micro 429: m9++. epilogue.

[BRantz]

mykonian: He was on the wagon, while actually apparently trying to distract from it by engaging dave about completely irrelevant things, and seems to have no interest in scum hunting at all. Seems fairly scummy so far to me.

VOTE: mykonian

[Cyrus]

I was going to ask if nothing that Myko's posted since then has pinged you at all, but he hasn't really done much since then, has he. Hrm.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Official Vote Count

davesaz

(3): FuDuzn, Whomping Willow, Cyrus

BRantz

(1): VysePresident

TierShift

(1): davesaz

VysePresident

(1): mykonian

FuDuzn

(1): TierShift

mykonian

(1): BRantz

Not Voting

(1): sordros

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2014-12-26 06:44:58)

[TierShift]

Why do you think he's probably town?

He's too dense to be scum. And doing shit that usually doesn't help you in getting votes removed from you.

@Tier: Why skip me in your reads? Am I that unmemorable?

Actually, yes. Thought about addng you, but had nothing to say. Probably town.

[mykonian]

myko can you actually post something useful please

I am, but you don't understand. You don't agree hence it's not useful. I doubt both dave and vyse are scum, though you could make a decent case for either.

[TierShift]

Is this the 'I won't elobarate because if I elaborate my stuff doesn't work anymore' kinda thing?

Or elaborate on your things

[mykonian]

I mean, it's late so I can just let my thoughts go and see what you fish out of it.

One of the stranger things this game is the amount of people who play newbyish on purpose. There's been cases/"inquiries" about lying from the start of the game, mostly because willow and Tier were getting things going, you can debate about my role there however you want. Now, this is strange to me. Willow's claim is obviously a conversation starter, there's no night 0, there hasn't been a night 0 on MS in years, but still this is where two people go (cyrus and dave). Dave is in the middle of these things anyway, later he comes with the vote for lying on Tier.

Now, given that a night 0 is nothing like we know, daves play is odd and the conversation does go there, as well as the feeling that this game is too newbie to be true, it's time to get investigating. Dave however, doesn't tell anything about himself, no clue where he comes from with his thoughts. There are few people who will naively assume that scum will lie 5 pages into the game and then park their vote there. We could happily talk about his mental age there, but I suspect we've gone past that station with this post. So dave smells, that vote on tier esspecially. There's some merit in getting conversation started without a premediated plan (which one of the reasons to have reservations about willow but less so about tier) so he's actually for a very naive newbiish reason voting someone who by my estimation should look pretty town to everybody.

This is just one post, but this is characteristic for daves playstyle. The oddity is that he's not the only offender.


The amount of "confused" people here is astounding. And it's bullshit. In a chat mafia environment this is a pretty decent scumtell because it's only goal is to create time to overthink the situation which is a bit out of the ordinary, and scum simply have a lot more to think about. On a forum, you have that time to think already. The only "time" you win by a "i'm so confused guyyyyys" is the posts of other people, for the situation to resolve.

Now this early game had a pretty out there situation. Both me and tier pushed someone on fake reasons after willows fake claim, straightfaced. Now, it's bullshit that everybody here was confused about willows claim. I could see people who would want to find out if they could safely hope on the sordros wagon or not, ie, I could see scum waiting to see where the wind blew.

Hesitancy doesn't just show in those statements, it also shows in the posts made. Pages of inquiries, entire posts explaining peoples entire stances with a previous vote, logically giving every single step how they got to their conclusion. And that's super nice that you can do that, but only scum really have to win by it. It's a lawyers defense, if you can explain everything they won't have a case to make, right?


Guess who was confused, soft defended dave simply on weakness, not on wether he's weak scum or not, then takes that as a stepping stone to attack the attackers (call it buddying, dont really care) and practically needs walls to explain everything they think and pushes a lot of questions without following up on the answers?

Vyse.

And I don't understand how you guys are reading here without feeling that something is off about this game. It's not willow or tier or me that makes it off. It's the response to it which is so sluggish, the naivity of some cases that have been pushed, the delay in responses. The game opened with a bang, why did the game as a whole not get fired up? The breaks were hit hard. You aren't looking here for that one person who posts x contradiction, you've got a fairly huge tempo change at the start, you should be looking for people who walked out of line. It's hardly just vyse and dave. There's cyrus, there's brantz. Crucially, it's clearly not fuduzn. He very quickly finds his stride, take the dave vote as an example, as well as the read given the situation on sordros. He's not waiting opportunistically, he's taking the opportunity to get his first reads in.

So frankly, with all your "content", you are missing the point. There are actually flipping tier and fuduzn votes flying around, who from the early game should have gotten some credit. You could look at them, but certainly not now.

[mykonian]

Is this the 'I won't elobarate because if I elaborate my stuff doesn't work anymore' kinda thing?

Or elaborate on your things

Nah, this is the if I elaborate on stuff it doesn't translate to other people. You are hardly the only example.

[Cyrus]

Wrt the night 0 confusion: in my defense, I really was confused. I left the site while night 0 was still a thing and I was surprised to see an implicatin that there had been one. I shouldnt have been in hindsight, I know.

[FuDuzn]

Why do I stink, Tier?

And if I and Sordros stink more than FuDunz, why are you voting him instead of one of us?

I really don't like these posts. Asking why someone thinks you are scummy and at the same time questioning their vote just makes my scumdar go crazy. You are just setting things up so you can discredit tiers argument.

Along with Cyrus, other Dave is clearly my top two scum reads. I really like tier for town, really promoting conversation and making sure everybody is contributing(hey, lay off me, I have been busy at work lol).

I like mykonian for town as well, his 156 seems well thought out and not forced.......and I feel bad for lynching him as the doc in a previous game

Willows claim doesn't seem legit to me, but still feels as if it had town motivation. I don't have as strong a town read on him but with a gun to the head I would say town.

