Mini 1634 - English Premier League Mafia (Game over)

[4burner]

@Whiskers why is the exaggeration defense only coming out now and not earlier when I asked you much the same questions as BBT here?

Your RVS did not seem very RVS like at all. You would have voted BBT but chose Guyett for drunk post, as has been mentioned with an always qualifier to really ram home how often drunkposting is a scumtell. Seems suspect. WhaWhat's the story here without any glibness or nebulous reasoning?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@124 - OK, so what I'm getting from this is that you suspect massive more than me because a) you're town-reading me and b) massive appears tunnely (despite only having a couple of posts?)

I'm disregarding *a*. As for *b*, could that have something to do with post count rather than something that is alignment indicative? Given I am more active than massive, it would be easier for me to engage in multiple conversations and pursue multiple scum-reads would it not?

Also, I haven't said I am scum-reading RA. What are your reasons for town-reading RA?

[4burner]

@Scripten - You called me out for shittily tunnelling on Whiskers and attempting to misdirected folks with my BBT wagon comments. I may have simplified earlier but this it the main thrust, yes?

I'd really like to know how I was testing the waters however. Also, you asked if this is me thinking you are buddying Whiskers and my answer to that is that I'm trying to figure out if you might be his scumbuddy trying to discredit me and dissolve any potential wagon on him.

@BBT also makes a point that Kaboose seemed lower in your scum list than I do, yet he gets a vote. This makes me think if you flip scum, Kaboose was the easier mislynch target and thus the switch. But that's for later.

[4burner]

@BBT - you and RA both have townreads for scumhunting efforts I perceive as genuine and showing suspicion of the same players as I, meaning we must be coming from a similair thought process. Since I know I'm town, I'm going to give credit to those who are seeing the game the same way I do.

As for Massive's scum lean its based purely on the fact that I feel he ignored me to vote RA in a way that seemed unnatural. His response upon return to the thread will obviously affect it one way or another.

[4burner]

And if not a scumlean on RA, substitute the word suspicion in for it. Are you suspicious of me in the same way that you are of RA?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT - you and RA both have townreads for scumhunting efforts I perceive as genuine and showing suspicion of the same players as I, meaning we must be coming from a similair thought process. Since I know I'm town, I'm going to give credit to those who are seeing the game the same way I do.

As for Massive's scum lean its based purely on the fact that I feel he ignored me to vote RA in a way that seemed unnatural. His response upon return to the thread will obviously affect it one way or another.

Can you give me specific examples of RA's scum-hunting?

Did I also not ignore you to question RA? How is that different to what massive did? I'm trying to determine what the differences in your reads are on massive and myself with relation to RA and I'm just not seeing it.

PEdit - I'm not sure how I feel about you yet.

[Mario Balotelli]

Votecount 1.4:

Kaboose (4)-

BROseidon, Guyett, BlueBloodedToffee, Scripten

Whiskers (3)-

Red Arrow, 4burner, Kaboose

Guyett (2)-

deathfisaro, Whiskers

BlueBloodedToffee (1)-

Yiley

Red Arrow (1)-

massive

Scripten (1)-

theelkspeaks

Not voting (1)-

Zombeh

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline will be in 14 days, at 7pm (GMT) on Wednesday 7th January 2015.

Prods will be starting from tomorrow.

[4burner]

I'm on the phone so I'm not going to go quoting, but RA has spent words on questioning Whiskers, Scripten and Massive. Ie he is involved and investigating.

You might might have ignored me. Massive definately ignored me. It's hard to quantify the difference but outside of this you have seemed town so I'm more inclined to forgive it I guess. I can only assume a) you didn't find me scummy or found some point of difference between myself and RA and didn't want to engage me, or b) you just didn't notice me making the same points.

The difference between that and Massive is he quoted me so ostensibly knew everything that I was saying and chose to ignore it.

I have to ask, which of the above is it? Did you just not notice me or not want to comment on it at the time?



You've been playing in a pretty town fashion,

[4burner]

Ignore the phone relic sentence at the end there. ^^^

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I did notice it, but I forgot to pursue it at the time.

Right now, you're not even in my top 3 scum-reads so I'm not interested in pursuing it any further.

I will say I don't like how you're trying to find out what my read on you is. Usually, scum like to know who is scum-reading them and who isn't.

[4burner]

I'm trying to figure out if my townlean should actually be a townlean, and your treatment of me with regards to the RA comparison stuff is included in that. So your read on me and the reasons for it are definately something I want as town.

I must say this is the first time I've been called out for wanting someone's read. Peoples reads are kind of the only tool I have for investigation.

