Mini 1624: Joss Whedon Mafia: The Musical (Game Over)

[Cabd]

I'm here! You may all rejoice as I take a quick shower, pop open a can of soda, and start doing shit now. (While crying to myself because I had to leave penguin back in Chicago)

[Antihero]

let me know when you're ready to tell me to jump up my own ass and die, cabd

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

riddleton didn't act like a pr

spamming the shit out of the thread and picking fights w/ greyice?

no

didn't really pay attention/forgot about this though :/

am thinking that he was probably a newb who didn't know how to play PR maybe? fighting against someone as scary as scum isn't something newbscum wouldn't likely do, IMO anyway

pedit: you slipped. I anticipate something good.

[Antihero]

Quick VC scan: istott, trust me when I say you don't want to have your vote on me by the time day ends. And I'm not getting lynched either so look for a better person to scrutinize.

this happened way before regfan called her out

oh fucking a
if it's negative utility, riddleton would've piped up first post

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

what do you have against my reasoning, anti? we are both pretty aware that I deal with emotion better than you do

pedit: who says it's negative utility?

[Murder of Crows]

riddleton didn't act like a pr

spamming the shit out of the thread and picking fights w/ greyice?

no

didn't really pay attention/forgot about this though :/

am thinking that he was probably a newb who didn't know how to play PR maybe? fighting against someone as scary as scum isn't something newbscum wouldn't likely do, IMO anyway

pedit: you slipped. I anticipate something good.

I don't think Riddleton is a newb. New-ish to ms, but not new to mafia IIRC. In the open game I played with him he did a fair bit of gambiting/fake-claiming.

[Antihero]

pedit: who says it's negative utility?

"you don't want your vote on me"

the claim = something bad happens to people with votes on her at the end of the day

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

I assumed cop, or some other powerful PR

[Antihero]

no that's a REALLY specific threat

[yoncé]

Riddleton's play makes perfect sense to me.

regfan already noted that your initial enthusiasm at "being town" seemed to wear off really quickly

I've been inactive and it's disappointing to me. If I was more active I could have gotten what I wanted to happen but right now I'm kind of wishing I was just scum instead.

...and the case of the vanishing MoC scumread...?

It never vanished. It just became more of a dull nullscum read as I found a much better scumread in Ank, and recently Regfan and F-16's opinions on that slot and my own have made me not want to agree with them on it.

You're not lynching me today. Or ever, for that matter. Regfan, eyestott, and Egg are three viable wagons that I'd be fine with joining, with the first being my preferred lynch by far.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

OVAY TIME FOR SLEEPYVREW TO START READING AGAIN
PREPARE YOUR BODIES

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

They woke me up. I'm gonna do my thing where I probably produce content before either Cabd or Sleepy gets around to it.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Negatively affects me in a psychological way. Someone is scumreading me and I have no idea why.

Why does being scumread affect you?

Because I know they're wrong, and there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

But why would you want to waste time and energy convincing just one person that they're wrong when you could be scumhunting instead?

Right now it seems like you're more concerned about your own survival than lynching scum.

You may have missed the post where I explain this.
95% of my mafia experience comes from face to face games.
F2F mafia is much less logical, much more gut based than Forum mafia, and bandwagons start much easier. Even if someone doesn't give a reason for a vote, or gives a bad one, people will generally follow on and vote the same person. My play style is still based around my Experiences with F2F, and as such, I always get cautious when I'm voted for. Ignoring a scumread in F2F is near fatal, so I dont. Most of you guys are mainly forum mafia players, but I'm not, so keep that in mind. I ain't like other people.

I don't think we ever finished this conversation. My bad. Yes, I understand that F2F and forum mafia are different. You clearly understand this too. So why does it seem like you're using your F2F experience as an excuse for scummy play online? If you are aware that they operate differently, and know that they need different playstyles/mindsets, then you should not be applying your F2F mindset to a forum game.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

They woke me up. I'm gonna do my thing where I probably produce content before either Cabd or Sleepy gets around to it.

