Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[Mathdino]

Ika - Null (chewing the fat and thinking. Cause nothing springs out as to fall on either side of the spectrum imo)
Sonic Boom - Town/Null (purely gut on this one)

Explain in more detail both of these. Also explain how gut compels you to read the heads differently.

@guille:

Do you mind explaining your reads on ika and SonicBoom, given that you clearly have way more conviction than almost anyone else? The SB one is obvious given recent posts, but I would like to know your basis when you entered the game.

@Bulb:

Do you actually believe the claim? What reasons do you have for voting EF given that posts 448 ff. seem to suggest an associative tell between them; or should I take the vote as an accusation that EF is whiteknighting the SB slot? I am a bit confused about your thought process.

I am really not sure whether the cop claim is enough to ignore OMGUS nonsense, whatever this is, and this. Having played with MS, I have experienced slews of random posts, but the most recent ones are just scummy.

VOTE: SonicBoom

My other head is more apprehensive because of the claim, but I am simply not buying it.

-A

This Head is very disappointed with this deadline wagon. This Head hates all deadline wagons.

This Head is even more disappointed that obv-scum SB is not being lynched because he claimed a PR, which is setting a precedent that makes it easy for scum to get through Day 1 intact.

Nevertheless, the Heads want a lynch, but this Head at least will be on before deadline, so the Heads currently have no interest in changing our vote.

Vote voided.

-A

828 is fundamentally correct and at the worst we net a scum in SB, who should have been lynched anyway.

Again, are you aware that this game may have multiple cops?

Possible =/= likely. I would be more than willing to bet my Head and my other Head that if you flip cop, SB will flip scum. The point is that I am 60-40 against believing your claim and 100-0 against believing SB's. The fact that multiple cops may exist is irrelevant if I happen not to believe the claims in the first place. And my other Head is pretty sure you are scum. I would rather have SB's head in the noose. Especially given that we replaced a claimed cop with a claimed cop.

-A

VOTE: Sonic Boom

I do not know why this day has not ended yet.

-A

I could see myself voting EF over sonic boom but I'm definitely not townreading SB and I don't see him living both today and tomorrow.
So I'd rather get it over with.

Plus, aegor seems hell-bent on lynching SB.
-Tier

If you read these, it fits very well with them being an investigative and having issues believing SB and Voided. Very very well. Especially since Sonic pretty much claimed insane cop and Nazarene believe themselves to be insane.

[mastin2]

In most games on mafiascum.net, around D3, apathy begins to set in.
Activity decreases.
Players seem to lose interest in the game.

I suppose I should be honored at your defiance of the site meta.

ProHawk - 1 (DrippingGoofBall)
Nazarene - 1 (guille2015)
EddieFenix - 1 (Nazarene)
guille2015 - 1 (EddieFenix)
pirate mollie - 1 (ProHawk)

Not Voting - 4 (ika, eyestott, Mathdino, pirate mollie)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
(Detailed VC after I eat--very long day, starving, no food basically most of today, need to eat, you have a VC so it'll do.)

[Mathdino]

Lol I actually get more active in loud games when playerlist gets smaller.

Anyway I got a ton of info from the PM. To paraphrase:

1. Gunsmiths investigate as guilty to each other. That said, there's no other gunsmith in this game so who cares.
2. Insanity doesn't alter the results of other investigatives on them. In other words, insane cop isn't gonna be more suspicious to a cop/gunsmith than a sane one.
3. It's possible that there are insane roles other than cop. Now, I know I'm not insane because of Bulba, so that's also kinda moot.
4. So apparently I don't fall under the category of 'cop' but rather 'cop variant', and lawyers will say in their role PM whether their role fucks with cops and variants or just cops. Checking mafia lawyer flip now.

[Mathdino]

Sonic Boom

,

Mafia

Lawyer

,

Lynched Day Two

.

<<< What's a lawyer? Yeah, well, funny you should ask that. See that quip at the beginning of the game about me not having gotten any reviewers? That, uh, extended to the role name. I had a specific role in mind and knew it was an established role, however, I just so happened to misremember what said name was. Sonic Boom was a tailor. Below is the relevant exert from their role PM. >>>

During the night, you may target a player. That player will show up as the opposite alignment to a cop as they should. (A town result becomes a scum result; a scum result becomes a town result.)

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Lawyer does not fuck with me.

[eyestott]

we don't want town to claim before mafia because it just gives mafia more info.

Dude, from the perspectives of {ika, mollie, DGB}, setting aside any conspiracy theories as to scum shenanigans, there is 1 scum in {Nazarene, Mathdino, ProHawk} and 1 in {Fenix, guille}.