[Scripten]

BBT:

Couple of things.

You must have pretty good reasoning for your Kaboose vote given you think 4burner was misrepping you and you moved your vote off of him to Kaboose. Can I see this reasoning?

It's pretty simple. Kaboose's "I'm not playing until you threaten to kill me" is so anti-town that I cannot fathom it coming from a town player. I'm significantly more sure of his scum-ness than I am of 4burner due to a combination of his play and the post I quoted. I can see potential town motivation behind 4burner's posts, but not Kaboose's.

Your comment about your vote-hopping is noted as well. Self-aware, which usually comes from a scum mindset.

Feel free to take from this what you will, but that's more a personality thing than an alignment thing. I'm always fairly aware of my playstyle, and I usually keep my vote in place a lot longer. Right now there's three players that strike me as scummy, and they all are wavering up and down on my list.

4burner:

@Scripten - You called me out for shittily tunnelling on Whiskers and attempting to misdirected folks with my BBT wagon comments. I may have simplified earlier but this it the main thrust, yes?

I'd really like to know how I was testing the waters however. Also, you asked if this is me thinking you are buddying Whiskers and my answer to that is that I'm trying to figure out if you might be his scumbuddy trying to discredit me and dissolve any potential wagon on him.

Having looked back at the post I was quoting, I'm going to have to admit that this:

And then this. I really dislike that you waited to test the waters on a Whiskers vote before making it.

was based on false premise. I ISO'd you and saw your post here:

Leaning Town though because I agree with the vote on ...(player x) for overselling the drunk post thing. I've drunkenly scrawled shit as town before so I know for a fact its not a slam dunk scum tell.

Trying to sell it as one? Kinda shitty. Vote coming as soon as I remember who it was though.

It looked like you were testing the waters and that nobody replied so you just went ahead and made the vote, but looking back at the timestamps, there were only a few minutes between the posts, so I was actually kinda full of shit there.

@BBT also makes a point that Kaboose seemed lower in your scum list than I do, yet he gets a vote. This makes me think if you flip scum, Kaboose was the easier mislynch target and thus the switch. But that's for later.

Did you read the post I quoted before voting him? I just don't see town motivation in that post in the slightest. Your posting could be construed either as real or fake scumhunting from my PoV, and your reactions to my scumhunting have been townie. Kaboose, on the other hand, just looks purely scum-motivated.

[Kaboose]

Early town reads on Guyett and BBT.

VOTE: Kaboose

what has them reading town? I assume you know them better than me.

BBT's nonchalantness about getting wagoned reads as town to me; he looks like he didn't know/remember that Guyett was already on his wagon when Guyett dropped the 2nd vote, which pings as a more town than scum thing.

Guyett's similar nonchalantness/boldness about the whole wagon thing seems like something more likely to come from town than scum.

It doesn't move the meter a ton, but it's something.

A town read at this point in the game is about as strong as wicker furniture, so...

Gives two town reads, explains both town reads, and then discredits both town reads. Makes sense.

Kaboose as town is good. His posts are full of content. He struggles to keep that up as town

You and I both know I'm terrible at this game. Would you like to tell the class how you can count on any of your fingers the lone time you've seen me play as scum?

[Red Arrow]

@105 - I'm not questioning where you put your vote. I'm questioning your intent and your thought process.

If you thought there was scum on my wagon, why haven't you engaged/questioned those people on my wagon to develop reads?

What do you think is Whisker's motivation behind the over-reaction?

Again, nothing to go on. Your wagon will be better for information at a later stage when it can be anaylized better, after a few flips. Right now there is nothing in it that would be worth following up, it was for all intensive purposes the opening RVS bandwagon that comes in nearly every game.

over-reaction could be anything... buddying, protecting, making excuses for someone.... Its the mannor of how he jumped about it that seems off to me.

[Red Arrow]

You're half assing things

Yes, that is accurate.
Though, what about my reads is "redundant," as you call them?

you really want me to explain why your reads are redundant? because there is nothing to them, they seem like you are randomly spouting names for the sake of making it seem you have reads. As I said, you're half assing things and not really following up on your reads as to why these people are town/scum.

So hows about you stop half assing, and get your ass into gear?

[Red Arrow]

Meh I'll just play this game when I can be killed. Let me know when people start dying, because I won't be.

I really don't like this atitude. Un-caring and a seemingly unwillingness to engage further. Why not just play the game now? This post seems more about self preservation than actually wanting to help town catch scum

[Red Arrow]

For jumping on a big ol' noob for asking a question, one that you called "scummy" but I read as just being "newbie."
It would have been my Random Voting Stage vote, but then I found a vote I liked better than random, an Pissed Vote.

