Open 576.1: The Enemy of my Enemy is my...Enemy? (Game Over)

[Nova-Radiance]

Curious what your problem with my post voting Fink is Mastin. Definitely not the strongest post ever made, but it definitely wasn't bullshit and was actually based on previous evidence. Some of the post was already stated information of course but I also gave new thoughts on the guille situation in relation to Fink.

[Nova-Radiance]

GreyICE actually makes really good points in post #233.

Now at first I didn't believe Fink's post about beinb frustrated/ didn't think it was indicative of town. But the post really matches the style of writing when he was angry at Mathdino in post #128.

Now the thing that got Mathdino's vote on Fink in post #119. After reading my post and guille's response, it really was reaching as I never said DS was buddying.

Mathdino called Fink's logic fishy, but I see for no reason why it was any worse than guilles bad logic that no one who really read that would get.

And the entirety of page 6, Fink concisely explained his reasoning for his guille vote. He's consistent with it, and he explains why he switched it. While I personally don't agree woth his logic on guille, multiple times the town has allowed scummy play based on bad reasoning, what's different?

I was pretty set in my initial reasoning on Fink, but in hindsight the posts in context make sense. And I have taken a look at the game and read the ISO's of a lot of the players which explains some behavior. I don't think we should lynch Fink.

Unvote:Fink

And I have things to say about Egg too.

[Teen Girl Squad]

Okay! Here! doing my catchup! woo party

[Nova-Radiance]

Now with Egg Mastin already ripped apart what we can draw the most information from.

But I'll say things anyway. Egg first posted how he thought Fink's post #84 was genuine and thus read him as town. But he then goes on to say he was going to townread Fink until the guille vote. I agree with Mastin, a very weird way to respond to a read.

And while this really isn't fact, some of his very minor posts put ke off. Like his little interaction with Mathdino about not townreading himself. Egg seems to be forceful in trying to mingle and appear a friend. To look town.

Additionally, the tone of Egg's posts saying that mastin is bad at reading him. You

suck

at reading me.

You just aren't good at it. Figures you'd be wrong here too.

Those words really seem to just trash mastin's ability more than point out flaws. And that bothers me.

Vote:Egg

[Mathdino]

2birds was the one that was talking to me about not having myself in my own townpool.

Furthermore, the majority of mastin's read on Egg is based on meta and what she knows of 'town Egg'. So "you don't know town Egg" is a valid rebuttal.

I feel like you're switching wagons for the wrong reasons. Was townreading you up until this page.

[Nova-Radiance]

But it's not just the response, it's the way he responded. It's the way he's started posting. Reading all of his posts really don't paint a picture of town for me. Is it a Da Vinci of scum either? No. But Egg is a better option than Fink.

[Nova-Radiance]

And my apoligies for not fact checking my information. I was mixing your conversation with 2birds with when Egg asked are you scum.

[Teen Girl Squad]

Spoiler: large horrible stream-of-conscious catchup post

-Okay, so I remember trying to pull some RVS shenanigans that didn't work, kept my vote on GreyICE cause he was a null read and I wanted to take a closer look at my scumreads before I made my mind up.

-Oh right I was weirded out by Grey/Mastin interactions and meta-talk, too.

-Guille was my biggest scumread before i fell off the thread for a while. Felt like his reads were very wishy-washy and worded very carefully to make sure he looked good if/when they turned out wrong.

@TGS: I act like I'm experienced and my join date says I'm experienced but at the end of the day I'm still a newb who has no idea what he's doing
I don't like your not-liking of the meta argument, it seems pretty solid to me.

Well I DON'T LIKE THAT YOU DON'T LIKE THAT I DON'T LIKE ETC ETC

I'm not sure if anyone has said this or not already, but doesn't being aware of and stating your meta negate it? It proves that you're thinking about your own meta enough that you could easily play against it and then point it out for town cred. Lots of experienced players have made this argument before, so it surprises me that Grey and Mastin, who as far as I know are both pretty experienced, would rely on a meta argument to prove they're both town, and it makes me wonder if they're a scumteam.

-Okay so Mathdino's argument for scum!Fink is that Fink is scumreading guille without trying to figure out if he's right or not. Meh. I don't agree that Fink's acting scummy.

-Riabi's unvote of guille is also a little weird to me. He said it was because guille's been contributing, but I actually started finding guille scummier the more he posted.

P.S. Meta is shit

-Egg's catchup post looks okayyyy to me, i guess? but I notice that he says he found Fink town until Fink voted for guille, but doesn't mention anything about guille in the rest of his post. I'll see if that comes up later.

-aaand now we have a full page of Fink and Mathdino going at it

-I'd say Mathdino comes off looking worse at the end of it, I just don't find Fink scummy and I don't understand why Mathdino does. Looking back at the Nova-Guille exchange, I'm inclined to side with Fink and say Guille still looks scummy. Honestly, I think the entire misunderstanding thing is moot, anyway, Guille looked scummy to me, anyway.

-I think 2birds is town. Admittedly this is a gut feeling mostly, and I don't know if he's right about Mastin or not (i just cannot read mastin for shit she is an enigma to me *shakefist*) but his posts just look genuine to me.

Okay so here's a thing:

Grey I believe I explained. His opening post seems like a townslip, he as scum wouldn't essentially give tips on how to play the game as scum, his read on guille was good, and his defending mastin who happens to be scumreading is townish.

Mathdino, your vote on Fink has a lot to do with his vote on Guille, but you liked Grey's read of Guille. If nobody's asked this already, could you please elaborate on what was better about Grey's read?