I hope you can generate content before me seeing as I'm not caught up and probably won't fully be before deadline.

[Ms Marangal]

no that's a REALLY specific threat

I've seen those threats made as a cop/doc/otherPR and I've done those kind of threats, as well. It's kinda weird that she targets it towards Istott specifically is weird, but timing, and how she goes around to doing it feels really, really townish. I'm aware scum can manipulate it, but it's probably something that takes quite a bit of skill to pull it off as naturally as she has.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

no that's a REALLY specific threat

I've seen those threats made as a cop/doc/otherPR and I've done those kind of threats, as well. It's kinda weird that she targets it towards Istott specifically is weird, but timing, and how she goes around to doing it feels really, really townish. I'm aware scum can manipulate it, but it's probably something that takes quite a bit of skill to pull it off as naturally as she has.

PICV IT UP SCRUB

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

No one else vote Yonce.
If I survive tomorrow, ill reveal the debuff (If its pro-town to do so). I mean, its not like ive really been that useful.

I have absolutely no idea what you were going for with this post or why it happened the way it did but I really can't see this being a scum response to a possible wagon on you.

When asked to vote me, Yonce says that she doesnt see it as viable, and that JBVTB is voting her. However, as soon as MoC votes me, she places a naked, still unexplained vote on me.

What's wrong with this?

I went through Red Wine again and your end of day posts felt nothing similar.

This game is an outlier for ffery's games, meaning pattern matching isn't going to work here. But as far as looking at range of end of day reactions goes, think of those two scum games you've mentioned (get suspicion, post a bunch of analysis) and add Xenoblade for good measure and then compare and contrast Red Wine, Space Mafia and see her reaction to even getting suspicion to the first place because the range in her town game is considerably larger than the range in her scum game: being suspected affects her psyche as town while it doesn't have that profound effect as scum. You can see a lot of evidence of her emotional response to suspicion by her interactions to me in particular: that need for interaction as opposed to interaction being obligatory is a very important difference to me.

I'm assuming Nacho suggested you do it in order to make me read you as town/manipulating me into not wanting to lynch someone who's putting in that much effort to investigate something I wanted to investigate w.r.t Bulba's meta.

The town things in ffery's play haven't been her big wall, although I did very much like her big wall. You should know that: if you're still finding your main markers for ffery-town in how much effort she puts into a game then your skills in reading her haven't progressed as far as I expected they would.

And lines like this feel really manipulative because it feels like you are expecting me to know all these minute details about you and having thoroughly meta'd you when I don't feel that you normally think my meta diving is up to snuff enough that you should expect these things of me.

She's saying the opposite, actually?

I meant to say that Murder-Medea interactions makes it more likely Medea is scum than Murder.

F-16, why aren't you engaging with me on my ffery read? If you think I'm scum defending her, you need to address the me = scum case before continuing to push on a ffery that I'm townreading.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

On the one hand, the focus feels at once tunnelly and shallow. He's picking up superficial stuff in looking back at old games, and completely missing what I feel is relevant in some of those games, which is what I've been calling meta gaps.

Him continuing to engage you after my ffery-town post and me railing against Regfan reads felt extraordinarily town to me. I could maybe see him as scum trying to fake paranoia/attack you because you seem like a viable mislynch, but continuing to engage after #1367 is incredibly incredibly town to me. In Wicked Mafia, Falcon as scum seemed to panic a bit as scum whenever people railed against him hard and sort of shut down and made me take the wheel, but this reaction felt significantly different from that (even though he forgot how town that response was!). I really don't like that my big wallpost at Regfan didn't even make a splash in F-16's world, though.

[Murder of Crows]

On the one hand, the focus feels at once tunnelly and shallow. He's picking up superficial stuff in looking back at old games, and completely missing what I feel is relevant in some of those games, which is what I've been calling meta gaps.