This part of your post is contradictory. Would you have been voting me for RVS or would you have been voting me because I attacked and voted Kaboose?

Also, what would be my scum-motivation for what I did?

Let me say, it's both, but more the latter. I can't say for certain it's a scumtell, but

ugh

, let's be cognisant of the spirit of exaggeration. As I explained already, it's definitely anti-town. Townies Should-Not do it. But that doesn't mean that they can't or won't, so it isn't a scumtell. Happy?

Not really, no.

You seemed sure it was a scum-tell when you voted him; you even italicised the 'always' part of your post. Now, in the first part of your post (the one I have quoted above) you're saying you're not certain it's a scum-tell and by the time you finish the paragraph you're saying it's no longer a scum-tell at all.

Can you take a more decisive stance on the issue please? Is drunk-posting a scum-tell or not?

Kaboose should be gaining votes really quickly.

Thanks.

...why though?

You're really not caring about actually catching scum are you?

Maybe a bit early to speculate on teams and connections without a flip but I am liking Kab/Whiskers as a scum partnership.. And further makes me think my thoughts of over-reaction to a Kab vote by Whiskers earlier is justified.

Err, uh, "Crikey!"
<_<

Vote 'em anyway.

Scummy question.

Have a vote.

VOTE: Kaboose

Whoa, harsh. More like, it's a nooby question, as Kabs is a huge noob. Be civil.

And I'd vote for you here, but

Early town reads on Guyett and BBT.

VOTE: Kaboose

No no jo its xmas eve n I'm pissrf. Yhis isnt alignment indicative

Drunkposting is

always

an instant scumtell, only scum do it to seem like regular joes.

Vote: Guyett

(P.S.: if it weren't for massive, I'd be the oldest member playing this game. *shakefist.* Damn you, massive!)

Yeah, I am liking Whiskers/Kab right now.

[Red Arrow]

BBT:

Couple of things.

You must have pretty good reasoning for your Kaboose vote given you think 4burner was misrepping you and you moved your vote off of him to Kaboose. Can I see this reasoning?

It's pretty simple. Kaboose's "I'm not playing until you threaten to kill me" is so anti-town that I cannot fathom it coming from a town player. I'm significantly more sure of his scum-ness than I am of 4burner due to a combination of his play and the post I quoted. I can see potential town motivation behind 4burner's posts, but not Kaboose's.

So much this <3 There is no town motivation in it. I could happily lynch Kab or Whiskers today. Both are great shots at hitting scum I feel.

[Red Arrow]

One last post for now, sorry for spamming but an important question.

@Whiskers

- Why do you feel drunk posting is a scum meta/tell? What motivation/benefit would someone as scum have by posting drunk that town would not?

[Kaboose]

I may or may not have misread my role PM, and because of that may or may not have thought I could or couldn't be lynched... After reading or not reading it again I realized or have not realized that I can or perhaps can't be lynched.
---

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks Kaboose's 87 is nothing but fluff.

Please tell us all more things that are obviously obvious.
---

I actually think you are overly trying to justify your vote with the drunk thing.....

VOTE: Whiskers

Oh

my,

trying to justify my vote? How awful!

Are you for real with the drunk post logic? I can understand the scum trying to chum angle, but you seem quite certain that that is definitely the case here...

Ahhh, I was going to ask what "scum trying to chum" meant, but then I realized it was a English thing. (um, probably. I might just be slow)

Are you for real with the drunk post logic? I can understand the scum trying to chum angle, but you seem quite certain that that is definitely the case here...

this

Is that a problem, though? I mean, it stood out, but does that bother you? :\

I don't like how you misquoted Guyett here making him look like he was agreeing with the post you quoted directly above him. Don't like it at all.

---

Gonna put a vote on...
VOTE: Whiskers
...for now because of the misquoting. I want an explanation.

I was going to tell you to fuck off, because I hadn't misquoted, and that WAS what he was agreeing to-- but then I checked my post and you were right and I had messed up.

Sorry. I wasn't meaning to quote the same post twice. That portion should have read,

The reaction of Whiskers to the Kaboose vote by BBT also stood out to me .

this

I can see now the confused face, and I'll let it slide not that there was much there to be honest as you didn't try to form a case but just wanted to probe with a question about the exchange.
---

Also, if anyone rolled Man U claim now so we can lynch you please and thanks!

A godfather club if ever there was one.

(P.S.: if it weren't for massive, I'd be the oldest member playing this game. *shakefist.* Damn you, massive!)