Which confirms ika, mollie, and DGB as town.

where do I fit in with this?

[eyestott]

Some stuff I learned from mastin:
If two people investigate me in the same night, my millerness only affects the chronologically first investigation.
I am not informed when my millerness is removed.
Some gunsmiths will activate my millerness and find a gun, others will not. It depends on the wording in their initial role PM.

[mastin2]

Sorry, I won't be able to get up the extended votecount tonight. (Or for that matter, attend to the majority of my MS errands.)

See, it's nearly 4 AM, and...yeah...

Sleep is bigger priority.

[guille2015]

What are the chances that mafia have a roleblocker and blocked guille?

There is also the possibility of a redirector type power around. I have considered it earlier or me being blocked is the only explanation of any discrepancy.

I have no indication that my power is a dud. But If anybody was blocked N1, that may be indicative of a re-director.

The interesting part about Eddie is that He claimed N1 action after I said I targeted him. This is not something scum tend to do. Much less this early in the game.

Having Eddie and I target each other (with whatever Eddie has) should Proof something. He will get blocked and Confirm my power, or if I get intercepted in some way, he can confirm a guilty or innocence on me. Just food for thought here.

I doubt that Math is not sane. If there is a redirector, then this situation sucks. The tailor died before N2, so he couldn't have done much about a gun. Gun Framer also a possibility. So, then go with interactions.

@everyone: Do you find it likely that Sonic's buddies would vote on him or not yesterday?

My thoughts are yes, so In my mind I think that those outside have a less chance of being his buddy.

[guille2015]

The situation I see here is that Math Has a maybe Guilty on Nazarene. Nazarene has a Maybe guilty on Prohawk. It seems math's guilty is more solid. If nazarene claims before Prohawk, Prohawk would loose all credibility.

I think the night actions are set, And I agree with the plan.

Math, what do you think of Eddie doing his mojo on me? I would have liked to hear his results, though.

But regardless, Prohawk should claim.

[EddieFenix]

I don't see anyone but you who's dead set on night actions tbh. The problem being is why do I HAVE to target you to confirm

your power?

My power could get re-directed just as much as yours could when you think about it.

[pirate mollie]

I don't think a redirect works on some1 who is jked.

[EddieFenix]

I don't think a redirect works on some1 who is jked.

Which is why I'm wondering what happened with guille or if what he said about targeting me night one is true at all. Because I don't fully believe there's a re-director in the mix.

[guille2015]

I don't see anyone but you who's dead set on night actions tbh. The problem being is why do I HAVE to target you to confirm

your power?

My power could get re-directed just as much as yours could when you think about it.

Assuming you are telling the truth. If I block you, you will not receive a result, thus confirming my power. If You are not blocked, you can confirm my guilt or innocence, in whatever way your power works.

[Nazarene]

Do you still think dino is scum?

Play wise, yes.

I don't understand this game plan by scum:
Let's 1v1 for Nazarene because he's such a threat to us that I don't mind dying for it

And then reassessing the situation and not actually hard pushing for my lynch. It just doesn't make sense. It makes it harder for him to fakeclaim something and doesn't actually give him towncred.

I have trouble seeing him as scum. Can you comment on this?

I cannot tell you my role before you claim because you could just cater your claim to it.

Then you would have to freaking try to lynch me because I would be an idiot to claim my role just to "clear" myself from a "maybe" guilty.

P-EDIT: What did I miss that you are practically an IC but yet didn't die over Bulba..... right.

Why are you objecting to massclaim? I thought we were doing massclaim.

I also don't really feel your mollie points. She's scum for avoiding you? And you hope to convince people with that?
-Tier

[Nazarene]

I mean you could argue it gives him towncred because I townread him for it but that is not how it works

[Nazarene]

Oh lol I thought more thread had past than it did.

Nazarene, is there any possibility that you're not sane?

No, but I do believe I'm insane. Insane people probably don't get guns.

Basically, the only way we can figure this shit out is massclaim. I hoped ProHawk would be willing to cooperate after being threatened to lynch but it looks like he's just being an idiot here. Nazarene won't claim until ProHawk does, however, and ika needs to be able to claim AFTER Fenix who needs to be able to claim AFTER Nazarene, so this entire chain needs to start at ProHawk.
tl;dr PROHAWK STOP BEING A DUMBASS
MOLLIE AND I CAN'T BOTH BE SCUM
LISTEN TO ONE OF US IF YOU WON'T LISTEN TO BOTH
I do want to note that I really appreciate the fact that ProHawk repeatedly says anyone trying to solve the game with balance is scum, but then tries to solve the Nazarene guilty claim with balance. At the moment I'm leaning ProHawk scum and shenanigans on Nazarene but it's possible ProHawk is being total VI.

