Mini 1624: Joss Whedon Mafia: The Musical (Game Over)

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

eyestott is a terrible compromise lynch :/

You'd have a bigger hand in things if you actually talked more, you know.

Vote: eyesott

[Antihero]

i'm kind of as lost on why eyestott's getting lynched as serra is

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

I made a case. You know, those things that I never, if ever make?

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

ffery :/

[Regfan]

On way to work, proper post qhen i get home but Eye flash wagon and yonce and moc voting within 2 minutes of each other on it is suspicious as fuck, calling it now they're scum with day talk.

[Regfan]

Seruously both have stated a scuum read on the other before but 'don't want to vote the other today' then both jump on the lynch possibility that isn't one of them two together.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Sorry for harsh tone Regfan, typing angrily makes me type faster and I have a lot I want to say in a small space of time.

1) Found the entrance in Post 10 to be forced and exaggerated, AP later attempting to slip in a statement that he would 'never' make that post as scum in Post 623 reads as ridiculously disingenuous especially since he's not one to shy away from 'attention' as scum.

AP claiming scum is not something new and it's not something scummy regardless of the circumstances because it happens literally all the time. I don't understand why AP would say it's not something he would do as scum. I would care more about that point if what he did initially was scummy in any way.

Reaction towards being FoS'ed in Post 224 / Post 225 / Post 243 / Post 614 don't read natural at all and comes across as very manipulative; little to no reason to attempt to manipulate the IC as town whereas scum have plenty.

This point is a perfect example of you missing a forest: generally, when people ffery expects to read her correctly as town misread her, she has a reaction that may be snark, emotion, etc. #244 is saying how she doesn't know whether she's happy serra's lost ability to read her as easily or if she's sad that he's misreading her. You can call this "manipulative" because of the mention of emotion but that seems like a pretty shitty and terrible approach unless you're expecting people to be robots.

Didn't like their posts directed at Cabd at end of D1 specifically Post 649 and Post 674 which looks like an attempt to get 'town read' and also as F-16 pointed out play the fear card (which is something F-16 actually did to me last game and I almost bought it), reaction to F-16 more recently is similarly bad.

Why looks like an attempt to get town read over actually showing town motivation? Post #649 is good because it shows a similar mindset to now that if she can't fight her lynch (which is something she feels because she's in her funk and frustrated with how she's playing), that she will attempt to make sure her lynch has as much town-utility as it possibly can. I liked that she singled out yonce because her slot had been hard townreading him before: it makes it seem more like a moment of paranoia/uneasiness than it would have if she picked on someone AP had been scumreading/null-scumreading. Ffery is also much more likely to take the stronger hydra partner's lead if the slot is scum, so this move bucking AP's reads would be extremely unusual for her. It would also be beyond dumb to create an interaction with a scumpartner like that before her slot was about to die and flip scum: absolutely no one ever would go "oh ffery said we should look there day 2, must be a bus" and it would be be fucking over her scumbuddies before she dies which is something that goes against ffery's scum game completely (she generally expects to go down early, but she sure as hell doesn't drag anyone down with her). I don't even know why Post 674 would be attempt to get townread: she's pointing out that she's not screaming "Cabd is town" with her dying words because he hadn't done shit around her wagon and also didn't make the attempts to shut it down earlier: part of my unease with the slot is that Cabd said "oh I'm not really ready to lynch Murder today" but then let the weak suspicion shit fester and instead pussyfooted around the wagon for a couple of years and allowed the weird situation that occurred at the end of day 1 to happen. I really, really don't understand how saying "I'm not townreading you right now" is playing the fear card unless you people scare a hell of a lot easier than I thought you did.

MoCs Post 874 andPost 879 look really fake, with 30 minutes to go and the closest they ever got to a lynch I'd expect Town!Them to be more frantic about just getting a lynch in, attempting to play the "When we flip town" while doing near nothing to get a lynch in looks like an attempt to get town-cred while simultaneously not helping the town at all.

There's nothing MoC could have done to prevent a no lynch at that point. If there was, you'd have a point. But there wasn't. You can't make votes appear out of nowhere: the chance for lynching was pretty much disintegrated completely when Boonskies claimed a decently strong power role and no amount of flail could have changed that. You say hey, they could have self-voted earlier, but that's also a dumb point because self-voting would have done, again, nothing. You say that a lot of ffery's earlier moves were to gain towncred: this is the point of the game where it would have made sense to bitch and moan and scream about town no lynching in an attempt to gain towncred because there were literally no repercussions in doing so.

town reading someone as you don't believe scum would push something they know is "fake" makes no sense because almost everything scum push is 'fake'. I don't see an experienced player like Ffyer or AP coming up with or using logic this insanely weak as town, fact that this happens to be on the other person I'm scum-reading here strengthens this and makes Riddleton-MoC a likely team.