Him continuing to engage you after my ffery-town post and me railing against Regfan reads felt extraordinarily town to me. I could maybe see him as scum trying to fake paranoia/attack you because you seem like a viable mislynch, but continuing to engage after #1367 is incredibly incredibly town to me. In Wicked Mafia, Falcon as scum seemed to panic a bit as scum whenever people railed against him hard and sort of shut down and made me take the wheel, but this reaction felt significantly different from that (even though he forgot how town that response was!). I really don't like that my big wallpost at Regfan didn't even make a splash in F-16's world, though.

I don't think he referenced any posts that didn't happen before your wallpost to regfan?

I expected him to at least engage you on that, and the fact that he didn't, and didn't engage anything on the same page with your wallpost may mean that he didn't read it, or didn't have time to review/respond last night.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

But, there are those occasional flashes of deeper insight, which suggest he's either more experienced than he appears (maybe it's where f2f strategies intersect with slower games?) or he's naturally got a handle on some stuff.

It's strange how I end up with eyestott town (sorry), but I feel like his deeper level stuff all ends up falling on the town side of the spectrum whereas all of my major gripes with him are just as likely to be newbie mistakes as they are new-scum mistakes. For example, one of my problems with eyestott was his dark period where he prod dodged and essentially did nothing (which also wasn't as bad as I thought it would be when I was reading back): his explanation about a change in mindset makes complete and total sense because his posting before that point seemed genuine enough to prove he'd have enough capability of playing scum where he wouldn't have to disappear. His point about being "impacted negatively" earlier on in the game also meshes with his "I'll feel like crap if I catch up in the game and get lynched anyways" in that he's emotionally affected by pushes on him in that he feels he should be read as town and hates when he isn't. I don't think that's a scum manipulative tactic.

There's also his push on Yonce, which I figure I like because of his "no one else votes for Yonce" which, although I might be reading between the lines a bit too much, makes it seem like he wants to a pressure her a bit because the softclaim seems like bullshit but doesn't want other people to join in and increase likelihood of an earlier lynch than what he wanted. I would see scum either avoiding something they saw as a PR claim as much as they possibly could or make a push and pretend they don't know so they can possibly get a PR mislynch: this middle ground seems distinctly town-motivated. Plus I can't see any scum ever going "hey guys I'm gonna vote here but NO ONE ELSE FOLLOW".

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

On the one hand, the focus feels at once tunnelly and shallow. He's picking up superficial stuff in looking back at old games, and completely missing what I feel is relevant in some of those games, which is what I've been calling meta gaps.

Him continuing to engage you after my ffery-town post and me railing against Regfan reads felt extraordinarily town to me. I could maybe see him as scum trying to fake paranoia/attack you because you seem like a viable mislynch, but continuing to engage after #1367 is incredibly incredibly town to me. In Wicked Mafia, Falcon as scum seemed to panic a bit as scum whenever people railed against him hard and sort of shut down and made me take the wheel, but this reaction felt significantly different from that (even though he forgot how town that response was!). I really don't like that my big wallpost at Regfan didn't even make a splash in F-16's world, though.

I don't think he referenced any posts that didn't happen before your wallpost to regfan?

I expected him to at least engage you on that, and the fact that he didn't, and didn't engage anything on the same page with your wallpost may mean that he didn't read it, or didn't have time to review/respond last night.

That would make sense, yeah.

[Murder of Crows]

But, there are those occasional flashes of deeper insight, which suggest he's either more experienced than he appears (maybe it's where f2f strategies intersect with slower games?) or he's naturally got a handle on some stuff.

It's strange how I end up with eyestott town (sorry), but I feel like his deeper level stuff all ends up falling on the town side of the spectrum whereas all of my major gripes with him are just as likely to be newbie mistakes as they are new-scum mistakes. For example, one of my problems with eyestott was his dark period where he prod dodged and essentially did nothing (which also wasn't as bad as I thought it would be when I was reading back): his explanation about a change in mindset makes complete and total sense because his posting before that point seemed genuine enough to prove he'd have enough capability of playing scum where he wouldn't have to disappear. His point about being "impacted negatively" earlier on in the game also meshes with his "I'll feel like crap if I catch up in the game and get lynched anyways" in that he's emotionally affected by pushes on him in that he feels he should be read as town and hates when he isn't. I don't think that's a scum manipulative tactic.

