Why would I have wanted to vote for Mastin over Grey


I don't think you'd have any particular reason. Just they had the same number of votes at that point for your get-reactions-off-a-wagon tactic, and I was wondering if you had any reasons for one or the other, or just flipped a coin or went with the most recent vote or whatever. Was hoping there were reasons.


I actually didn't even see that Mastin had the same number of votes until after I posted, I thought Grey was the only wagon with two votes on it.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:21 am

Post by Mathdino »

dragonspawn wrote:I never suggested that astinus self vote to establish towncred. There is nothing for her to ignore.

I've already explained my read of riabi. I don't think he would have been so forthcoming and transparent about previous rolls if he was scum. Like how we communicated concerning the results of the report. No need to go into that much detail. My gut is telling me he is town.

This is bad logic. Probably still town.

guille2015 wrote:
Nova-Radiance wrote:Sorry >_<

DS's logic while wrong, paints him as town so far. That logic get's you nothing as scum, besides the extra attention from the town when they point out faulty logic. Pointing out you have a town read on someone based on that fallacy first phase often leads to calling "buddying". If one if them is lynched, the other will probably follow.

This post is very worrysome to me. I don't trust Nova.


Nova's post was good. This is also bad logic.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:32 am

Post by Mathdino »

by Riabi is good and pro-town. Null-town on Riabi for now.

@guille: mastin is town because of the tells Grey pointed out, and the fact that her logic is more irrational, less manufactured.

@TGS: I act like I'm experienced and my join date says I'm experienced but at the end of the day I'm still a newb who has no idea what he's doing :P
I don't like your not-liking of the meta argument, it seems pretty solid to me.

Fink's last post is REALLY pinging me.
Fink wrote:
guille2015 wrote:Ok, Fink has lots and lots of words. But they are either repeating what everyone is saying, or not providing any additional information. I see no scumhunting other than saying that DS is maybe scum.


As the lone push on Dragon, which is what I've spent the most words on, I fail to see how that's repeating what anyone is saying. What exactly is scumhunting if not pushing one's read and asking questions?

But yeah
apparently no one eles suspect Dragon
, and his last few posts have been pretty good (I'm still suspicious)
.

guille2015 wrote:He's basically saying (unless I misunderstood) that DS is buddying. So, I don't really know what Nova's post is trying to accomplish with that. Also, What's with the apology.


This bizzaro interpretation of Nova's calling Dragon town as Nova accusing Dragon of buddying doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone could get from reading Nova's post and trying to figure out if he was town or scum. It
does
seem like the kind of thing someone could come up with when skimming back in the thread and trying to justify a bullshit read. And the "unless I misunderstood" gives nice cover for someone calling him out on this, if it turns out not to make sense, as if he suspects that maybe it doesn't.

VOTE: Guille

That's L-2

This bizarro interpretation of guille pointing out something no one else had doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone could get from reading guille's post and trying to figure out if he was town or scum. It
does
... blah blah blah.
Your logic is bad, but while guille's logic was bad, yours is fishy. At least guille's scumhunting.
UNVOTE: guille
VOTE: Fink

Guess it's time to check up on that meta.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:45 am

Post by Riabi »

guille2015 wrote:
@Riabi
: Is there anything in GI's argument that you agree the most with in 87?
VOTE: Fink

I think to break apart that post into pieces takes away from it's value. IMO, it is really only compelling as an argument as a full post. Any one of the posts he mentions is null by itself, but, when put together, they seem suspicious to me. That said, I think you've been more townish since that point.

Fink wrote: It
does
seem like the kind of thing someone could come up with when skimming back in the thread and trying to justify a bullshit read. And the "unless I misunderstood" gives nice cover for someone calling him out on this, if it turns out not to make sense, as if he suspects that maybe it doesn't.
That's L-2

I don't buy this. I don't see a problem with saying that you accept the possibility that you are misinterpreting something. Especially considering he's already been called out for an apparent misinterpretation.