This is you missing another forest and it frustrates me because this is something you should know and yet I'm not exactly able to type out why you are wrong. Scum, as a general rule, try to find pushes that they believe are logically valid/reasonable enough for townies. They generally don't continue pushing things that are as close to "hard evidence", aka things like townslips or claims, in games with any amount of passion unless they have good reasoning for doing so. Scum generally don't do things like this because the only way to continue pushing in the face of evidence is sheer conviction and scum obviously have none of that because they know what they're pushing is blatantly incorrect. Riddleton arguing with the Anatole townslip because "oh" is town because it's not like anyone particularly cared about the townslip so he's not stopping someone from being confirmed town: everyone's sort of meh on it and Riddleton comes out of nowhere, guns blazing with a HELL NO.

This is probably one of the larger ones but throughout the entire game (And especially when they were suspected) they set themselves up to be able to vote just about anyone,

They set themselves up to vote just about any of their scumreads with understandable maybe compromise votes on Boonskies and Goblin: if they set themselves up to vote anyone else, link me to that because I think I'd probably care a lot more about that. I find the Antihero suspicion understandable because Antihero hasn't been playing at all to the level he should be playing at: he's been lazy as shit and overall pretty fucking underwhelming. Now, Mara has a strong sense of him being town based on her feeling to understand why he's been underwhelming and still feeling passion in certain points of play (which is undeniably there), but I understand the Antihero push because I feel the same way. Boonskies wasn't obvtown before his claiming shenanigans. Boonskies wasn't town at all before his claiming shenanigans. This additionally makes sense. LMP suspicion was a pretty strong suspect of AP that died a little bit with the replacement. It makes sense that the slot wouldn't climb out of scumreads so easily. I don't blame AP for Bassists suspicion at all, I didn't think they looked that town.

The throw down vote on Egg purely as a "PoE scum read" after their entire reads list also reads as scummy and points against them legitimately scumhunting.

The PoE process that happened wasn't fully hashed out, but it felt like a vote thrown down on someone who seemed like they had a pretty good chance of being scum/good starting point, which seems to be the type of votes you don't understand because you don't make them. As far as scumreads go, you have two scumreads who had gotten significantly weaker from early days (Antihero/LMP), a scumread that you know you're a little biased making and am generally having trouble sorting through, a meh read you have a feeling is probably town, and Egg read which is a good mix of not doing anything but still posting often enough to pretend to be making some sort of impact on the game.

5) The FoS and "If you lynch us you should really look at lynching this D2" in Post 649 about Yonce who had replaced their somehow "strong town read" of Riddleton looks ridiculously scummy especially given the lack of follow up on this by them, until I replaced in they were putting near no focus on Yonce and even now their focus is minimal, there's no real attempt to get a read on him or natural progression in their read on him.

I wouldn't expect ffery to tear down an entire townread on a player because they voted her. It does make sense for her to have something like that as an in the moment feeling: it makes a hell of a lot more sense as an in the moment feeling as it does to be anything that's even sort of scum motivated, although you seem to be less focused on that and more focused on it not making sense.

6) The fact that almost the entire playerlist FoS'ed MoC yesterday but they never got past L-3 in the entire day phase heavily points towards them being scum, partners wanting to distance but no buss; if they're town I'd have expected them to at minimum have been put to L-2/L-1 and forced to claim.

When you are a strong town player, people are afraid to lynch you, and while they feel okay expressing suspicion in an attempt to get you to step up your game, they are not confident enough to place the vote and take the plunge. The only reason I survive as long as I do in half of my scumgames is because of reputation and trust built up that says "if Nacho is town, I'm going to feel dumb as shit". An example of this is FFX AU: I fully believe Falcon had me pegged when he replaced in and the only reason he didn't place the vote and wreck me to shit is because he recently got back from mislynching me in a Micro game and was being a little too cautious this time around. So people expressing suspicion of a strong player and then not actually being willing to lynch them when things get down to the wire is more an effect of being a strong player playing a weak game than it is being an effect of scum/town. I'm sure if I wanted to break down the playerlist and explore positions I'd be able to give you a better picture of what actually happened, but I generally don't scumhunt by wagon behaviors because it isn't my strong suit as a player and I know it.

[serrapaladin]

serra, please please do stuff. :/

I'm being audited, which is eating up all of my time :/

All of the recent eyestott votes have been really terrible.

My townread on yonce has been somewhat eroded. I don't know who her main is, but it seems she's someone established trying out new stuff.

[Murder of Crows]

ffery :/

I took my grandmother to the stores.

