Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[mastin2]

Lame-ass VCs, of course! You can never have too many lame-ass VCs!

ProHawk - 1 (pirate mollie)
Nazarene - 1 (guille2015)
EddieFenix - 1 (Nazarene)
guille2015 - 1 (EddieFenix)
Mathdino - 1 (ProHawk)
pirate mollie - 1 (Mathdino)
DrippingGoofBall - 1 (ika)
ika - 1 (eyestott)

Not Voting - 1 (DrippingGoofBall)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

[eyestott]

Mannn, imagine this at deadline in a game where everyone in a tie is lynched.
I'd be the last one standing!

[mastin2]

For the record, I normally DO use plurality lynching, but in that case, it'd be ProHawk lynched, not everyone.
(I am not using plurality lynching this game, though.)

[eyestott]

Wait, how is that plurality, then?
This situation is pretty uncommon, though. I've never seen a VC like this.

[Nazarene]

I'm going to correct you Naz, feel free to use this as your conf. guilty.

I didn't and couldn't use an action N2 because I used it N1. So no, it really doesn't check out with YOUR insane claim. So either severe shenanigans, or scum. So if you are actually town, I hope you realize how dumb it was to get people (namely me) to claim in the name of SOLVING this game. As you can see... severe shenanigans (as advertised in the freaking TITLE of the game)

Tier, in direct response to you - It's been a combination of not having enough time and spreading myself too thin getting into too many games which doesn't allow me to provide the depth and keeps me superficial.

So you're claiming to be one-shot?
That means I indeed have a conflicting result on you.

VOTE: prohawk
I am NOT saying my result definitely means you're scum, but I'm going to park until input from Aegor and I would definitely be okay with your lynch.

I want you to explain your fricking pushes, prohawk.
-Tier

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Nazarene

[eyestott]

When did Prohawks say he was one shot?
If he takes two nights to investigate, it means he can investigate tonight.

[Nazarene]

I see a lot of questions about our claim, night targets and behaviour wrt our role.

Our role explicitly stated we could be insane. Thus, we decided to track our strongest townread, bulba, for two reasons:
1. We were sure he was town; if we'd see an incriminating result, we could be pretty sure we were insane and vice versa.
2. He'd probably be nightkilled soon and confirm if our results were sane or insane.

Our results did not influence our day 2 play regarding bulba in any way; it was way more likely that we were insane than that he was scum making the kill.
We didn't even think about crumbing, but it would probably have been a bad move. If we had been nightkilled before bulba, flipped tracker and tracked bulba (to the kill)? If anyone found out about our crumb, bulba would claim his role (miller) and definitely get lynched. So no.

That's actually a really good point about Nazarene. Insane tracker doesn't seem like it has much point in the first place. Am STILL at a loss as to why Naz didn't just ask ProHawk if he targeted anyone last night rather than asking for fullclaim. Will vote them after they come back and defend (and also after mastin gives another VC).

I thought about doing that. I wanted to do that. But then I'd confirm my role to him, just like when I would claim before him.
I said I was insane before and if I'd asked him who he targeted, he'd know I was a tracker (or a watcher, but probably tracker).
What's more, he probably wouldn't even claim who he targeted in the first place.

[Nazarene]

VOTE: Nazarene

hi

When did Prohawks say he was one shot?
If he takes two nights to investigate, it means he can investigate tonight.

wait...that's not how a delayed cop works.

[Nazarene]

@mod: would a delayed cop take two nights to investigate, or could he investigate every night and then get his results one night later?

<<< Depends on the wording in the initial PM. There is no universal standard. If the delayed cop is told they can investigate every night and will receive results the night after, then there you go. If the delayed cop is told they cannot investigate the night after starting their investigation, then there you go. Though both are slightly different variants on the cop role, they share the same role name. So it boils down to mod and setup preference. >>>

[Nazarene]

.
2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor) - Claimed possibly insane tracker. N1 found bulba targeting shos. N2 tracked Prohawk to no one.

2- Does this mean that the tracker gets the opposite result, or that the result is random. If it is the first, then if Nazarene flips town, Prohawk is guaranteed to be scum.