Look, if I could be five years younger, I think you know I would.

is anyone Spurs?

And if so, can we lynch them right after Man U?

Anyone else think Mourinho has sucked the joy of football out of Oscar?

It's OK, he still has his sisters.

unvote
vote Red Arrow

In your post 49, you mention that you think it's likely one of the members on BBT's wagon is scum. You don't, however, seem to even entertain the possibility that BBT himself could be scum. And then you go straight into 50 and vote for someone else without even continuing to explore your own point about BBT's train.

@Massive

- You vote @RA for playing in pretty much the exact same fashion as myself. I haven't revisited that thought train either despite being the one to bring it up, and am voting Whiskers for much the same reason. Does that make me scum also?

My question is would scum be more likely to ignore the BBT wagon or push it, knowing it was/is ultimately built on RVS bullshit?

I don't really like the presentation of this question. It feels like scum misdirection more than it feels like town trying to establish alignments.

Whiskers! It was whiskers.

VOTE: whiskers

And then this. I really dislike that you waited to test the waters on a Whiskers vote before making it. You've also done nothing else this game besides push Whiskers, despite mentioning that the BBT wagon could be scum. I understand that you said it was likely town, but that didn't seem to follow any sort of coherent mental narrative. You just said so, and thus it was, rather than working through it by talking to other players.

Yiley:

You haven't really done a lot this game. What do you think about drunk posting or Whiskers' opinions on it? How about RVS wagons?

@Scripten

When/How did I test the waters? Also, done nothing all game? It's 5 pages in. This case is your 5th overall post in the game, and only the second that could be considered as relevant (discounting RVS). By this stage comparatively, I'd posted 11 times (inc rvs of about 1/2 posts) and check my iso if you want to see what I've done beyond just push Whiskers. This case is a real stretch, especially if activity levels are a factor in your read on me.

And regarding the early lolwagon on @BBT, I have no way of knowing his alignment. Scum jump on scum for an early bus on scum, or jump on town for the lolcredit, minor as it is. Should BBT (or the wagoneers) eventually fllp, then we'd have more information to assess the wagoneers, but as it stands it is just an interesting set of players that could warrant further attention at a later stage. I'm pretty sure I said much the same in the posts this is all regarding. But at any rate, the wagon as it stands is null until further information is presented so why I'm being voted for essentially ignoring it is pretty thin.

Also, you call out Yiley for not commenting on Drunkgate, yet you hadn't offered your own opinion on the subject. Curious.

68 - How is the reread going Scripten? Caught up?

Oh. Yeah. I just wanted to ISO some people and do a quick skim. It's a fairly short game.

77 - Scripten, scum misdirection to where? From where? For what purpose?

Essentially fake scumhunting. "Look, there might or might not be scum over there!" I don't really like Whiskers' drunk posting discussion either, and Red Arrow also mentioned the wagon and proceeded to look elsewhere, but 4burner's treatment of the wagon just felt more scummy as a whole. At least I'm not at any loss for scumreads.

So I get in trouble for not doing anything, but now I'm also fake scumhunting, despite being what, 2nd on the Whiskers wagon who you yourself don't like and agree with my stance on.

This subtle defense of Whiskers is noted. Myself and RA at this stage are the only ones on Whiskers at the time of this post, from memory.

@Kaboose

- You call me out for making a non-content post as if I'm trying to fly under the radar, despite the last game related post being mine when I posted the quoted, and the non-game related posts coming all of 10 minutes after it. If I was trying to fly under the radar wouldn't my best move to be just shutting up and not 'spamming' the thread, as such?

When you made that post, did you read through the entire thread then write it, or did you take notes as you went along?

Also, voting Whiskers for what was an obvious quote malfunction seems pretty thin despite the suspicion of me. You must think I'm bussing?

I just didn't like the fact that it was a question that wasn't going to help the game advance. It seemed like a cheap way to create a conversation based on the theme of the game in hopes to get as many posts out that don't hurt you in any way. It still looks odd to me. You can ask those question before, during, or after your main idea in a post. But not as the only thing in a post, because it's immediately a post that's legit not scum hunting. If you're not scum hunting, you're not helping. Are you helping now? Yes. Were you helping then? No.
---

Also there are a lot of people drunkposting around the holidays.

Ew.
Really? I hadn't noticed this before-- though I don't know if I've ever actually played during the holiday season, and if I have, if it was common back then.

I just don't get it. It's too frequent to be a proddodge, and if you're drunk, why even bother posting? Go have a laugh with friends, or cry to yourself quietly. If you're not out with friends... why get drunk?