Brantz seems to have a murderboner for Myko, which I don't get. Not sure if he has town or scum motivation with this.

These are the major reads I have. And I have the next couple days off of work, I will be a bit more active.

[BRantz]

Brantz seems to have a murderboner for Myko, which I don't get. Not sure if he has town or scum motivation with this.

I don't think this is a fair assessment. I made the point that myko had made no effort to be involved in scum hunting or discussion which I found scummy, and reiterated it once later when asked about it again.

That being said. I agree that his 156 is very good. I don't like the fact that he feels like he needs to treat us all like we are dumb, but that isn't scum motivated. UNVOTE: .

[Cyrus]

I have been pretty clear that Tier is my top town read, FuDunz. I haven't cast a single aspiration towards him. Unless you think a) town should let clear accusations towards them go unquestioned and b) it makes perfect sense for someone to not vote their top scum reads.

I prefer to have something I can argue against when I'm being scum read other than, "hey, you're scummy."

[FuDuzn]

I have been pretty clear that Tier is my top town read, FuDunz. I haven't cast a single aspiration towards him. Unless you think a) town should let clear accusations towards them go unquestioned and b) it makes perfect sense for someone to not vote their top scum reads.

I prefer to have something I can argue against when I'm being scum read other than, "hey, you're scummy."

Maybe it is the beer talking, but I have read this post multiple times and still have no idea what you are going on about.

[Cyrus]

Like, seriously. That would be the weakest 180 read in the history of the site. Him scum reading me isn't scummy. Him not voting me or Sordos is a bit baffling to me, but confusing isn't scummy either. I don't think I implied either when I asked those questions.

PEdit: you're accusing me of trying to set up Tier for a vote, if I'm understanding you correctly. I'm saying that's ridiculous.

If you're not saying that, then I'll have to reread your post later when it's not 1 am

[Cyrus]

Okay, I'm blind. You're saying that I'm setting him up to discredit his argument. Considering that I conceded that his reason for scum reading me was justified, I don't see how that stance makes any sense.

[FuDuzn]

Ok, well that is exactly what I am saying.

And pointing out that he is a top town read, you got me there. Scum would never say that :rolls eyes:

[Cyrus]

Okay, but you're still ignoring the fact that when he said I stank because I was just parroting other people's opinions, I replied "fair enough" and didn't make any attempt at all to discredit him.

[TierShift]

Guess who was confused, soft defended dave simply on weakness, not on wether he's weak scum or not, then takes that as a stepping stone to attack the attackers (call it

buddying

, dont really care) and practically needs walls to explain everything they think and pushes a lot of questions without following up on the answers?

Vyse.

So you think dave is town and vyse is scum?
I think the dave wagon was scummy, so I'm definitely okay with his hunting on the wagon. You don't think that wagon went crazily fast?

What's your read on cyrus?

[mykonian]

I like mykonian for town as well, his 156 seems well thought out and not forced.......and I feel bad for lynching him as the doc in a previous game

I cried a bit in bed that day :'(

That being said. I agree that his 156 is very good. I don't like the fact that he feels like he needs to treat us all like we are dumb, but that isn't scum motivated.

It's not dumbness, it's a different way to look at the game. I can't imagine people looking at that early game and deciding that Fuduzn comes out scummy from it. I think that people playing like tier has at the start tend to have good day ones in the average game.

If we want to use that terminology, it would make thinking about dave easier if I thought him less mentally capable for whatever reason.

If I reread the post, I think you could misread naive cases as calling people stupid. That wasn't the goal there, it was calling them scummy.

Guess who was confused, soft defended dave simply on weakness, not on wether he's weak scum or not, then takes that as a stepping stone to attack the attackers (call it

buddying

, dont really care) and practically needs walls to explain everything they think and pushes a lot of questions without following up on the answers?

Vyse.

So you think dave is town and vyse is scum?
I think the dave wagon was scummy, so I'm definitely okay with his hunting on the wagon. You don't think that wagon went crazily fast?

What's your read on cyrus?

As said before, I could make a case for either vyse or dave easily, but I don't think they are scum together.

The dave wagon went fast but given his posting and the time that happened that was to be expected.

Cyrus is in the list of people to have an eye on based on the early game.

[mykonian]

Did you just claim in your first post, Willow? Or am I missing a joke?

Well... okay...

VOTE: Whomping Willow

Willow, did you get a guilty on Sordros or no?

I didn't think it had a night start, honestly. I think the game opened too quickly for a night start.

like, you can't look at these posts and think: "well that's all perfectly normal".

[BRantz]

Myko do you think Vyse is more likely to be scum than dave?

I don't like that Sordros has kind of just faded into the background now that there is no pressure on him any more. 112 stinks as well (which is his last post).

VOTE: Sordros

[davesaz]

Busy day today, hope to analyze more tomorrow.

[Whomping Willow]

#lurking

[VysePresident]

Same here, I'm afraid. Sorry about this.

[FuDuzn]

I have been pretty clear that Tier is my top town read, FuDunz. I haven't cast a single aspiration towards him. Unless you think a) town should let clear accusations towards them go unquestioned and b) it makes perfect sense for someone to not vote their top scum reads.

I prefer to have something I can argue against when I'm being scum read other than, "hey, you're scummy."

Maybe it is the beer talking, but I have read this post multiple times and still have no idea what you are going on about.

Ok I read this a second time, still drinking beer though, not sure what confused me the first time.

You rapid fire made two posts calling tier out for saying he doesn't like some players more than he doesn't like me, yet still votes me. It sounds exactly like you are trying to discredit his scum reads........or at least call them into question.