That said, Nazarene's role and result are not consistent with their posting. Considering that they townread Bulb, still targeted him, and even finding out that they had a damning result on Bulb, they went out for Sonic's Lynch without even prodding bulb for anything that might hint his result.

I think My vote is fine where it is.

I don't think you've actually read the post in which I claim. If you had have, you'd know that I probably get the opposite result and that I cannot get random results.

We targeted bulb BECAUSE we townread him. But well, see my post a few posts above this one.

[Nazarene]

I'm thinking about eschewing hunting by roles entirely in favour of hunting by those that try to take advantage of them.
WHICH WOULD MEAN I'D LINE UP WITH PROHAWK WHÏCH IS SHITTY

Guille would fall into that category.
VOTE: guille
consider this my new park. I like prohawk somewhat better after these last 3 pages. I still want explanations for his pushes.

[Nazarene]

BUT DAMMIT I HAVE A FRICKING GUILTY ON THAT PROHAWK FUCKER

[eyestott]

UNVOTE: .

[pirate mollie]

Just going by the way you've been approaching the game and setup spec. ika is someone I recall having a certain penchant for setup spec and gamebreaking.

that hasn't been my experience with ika at all. do you have a link to a game where he did this? he says he can but I have yet to see it. this isn't negging on ika it is just i am trying to figure out why you think this.

@ prohawk - jesus christ i don't remember you ever being this big of a giant baby. we have lynched scum, it is d3 I wld say town is not doing too bad and it confuses me and it seems like you are trying to undermine town which is what sonic did who was scum.

@ eyesore - I am not an investigative role.

[eyestott]

Eyesore?
Mollie, Would you say that your role is to do with protection? Again, not asking for specifics.

[Mathdino]

Just going by the way you've been approaching the game and setup spec. ika is someone I recall having a certain penchant for setup spec and gamebreaking.

that hasn't been my experience with ika at all. do you have a link to a game where he did this? he says he can but I have yet to see it. this isn't negging on ika it is just i am trying to figure out why you think this.

thesp's game. He didn't actually break the setup there because the twist was just that it was methodical mafia but he talked for a loooong period of time about trying to and I filed him away as someone who's obsessed with setup spec. Check our ISO's if you feel like.

[eyestott]

Do you have a specific reason for me, over the much more experienced players?

[Mathdino]

Spoiler: Yes, like all of these posts

Wait guys, what if there's no scum? That would definitely be unbalanced.
Seriously.

mastin: is there definitely a scum team? If there wasn't, would you lie about it in your answer?

<<< I would be the first to admit the idea of a no-scum game has run through my mind.
This is not this kind of game. I guarantee you there are scum in the game. >>>

I just had an epiphany. Why the hell would mastin put a completely normal cop in this game?
She wouldn't.

I may be wrong, but by looking at my role, I have the feeling that a lot of the roles in this game are non-normal, or bastard. My claim of one shot miller actually fits in more thematically than sonic's claim.

This game screams multiple cops

Hey everyone. I think it's entirely possible that this is a purely investigation based game.

@everyone: is your role investigation related? Please answer with a plain "yes" or "no". I'm counting plain VTs in people that would say yes, too.

This would include:
Cops
Rolecops
Gunsmiths
Millers
Death millers
Trackers
Watchers
Voyeurs
Followers
Oracles
Pretty much anything else that affects or enacts investigations.

1. shos - confirmed Doctor.
2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor) - Claimed possibly insane tracker. N1 found bulba targeting shos. N2 tracked Prohawk to no one.
3. Voidedmafia - Confirmed Sane Cop.
4. Sonic Boom (Metal Sonic+Titus) - Confirmed Mafia Lawyer.
5. Bulbazak - Confirmed Town Miller
6. EddieFenix - Useful result N1 on Sonic
7. ProHawk - Claimed Ultimate Cop, innocent on Bulba on N1, no action N2
6. ika - Claimed Something that interferes with investigations.
9. Mathdino - Claimed Gunsmith, bulbazak has no gun, Nazarene does.
10. guille2015 - Claimed JK
11. pirate mollie - ?
12. eyestott - Claimed One-Shot Miller
13. DrippingGoofball - ?

