I'm not gonna be that guy who gets all cheeky and includes myself in my reads lists and is all like "Well I'm town,
obviously
". Not my style, haha.
Fink is scum, pretty sure. Moving on.
Nova's reads list and explanation of it just look super natural to me, and I can see how he'd have difficulty trusting his reads at this stage. I think scum might show more conviction.
Grey I believe I explained. His opening post seems like a townslip, he as scum wouldn't essentially give tips on how to play the game as scum, his read on guille was good, and his defending mastin who happens to be scumreading is townish.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
I don't see why genuine frustration makes someone town. It's called playing to people's emotions. Instead of actually thinking of shit to say in my defense it's much easier to say "I'm really frustrated with this game I just can't catch up and you guys have attacking me."
Make that much longer and drawn out anyone can sound frustrated.
↑Mathdino wrote:If the game was daystart, how would the former scum get a chance to talk about anything?
Aaaaand, you townslipped again. Standard moderating procedure is to allow scum to talk to their scumbuddy during the pregame. (Oh, and the scum obviously had N1 in the original game.)
ive been over this several times
i dont see how its a townslip
Mathdino wrote:Grey I believe I explained. His opening post seems like a townslip, he as scum wouldn't essentially give tips on how to play the game as scum, his read on guille was good, and his defending mastin who happens to be scumreading is townish.
Oh, shit, yeah, okay, Grey can be on the town pile too.
I don't think I can stress how strong my Fink townread is. He was so legitimately frustrated, he fucking knew he was town and just couldn't believe he wouldn't be townread.
At this point, I'm seeing enough townies that I'm happy to simply lynch between everyone else and let the game sort itself out.
Forgot to say something to Nova.
@Nova: Yeah, I know frustration isn't alignment indicative. Fink was frustrated. Yours just seems more honest, more genuine. Also the self-aware statement you made about yourself last page rings 'town' to me.
@2birds: Eh, I guess I could go for Riabi or TGS out of PoE but I don't really have scumreads on them. Let's see what happens after more discussion.
@droog:
you uh
might want to
read the previous game
itll tell you a lot
about the playerlist
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Mathdino, I used to agree with you that scum pay more attention. I feel like you have to. You need to be in complete control of the game as scum. Make sure lynches go how you want. Get people's reads where you want them Etc. Except not everyone plays the same way. The whole "skate by" thing exists. I denied it for the longest time, but people do it. Why did Grey's play look like "careful scum" and not just a townie who is paying attention? Your posts look pretty townish, but I don't like your stance on dragonspawn. It looks sketchy if dragon is scum. It's like you are calling him town, but trying not to do it blatantly. You said you were going to re-read him though, so if you haven't already just let me know when you do and what comes up.
Everyone that is saying Fink looks different than in the other game, can you elaborate on that? What specifically looks different?
Astinus (post 129), I'll hold you to it.
Riabi, maybe I misread then. I thought you were talking about the game that never started when you replied to Mastin.
Fink, my knee jerk reaction to your Gullie vote was that it looked like an out of nowhere opportunistic vote with a hint of OMGUS. I actually like your response though.
Mastin, you suck at reading me. To say you know my meta is a blatant lie. I once called you scum for having an non-genuine town read on me. I was right. You once claimed to have a read on me before I posted. And I don't even know what game you are talking about with "the last open". I think it's more an ego thing than anything alignment indicative, but your confidence in reading me lately seems very feigned. You just aren't good at it. At all. Figures you'd be wrong here too.
Dragon, I felt that you were trying to subtly tell us you can't be scum because you rolled scum twice and it's impossible to roll scum three times. But you did it using Riabi. You applied the logic on him and just snuck in the fact that it applies to you too. It's not just that gambler's fallacy is bad logic. It's the way you used it. As for your suspicion on me, I didn't even take you seriously. As for Fink, I liked his line of questioning and could follow his logic. It looked town. The Gullie wagon up to that point didn't look like it had obvscum on it at all. Then came Fink's vote. It looked bad. However, he has since given a good explanation for it.
2birds, what about Gullie's reaction to a wagon looks town?
Mathdino, you're not entirely wrong, but what gave you the impression that I was townreading Mastin in my first post? All I said was that I liked the questions. I liked them because they can make scum uncomfortable which could lead to a telling awkward post. With two teams, it makes sense for either town or scum to do that. I also questioned Mastin's read on you.
2birds, I find it interesting that you seem to have the same mentality on scum play here compared to a normal game. In the last game, did you not view the other team as a threat? This seems especially weird when they have the one power role that is a threat to you. Just sayin'. Like, scum should be shooting for scum every night. I say that anyway in games with two teams, but it seems especially true here. They have two chances to ruin your game that town doesn't have. Their kill and their investigation. Combine that with day play and they are a triple threat where town is just a single threat.
Mathdino, did I miss something? You mentioned the game waiting on Mastin and myself. What exactly are you looking for from me other than just my input?
Okay Egg, I'm sorry for not getting back to you earlier about Dragon's math. To be honest, I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I think it looks scummy because he's trying to say there's no way he could be scum three times in a row. Maybe he's trying to make himself look not suspicious.
I could sneeze at the wrong time and some of you would find it suspicious. I'm an easy suspect since my playstyle has the habit of rubbing people the wrong way. Of the games I've played here I've been suspected 75% of the time. I think scum aee me as an easy lynch for some reason. That's the nature of the game. But I found I get results most of the time so I'm not going to change.
Why is Grey's post about how to play as scum scummier than that? I'm not trying to criticize your vote. Just, you are very close to seeing what I see and I want to walk you through it and see if you agree like I think you will:
Grey, as I see it: Yes, the post was bad. Yes, scum can benefit off of it and town really can't. But look at it from the point of view of Grey if he is scum. What did he do? Decide to tell his scum buddy blatantly in thread in front of everyone how to play? Two issues. Why not post it in the PT/QT where only his buddy can see it? If he didn't get to it in time, was it really important enough to risk outing himself like that? Probably not. Second issue. Someone (I forget who) mentioned being scum with Grey before. That person got no help from him. Why help here, but not there? It's a bad post, but not a scummy one.
Dragon, as I see it: I think he was intentionally trying to mislead us. He provided false evidence for town reading Riabi for something that applies to himself as well. This would benefit him as scum. It shows ill intent.
Basically, intentional misleading shows a scum mindset. A reckless post that could benefit scum doesn't.
Preview edit: None of that makes you town though. Also, I've never played with you so I'm not aware of that meta. But being suspected is part of the game. Someone is going to call you scum at least once in almost every game. It's how you respond to it that matters. As for this game, see above. I've presented a reason why I think you've shown a scum mindset. You have failed to properly dispute that.
↑Egg wrote:In the last game, did you not view the other team as a threat?
I value the extra early-game kills; I was planning on gunning for scum starting from N2ish. I'm not particularly scared of investigations, either, to be honest; I just have to try and not be an investigation target.
↑Egg wrote:2birds, what about Gullie's reaction to a wagon looks town?
↑guille2015 wrote:Oh wow, I got a wagon going. I didn't even notice. Let me catch up on this game, in a little while.
He simply doesn't give a shit about it. He's like "Eh, wagoned, happens". Eh, it's a bit of a weak tell (it's something I very deliberately try and do as both alignments), but I never really had a scumread to begin with, so it was enough for me.
Dragonspawn, who's your strongest scumread and why? (Oh shit, I'm being