At this point, dino is absolutely feeling town to me, probably TGS is too, but to a lesser degree than dino. Guile and Fink both seem odd... I'm not yet convinced that their oddness is scummy, but it very well could be.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:53 am

Post by Mathdino »

Oh hell Fink's scum meta is him replacing in during LyLo and writing up cases on why 1 guy's town and 1 guy's scum.
Something tells me that's not as applicable.

Yeah I can't use this. The game where he replaced in D1 gives me townvibes, but other than that, no real trends.

Riabi, jump on the Fink wagon. guille is contributing and hopefully will continue to do so; that wagon doesn't have much utility anymore.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:13 am

Post by Riabi »

Mathdino wrote:
Riabi, jump on the Fink wagon. guille is contributing and hopefully will continue to do so; that wagon doesn't have much utility anymore.

guille is definitely contributing more, and I should have jumped off his wagon in my last post.

UNVOTE:

I'm not convinced that fink is scum yet, I need more time on that. I think I need to ISO him when I get enough time to dedicate to that.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:24 am

Post by GreyICE »

I get the weirdest feelings from Guile's posts. Not a fan.

Math, what do you mean by "his logic is bad, but yours is fishy?"

P.S. Meta is shit
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:25 am

Post by Egg »

Mathdino, why would it be a townslip for GreyICE to make a mistake with the playerlist?

I like Mastin's first post. Those questions could be very helpful. Buuuut. Wouldn't Mathdino's so called townslip just be slipping that he was town in the last game? Or even scum who didn't get a chance to talk pregame? I don't think it's telling for this game.

Riabi's post about being scum the first time looks town
because of all of the details he gives
. However, it's easy to post for town points and change the way he crumbs. So it's weak town points. UPDATE: Ok, so the details were for the game that never happened. That diminishes this much more than the chance that he wanted town points diminished it. Maybe to the point of not even being a town tell anymore.

Scum vibes from Dragonspawn. GreyICE seems to have seen why, although he may not see it as being intentional. I do. lol 2birds too. And Mathdino. And Fink is finally the one to nail it.

Mathdino, why do you think the above about dragonspawn comes from town?

GreyICE, while I personally find everything in your post 26 to be obvious, others may not, And they may be scum. Why are you sharing optimal scum strategy?

Fink, you asked how often I'll check in. I'll try to make an appearance every two days at most. The amount of content I can post depends on the pace of the game.

Interested to see if Teen has reasons why Grey is scum. I'm sure it's been asked already, so consider this me noting it.

Mathdino, (post 50) telling scum who to shoot isn't so bad here because it benefits both town and scum for scum to try to shoot the other scum team.

Astinus (post 51), have you figured out dragon's stuff yet? If not, let me know when you do. And if GreyICE wanted to tell his partner how to play, why not make a post in their QT/PT? As for my V/LA, why would I lie in all of my other games and stop posting in discussion threads just to strategically lurk as scum here for the first time in roughly 300 games? Doesn't that seem like a stretch?

Mathdino (post 76), I actually think all of those possibilities exist. What do you think of his play outside of this tell? Do you see town thinking in his posts? I don't.

Fink's post 84 looks genuine and transparent. Town unless he is very confident in his scum play.

Astinus wrote:I self-voted because I had read in the wiki that it might be helpful

^This is why the wiki sucks.

Mastin, I think I know what you are trying to say about the Gullie wagon. I don't see a case. It seems like he's being voted for being a non-entity. Why not vote me in that case? Or anyone else who isn't active? However, the players on the wagon aren't overly scummy. It just seems like everyone is misguided. But in a game with two teams, most any mislynch will probably be more misguided than with ill intent. It's interesting to note the wagon, but I don't see anything specific I can pick out of it without more development.

Huh. Wanted to townread Fink until his Gullie vote.

So, right now my scum reads are weak at best, but:
Vote Dragonspawn
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