-Honestly I think Mathdino could be scum but he's also the most active player in the game so maybe it's just because his posts are the only ones I'm reading.

-and then... we have... lots of non-posts. Especially from Guille. man, you wanna talk about skating by. like four posts in a row and they're totally contentless.

-god why is everybody's posts so angry-sounding in this game. i'm so used to newbie games where people are generally trying to be polite ; ~;

-I wasn't sure if I'd agree with her but Mastin's read on Egg is good, got me thinking about a bunch of things about Egg's intro I hadn't considered and also brought up the same weirdness that I pointed out earlier in this massive post.

Gonna wait until tomorrow to clear my head and put a vote down, for now I'm gonna go cry some more!!

[Teen Girl Squad]

oh fuck, there's a Grey quote in the middle of that post that should have more explanation...

ugh i'll get to it tomorrow

[mastin2]

I owe you commentary from 193 onwards, but for the time being, I did read ahead a bit.

I'm not sure if anyone has said this or not already, but doesn't being aware of and stating your meta negate it?

If you actually read my post, you'd see my answer. The answer is,

kind-of

.

it surprises me that Grey and Mastin, who as far as I know are both pretty experienced, would rely on a meta argument to prove they're both town.

Point of clarity: I never once used meta to argue I was town. I rambled about my own meta, after being asked about it, but it was not used as a defense.[/quote]

Curious what your problem with my post voting Fink is Mastin. Definitely not the strongest post ever made, but it definitely wasn't bullshit and was actually based on previous evidence. Some of the post was already stated information of course but I also gave new thoughts on the guille situation in relation to Fink.

You seem to be writing a lot of words on why I'm suspicious of you. But funnily enough, I'm reasonably certain none of what you're saying, I've actually said about you.

Additionally, the tone of Egg's posts saying that mastin is bad at reading him. You

suck

at reading me.

You just aren't good at it. Figures you'd be wrong here too.

Those words really seem to just trash mastin's ability more than point out flaws. And that bothers me.

Wham-line, time:
If I told you someone else was giving that same attitude, how would that influence your opinion? I'm speaking, naturally, of...none other than GreyICE. If it bothers you for Egg...what about for GI?

mastin, I'd like you to explain the issue with Nova and GI. Not once have you really said what's off about them.
Also, why switch?

When it comes to GI, it's a bunch of little gut things. Mainly having to do with his handling of me and other players. The things others are saying are so, "omg so town wow!!!" about GreyICE are in my experience null or perhaps even scumtells for him. Do I hold much confidence in the read, no. However, I do hold it as a read, especially given POE. He's the type of scum who'll get nightkilled, AND the type of scum that will help us catch scum, AND my lack of confidence means he could be town, thus why I'm not really focusing on him, but the read's there.

Nova's mainly just slight pings here and there of gut, particularly of maybe interactions. They probably don't amount to much, which is why he's the weakest of the reads.

Now I need to go back to 193 and the bits I haven't talked about.

[mastin2]

Oh.
You might as well have my readslist, such as it is.

Mathdino
dragonspawn
Riabi
Astinus

Teen Girl Squad
guille2015

2birds

Nova
NJAC

GreyICE
Egg
Fink

Pretty obvious. Top-town, still-town, thinking-town, weaker-reads, scumreads.

[mastin2]

*Replace NJAC with droog, obviously.

[Nova-Radiance]

You said the post I voted Fink was weak and you were suspicious of me because of it originally. I assumed you were suspicious of the fact it was a weak jump on the wagon. And a three line response sure is posting a lot about it.

Grey hasn't been dismissive. I'm not voting Egg for a 'tude, I'm voting him because of how dismissive he was of you and his strange Fink post.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 1.1:

GreyICE - Teen Girl
Guille - Fink
Fink - guile, Mathdino
dragonspawn - Egg
Egg - GreyICE, Mastin2, 2birds, Nova

Not Voting - Riabi, dragonspawn, droog, astinus

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-11-23 01:51:29) or by 11:50 PM on November 22nd, 2014.

[GreyICE]

Oh.
You might as well have my readslist, such as it is.

Mathdino
dragonspawn
Riabi
Astinus

Teen Girl Squad
guille2015

2birds

Nova
NJAC

GreyICE
Egg
Fink

Pretty obvious. Top-town, still-town, thinking-town, weaker-reads, scumreads.

As usual, there's two scum in your top town reads.

[GreyICE]

Actually, full stop, what the FUCK is Riabi doing in a town read.

And don't tell me "POE" or I'll throw a coconut at you.

[Voidedmafia]

Searching for a replacement for Fink.

[GreyICE]

'Kay I want to say that supports my read.

[Astinus]

I think the newbie meant that she's trying to get one of the OTHER townies lynched and protecting her buddy. Mastina does loath bussing, but she's town.

So I'm the "newbie" here, huh? Interesting, considering this is my fourth game of mafia so far. But anyways...

How can you be absolutely positive mastin is town? She could just be scum who knows how to talk like town.
Since you seem to be backing up your potential scumbuddy, I am going to cat my vote again...

VOTE: GreyICE

[Astinus]

Also, I am aware that I may seem to be saying much of the same things over and over when it comes to picking out people as scum. I apologise for that, it's just that I'm still working on scum- and town-reading.

[droog]

astinus' last post reads massively town to me

[2birds1stone]

Fucking...

Astinus, what are you doing?

Definitely town, though, again.

[Astinus]

I'm offering my thoughts on who I think is scum. And trying to contribute to this game.

[Nova-Radiance]

It's the fact what you just said about Grey is flawed. It's good to offer your thoughts.

[Voidedmafia]

Bump