Nazarene: out of all of the claims, I'd probably be the least inclined to believe him. If a watcher came forward, maybe. But think of this: we haven't really had much in the way of common investigatives. We have a claimed ultimate cop, we have a gunsmith, a sane cop (confirmed sane, unlike other investigatives), but trackers are common, and insane trackers are very easy to fake. From what I understand, the only info naz gets is whether his target targeted someone, by reversing it. Not only that, but Prohawk has disputed his N2 result. Finally, out of all of the claimed investigatives, Naz' is the least useful, IMO. Mislynching Prohawk and killing ultimate cop would be much worse than mislynching an insane tracker.


Guille: The only thing that makes me think he might possibly be telling the truth about his claim is that shos flipped as a doctor. Unless something blocked guille or unblocked Eddie, one of them must be lying.
1: guille is blocked. This would mean that there is another blocker, obviously.
2: Eddie is either ascetic, or strong willed, or something else.
3: Eddie was deblocked by someone.
4: guille is lying about JKing Eddie.
5: Eddie is lying about being RBed.
I doubt that a deblocker exists. Eddie, is there anything to suggest that you are strong willed? 4 and 5 can only be ruled out by lynching one of them. We can find out if 1 is true by finding another roleblocker, or if two people are RBed during the night.
Risk assessment wise, if one of them is scum, it would be better to lynch guille first. Eddie says he has an investigative power, and JK messes up with investigations too much. Either way,
Eddie: why aren't you claiming? Is it for the same reason Prohawk was hesitant to claim?
There still a week left in this day, but there's 12 hours left in another of my games, so urgency calls.

[eyestott]

Oh wow, I see what you mean. "This game screams multiple cops" HAHAHAHA HOW RIGHT I WAS

[guille2015]

I don't think you've actually read the post in which I claim. If you had have, you'd know that I probably get the opposite result and that I cannot get random results.

Well, I did, and that's why I was confused. I just checked the wiki. Insane is the opposite, all my [mafia]life I've been thinking its random result. So, I was confused because You said something that contradicted with my definition.

So basically, you can only check if someone travels or not. If this is true, then Prohawk is certainly scum.

[pirate mollie]

I don't think you've actually read the post in which I claim. If you had have, you'd know that I probably get the opposite result and that I cannot get random results.

Well, I did, and that's why I was confused. I just checked the wiki. Insane is the opposite, all my [mafia]life I've been thinking its random result. So, I was confused because You said something that contradicted with my definition.

So basically, you can only check if someone travels or not.

If this is true, then Prohawk is certainly scum.

I came to this conclusion ages ago. what prohawk is suggesting with his role is that there is another possibility of a follow the cop scenario that overrides scum's probably primary power. what i don't get is why nazarene doesn't get this and it confuses things. and prohawk's play does NOT make sense from an ultimate cop POV. there are no crumbs and why hell did he investigate bulba? wasn't bulba a townread? even if he got paranoid of him wouldn't it make more sense to investigate some1 yanno, he actually was pushing for scum like me?

[Mathdino]

(As always, if I get enough people requesting his full role PM, I will post it, even though it is fairly self-explanatory.)

Mod I would like his full role PM

.

I can't believe I didn't think of this. Need to see if he's a miller to both cops and their variants. If he is, then I'm insane and Naz is town.

[ProHawk]

I don't crumb.

I already explained my pushes.

I'm not dealing with Giant-Baby-Mollie for the rest of the game.

[mastin2]

Wait, how is that plurality, then?

Plurality lynching on MS.net just means that there's not a no-lynch if there's no majority at deadline, and that someone gets lynched no matter what. The exact rules of how differ. Off-site, a fairly common way is to roll the die and whoever loses the roll gets the rope. MS.net

generally

has a very hard aversion to randomness, though, so other methods are preferred. The "lynch everyone at that number" is nearly unheard of, though not impossible I suppose, yet most common is methods of tiebreaking. The person who last held the highest number of votes and/or the person who has held that number of votes the longest are both fairly common tiebreakers.

...But as you can tell, that itself can be a bit of a headache. Honestly, one of the reasons a no-lynch is a common deadline method is because it's simpler to understand and enforce.