I'm here now.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

And yes I know that response has flaws and yes I know that it's rambly as shit but it'd be lovely if you could just, I don't know, trust me on this read for today. Ffery is the player whose playstyle I understand the most intimately out of any player on site and I know I'm not wrong here and I wish there was something more I could do to express that but this is all I have.

[Murder of Crows]

Seruously both have stated a scuum read on the other before but 'don't want to vote the other today' then both jump on the lynch possibility that isn't one of them two together.

I am not scumreading yonce. I went back through her iso looking at the stuff

I look for

and I don't see a lot of cause for concern. I didn't like her vote on me day 1. But she's Riddleton and I liked him for town a lot.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Ffery, talk to me about eyestott.

[Regfan]

Will respond to that wall when I have a computer after work but on s skim doesn't change my read at all and no I'm not going to jus 'trust' your read on her st all, would seriously put a lot down here she's msfia. A lot.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Also, what sets apart AA's play here from her play in Final Fantasy?

[Murder of Crows]

Damn shame this site doesn't allow sigbets.

[Murder of Crows]

Ffery, talk to me about eyestott.

I don't really feel that great about the vote, but I'm lost at this point.

[Murder of Crows]

Also, what sets apart AA's play here from her play in Final Fantasy?

The emotional level. I wasn't sure what to make about her apparent paranoia about me, but it was a lot more strongly stated than the paranoia she stated about me in FFX - and that's what I think I missed about her, that and not staying on her ass since she didn't show much fire and energy at all outside of those few, sparsely spaced moments.

What did you think about her?

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Will respond to that wall when I have a computer after work but on s skim doesn't change my read at all and no I'm not going to jus 'trust' your read on her st all, would seriously put a lot down here she's msfia. A lot.

It's not just trust. I'm telling you to put extra emphasis on my read on ffery because I have years of experience with her. I've spent hours and hours understanding her meta so I can dodge her scumreads of me, and I'm telling you that as a player she is the person I've put in the most hours understanding, more than any other player on site. You disregarding my read when I'm telling you this is you disrespecting me as a player, and if you keep pushing ffery despite my read on her without reanalyzing anything at all, you're burning a lot of bridges between the two of us because the only way you keep pushing without hesitation is because you're drowning in your own ego.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Ffery, talk to me about eyestott.

I don't really feel that great about the vote, but I'm lost at this point.

Would you feel better about an Egg vote?

[Murder of Crows]

I don't know. I liked the way he defended boonskiiies when the game momentum went that direction early day 2. I don't like the low activity and the difficulty in figuring out what his reads are.

But, my own reads are mush right now, between putting limited energy into defense, and all the goddamn lurking in this game.

@ Serra - I'm not going to follow your current vote. I disagree with you, and I feel like your vote was mostly irritation with the earlier spamming.

Who else would you consider voting and why?

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Also, what sets apart AA's play here from her play in Final Fantasy?

The emotional level. I wasn't sure what to make about her apparent paranoia about me, but it was a lot more strongly stated than the paranoia she stated about me in FFX - and that's what I think I missed about her, that and not staying on her ass since she didn't show much fire and energy at all outside of those few, sparsely spaced moments.

What did you think about her?

I'm not really that sure. I think I probably would have ended up townreading her in FFX once she started stepping it up because those moments of passion are moments that have not been present in her scumgame of old. Here I feel there are unnerving similarities, like her push on serrapaladin actually seems a lot like her push on you in FFX, and the real town passion seems to be a lot less brutal than her scum passion in FFX (like she was a bit of an ass in FFX while I don't really remember her town game looking like that). But then there were her last few posts before she replaced out which seemed like more of an effort to scumhunt than she ever put forward in FFX unless I missed something and the replace out itself which doesn't seem like something AA would do as scum?

[Regfan]

Walking into work now, see you all in 12ish hours.

Nachos 100% town ftr

[Murder of Crows]

Pushing the IC though. I think town AA9 is a lot more likely to do that than scum is. It was a reactive push, but still.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Pushing the IC though. I think town AA9 is a lot more likely to do that than scum is. It was a reactive push, but still.

My problem is I think AA9's paranoia of you in FFX was because she wanted to make a push on someone that was pretty widely read as town because scum-her wouldn't make that sort of push. I don't think scum-AA9 would be any less likely to pull punches even if serra was the person scumreading her, either: I think she responds harshly to people because that's how she's expected to react and I'm not sure scum-AA9 has any other tools to react to suspicion on her.

[Murder of Crows]

She certainly knows that over the top responses are what people expect of town-her. And in FFX she prove (to me anyway) that she can do a reasonable facsimile of that as scum now.

Bar raised.

I dunno. I was in-the-moment in both games, and her responses felt different in some ineffable way. At the time I was kinda conflicted about whether that difference meant she was scum in one of the games.