In game, there's reasons NOT to do it, and out of game, there's no reason (that I can think of, at least) TO do it.

Whiskers something tells me we wont get on.

What if I told you I don't even believe people post drunk on this site. You can navigate yourself to this thread, and where to post, but you can't type coherent? Really? It's a farce. It's an excuse. It's a style of posting to cover up something else in my opinion. I don't like it, and generally ignore it all together because it's a paradoxical argument waiting to happen.
---

Kaboose should be gaining votes really quickly.

Thanks.

You're subtly misrepping me here and I don't think I like it. I think I've made very clear what my accusations were. Are you implying that I'm buddying Whiskers here? Does that mean you think he's town or we're scum together or what? Explain to me the logic behind this inference, please?

Kaboose:

How about now?

VOTE: Kaboose

*(My vote is flying everywhere this game. Peeps be so scummy all over.)

Couple of things.

You must have pretty good reasoning for your Kaboose vote given you think 4burner was misrepping you and you moved your vote off of him to Kaboose. Can I see this reasoning?

Your comment about your vote-hopping is noted as well. Self-aware, which usually comes from a scum mindset.

PEdit -

@Whiskers

- Why though what? You haven't even answered what I just asked you.

Why are you telling people to vote for me, and then calling them out on it after they do it?
---

[deathfisaro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kaboose

Posts 111+144.
I think I now have a conjecture on how to balance a 10:3 full PR game. My initial thought was something in lines of "1 shot lynchproof" mafia PR. Like, if it activates the day just ends there and the lynchee doesn't die. But that still leaves a full night worth of town PR gang powers to fight against. So it may still be town-favoured.
How about a "1 shot lynch return" on top of being lynchproof, the hammerer dies instead of the lynchee. If scums discuss their PRs in pregame PT, they're not gonna fall victim to their teammates powers so it removes 1 town and they get to shoot too.

Originally just wanted to know the scumcount but since you're dropping breadcrumbs I'm gonna eat them and play outsmart the mod =P

[Red Arrow]

Yeah that whole I may or may not be able to be lynched (If I have read right) sounds a lot like Appeal to fear or a weak attempt at 'don't lynch me' it maybe a wasted lynch.

[Kaboose]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kaboose

Posts 111+144.
I think I now have a conjecture on how to balance a 10:3 full PR game. My initial thought was something in lines of "1 shot lynchproof" mafia PR. Like, if it activates the day just ends there and the lynchee doesn't die. But that still leaves a full night worth of town PR gang powers to fight against. So it may still be town-favoured.
How about a "1 shot lynch return" on top of being lynchproof, the hammerer dies instead of the lynchee. If scums discuss their PRs in pregame PT, they're not gonna fall victim to their teammates powers so it removes 1 town and they get to shoot too.

Originally just wanted to know the scumcount but since you're dropping breadcrumbs I'm gonna eat them and play outsmart the mod =P

So why are you voting me though? You don't explain that part.

[4burner]

I did notice it, but I forgot to pursue it at the time.

Right now, you're not even in my top 3 scum-reads so I'm not interested in pursuing it any further.

I will say I don't like how you're trying to find out what my read on you is. Usually, scum like to know who is scum-reading them and who isn't.

Actually hold up. I'm not top 3 so not worth pursuing, so why can't RA be allowed to not pursue the Wagoneers without suspicion?
If you are town, then you know all about the fact that not all cases are pursued every day. So I'm guessing at what the motivation behind the questioning here could be.

I hope I'm just buying into paranoia a bit because I want to keep you townread. But this, combined with the FoS on me for having the gall to ask you for your read on me has me pinging here a little.

What are your reads on Whiskers/Massive/Scripten?

[Red Arrow]

Actually hold up. I'm not top 3 so not worth pursuing, so why can't RA be allowed to not pursue the Wagoneers without suspicion?
If you are town, then you know all about the fact that not all cases are pursued every day. So I'm guessing at what the motivation behind the questioning here could be.



What are your reads on Whiskers/Massive/Scripten?

Simply because I am going after people based on actions in game with substantail reasoning that I believe will lead to them being revealed as scum rather than a hunch, with no proof that at least one scum was on the wagon. Its a thought, a theory but nothing else to go on, I would rather spend my time hunting actual scum than constantly having to state why I am not pursuing this avenue right now. Simply because there is nothing else to it at this time.

I intend to go back to it in the future, but right now it is just a thought, and usless without flips etc its useless. I would rather spend my time going after legit scummy action than effectivly chasing ghosts on a hunch without anything to back it up.