There's also his push on Yonce, which I figure I like because of his "no one else votes for Yonce" which, although I might be reading between the lines a bit too much, makes it seem like he wants to a pressure her a bit because the softclaim seems like bullshit but doesn't want other people to join in and increase likelihood of an earlier lynch than what he wanted. I would see scum either avoiding something they saw as a PR claim as much as they possibly could or make a push and pretend they don't know so they can possibly get a PR mislynch: this middle ground seems distinctly town-motivated. Plus I can't see any scum ever going "hey guys I'm gonna vote here but NO ONE ELSE FOLLOW".

What you're saying makes sense. I got the oddest feeling when I was interacting with him yesterday about putting down some reads or saying

something

about another player that wasn't about how the player suspects/pushes him. Maybe it's just a personal approach thing.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

Are you guys ready for some READS?
ARE YOU?
No, you fucking aren't.
Let's set the mood.

Are you fucking PUMPED yet?
No?
Then clearly you need to play more Ace Attorney. But that's a different (though far more important) problem.

eyestott

Scum for the reason I explained in my previous post. He's aware that his F2F playstyle translates weird online, but instead of adjusting, he is using it as an excuse for behaving with a scum mindset.

Egg

This is the second push that disappeared when I did. But 100 years have passed and I'm ready to come out of my iceberg now.

Holy fuck stop spamming

This is the scummiest post I've ever hyperbolized about.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Egg
You can yell at me later, Nacho.
You please don't yell at me, Mara.

-bork

Remember this? It doesn't look like anyone did! This post is a prod dodge attempting to disguise itself as something helpful. By the time he made the post, all three heads were contributing IMO solid content. He was trying to capitalize on the number of our posts and see if he could vote us down the line, not for being scummy, but for being anti-town. Hidden motives for posts, discrediting a vocal town slot, setting up a vote on a townie without being held accountable... Yeah I think I've finally gotten the hang of this "nail someone in one post" deal.

This brings me to the last person I was scumreading.

yonce

I also don't know who's scum, but I doubt it's Boonskiies! Too easy.

Ankamius is my best guess for scum right now. I don't know. His non-reaction to the votes on him is a null tell to some, but to me it reads scummy. I feel like town would have a more active reaction to being voted by someone they just attacked. Maybe scum trying not to say OMGUS? Hm.

Why is Boonsviies "too easy"?
Are you familiar with Ank's meta?

These seem to be really simple questions, right? Except yonce repeatedly would not answer them, instead spewing shit about the wagons or a readslist when no one asked for either. Sure, those things aren't inherently bad, but they are when they're being used to avoid answering simple basic fucking questions. Hell, even not answering questions is necessarily scummy, but the way she went about ignoring them was so damn scummy. Also, I don't give a fuck about a PR crumb.

Antihero

Mara assures me he's town.

F16

Nacho tells (not sure on strength but it was strong) me he's town.

MoC

Nacho guarantees me that they're town with a money-back guarantee and unlimited warranty.

Now I need to figure out the rest of you fucvups <3

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

And the way she replaced out also felt town.

Additional problem I have with her replace out is that it felt oddly clinical and unnatural in the lead up to the actual replace-out: why was it Antihero saying that he'd be willing to policy lynch AA9 enough that she would want to replace out and yet she didn't express any emotion despite having a feeling of being betrayed?

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

What you're saying makes sense. I got the oddest feeling when I was interacting with him yesterday about putting down some reads or saying something about another player that wasn't about how the player suspects/pushes him. Maybe it's just a personal approach thing.

I know he's capable of posting content that isn't so narcissistic and I'd very much like to see it but I think him focusing on reads based on how players interacting with him is more a sign of him being lazy than it is a sign of anything else.