Regardless, I do NOT want a lynch today until massclaim happens. We need to coordinate night actions, a la Dethy, to solve this.

I agree with massclaim, if I haven't said that already. How exactly is prohawk trying to solve this by balance?

[ProHawk]

I absolutely refuse to claim. If enough people want me dead enough to put me at L-1 and legitimately want to lynch me, I will claim. Then the dumb loss you all will suffer (or joyful exuberance if you are scum) will be on your hands and not mine.

[ProHawk]

Mass-claim is such a freaking idiotic idea in an unbalanced game where roles are likely (obviously) not what they seem. Scum have safe-claims that WILL be razor tight. Mastin isn't an idiot. We are all losing sight of scum-hunting in favor of role-hunting/result-hunting due to night actions when clearly results will be screwed with.

The people pushing result-hunting are likely scum or douped town because SCUM KNOW THEY ARE JACKING WITH THE RESULTS. Therefore they will be good with hunting off of the night-results because it will incriminate the perps/give them an out when they can say... "whoops someone screwed with my result, hey look a lawyer!" after a mis-lynch from a guilty.

[ProHawk]

You keep saying I am a Jester, that I am playing poorly, too poor to be town (which is the dumbest thing I have EVER heard TBF), yet I am one of the more level headed person in this game - aside from Bulba which is likely why he died.

[guille2015]

Regardless of whether mass claim is a good idea or not, you have a guilty result on you by one of the players. If you don't Claim before they do, Your claim Will be be useless. Don't you think?

[Mathdino]

where do I fit in with this?

I forgot you existed, sorry. In the townpool.

What are the chances that mafia have a roleblocker and blocked guille?

There is also the possibility of a redirector type power around. I have considered it earlier or me being blocked is the only explanation of any discrepancy.

I have no indication that my power is a dud. But If anybody was blocked N1, that may be indicative of a re-director.

The interesting part about Eddie is that He claimed N1 action after I said I targeted him. This is not something scum tend to do. Much less this early in the game.

Having Eddie and I target each other (with whatever Eddie has) should Proof something. He will get blocked and Confirm my power, or if I get intercepted in some way, he can confirm a guilty or innocence on me. Just food for thought here.

I doubt that Math is not sane. If there is a redirector, then this situation sucks. The tailor died before N2, so he couldn't have done much about a gun. Gun Framer also a possibility. So, then go with interactions.

@everyone: Do you find it likely that Sonic's buddies would vote on him or not yesterday?

My thoughts are yes, so In my mind I think that those outside have a less chance of being his buddy.

Ooh, the redirector idea is good. The issue is that no one's shown any indication of being roleblocked.

I don't like Fenix targeting you, seems pointless. Let him target who he wants so scum can't mess with it. I'm already randomising my target just in case Nazarene was framed. I would highly suggest you jail Fenix again though.

The situation I see here is that Math Has a maybe Guilty on Nazarene. Nazarene has a Maybe guilty on Prohawk. It seems math's guilty is more solid. If nazarene claims before Prohawk, Prohawk would loose all credibility.

Disagree, I think my guilty on ProHawk's way more solid because

I absolutely refuse to claim. If enough people want me dead enough to put me at L-1 and legitimately want to lynch me, I will claim. Then the dumb loss you all will suffer (or joyful exuberance if you are scum) will be on your hands and not mine.

My read on ProHawk overpowers my read on Nazarene by far. mollie or ika should vote ProHawk, I want to deliver the intent to hammer. At that point I think Nazarene should fullclaim with results because it doesn't look like ProHawk's claim will save him (otherwise he'd have claimed already IMO).

[Mathdino]

EBWOP: Nazarene's guilty on ProHawk's way more solid

[ProHawk]

Claim to what? Save myself? Who freaking cares? After I claim, there will be no saving me from the wrath that will ensue anyhow. So if I am to the point of claiming, you might as well lynch me.

P-EDIT: lol @ Dino... not sure how anyone is town-reading this.

[Nazarene]

I don't really have a guilty, just a way of determining if prohawk's claim is fake. So I want him to claim.

I don't get why you're claiming to be such an outlandish role that we'll autolynch you for it, why not just try and claim? You're probably getting lynched without the claim anyway.

[Mathdino]

Yeah at this point I have no intention of lynching Nazarene, I'm very much thinking gun framer is what happened.