Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)

[Green Crayons]

@dave:

Is there other behavior regarding suspicions that someone had raised that would reinforce your thinking that ignoring/not responding is scummy? Things that would reduce/offset it?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. If you're asking have I seen scum ignore suspicions directed at them before, I don't recall any specific instance.

Player A says B is suspicious. B ignores / doesn't respond to the suspicion. I think you were also saying that B was interacting with A regarding other topics.
I was asking if there are other things B might do that would increase / decrease whether it's scummy to ignore/not respond.

Ah.

The things that come immediately to mind: if there is a lengthy discussion (so the suspicions might have been missed), or if the player willfully chooses to not address the suspicions upon them being pointed out.

[Riddleton]

@Riddle:

@Riddle:

I know you've seen Fairies' suspicions of you, as you have responded to her about other things. Why shouldn't I understand your avoidance of her suspicions as a scum tactic?

What merit is there for me to respond to Fairies' suspicions against me?

If you are actually town, then (1) getting her to see that her position is flawed (Fairies hasn't played in such a way that it would make such an exercise futile) and (2) convince other people who are following her suspicions that those suspicions are wrong.

Why do I need to defend myself and argue her scumread on me? You're addressing me as if it's urgent I do so when I'm not a major wagon today.Focusing all of my time into defending people's scumreads of me is futile when actual scumhunting can be done. Like I said, no motive for me to defend someone's case on me. If you think that's a scum tactic for me to "avoid" that then go nuts and vote me.

[davesaz]

What do you think about my defense of you in #238?

Do you think I'm more likely to be scum trying to buddy you with it or town not wanting to see you lynched because of it?

To be honest, I think either one is possible.

[Green Crayons]

@Riddle:

@Riddle:

@Riddle:

I know you've seen Fairies' suspicions of you, as you have responded to her about other things. Why shouldn't I understand your avoidance of her suspicions as a scum tactic?

What merit is there for me to respond to Fairies' suspicions against me?

If you are actually town, then (1) getting her to see that her position is flawed (Fairies hasn't played in such a way that it would make such an exercise futile) and (2) convince other people who are following her suspicions that those suspicions are wrong.

Why do I need to defend myself and argue her scumread on me? You're addressing me as if it's urgent I do so when I'm not a major wagon today.Focusing all of my time into defending people's scumreads of me is futile when actual scumhunting can be done. Like I said, no motive for me to defend someone's case on me. If you think that's a scum tactic for me to "avoid" that then go nuts and vote me.

Well that got real defensive real quick.

You asked me what "merit" there would be in you responding to Fairies's suspicions of you. I answered that question. I presume you read my answer, even though you ask me yet again for a reason why you doing so would be meritorious.

There's no urgency here. There's something crazy like an 18 day deadline. This whole game is without urgency. But I never realized urgency was a prerequisite for suspicions to be discussed. (It isn't.)

[awesomeusername]

Add fairies to my town list. I disagree with you, but I think you're town. I don't think Riddle's focus on swag was scummy, and he's provided thoughts on other players since.

@GC:

@awesome:

why the Kaboose vote, based on a pretty flip justification ("You're welcome for the vote. Now talk to me.")?

Your Kaboose vote/justification is particularly incongruous with the remainder of your Post 155, in which you undertake a more thorough analysis of players.

At this stage of the game, I use my vote more as a way to get someone's attention and a reaction than with intent to lynch. I had Kaboose on the scummy end of null, with very little to go off of, and I felt like he'd be around soon to react. Plus he seemed eager.

@Kaboose:

What do you want to talk about? Would you like to talk about your slip in this post on GC and how you wanted to toss his name in with town reads mere sentences after a no read?

Sure, we can start with that. I don't really have anything more to say about it than what I said in 166. What do you think?

Context leads me to disagree with your corpses case. My original impression of 46 is that corpses was responding to swag's silly hypo-claiming plan, and I probably would've said something similar to be honest. How are you interpreting that post?

@Swag, can you please not speculate about teams and masons? Stuff like 229 is good; stuff like 255 isn't. Thanks.

I don't like Riddle's refusal to answer suspicions. Take him off my town list. Mafia's a team sport, you need to help others scumhunt as well as do so yourself.

@Cheetory, I don't follow your case on elle. What is she reacting to and why is the reactionary vote scummy? I think I recall fence-sitting on her in my previous post. Otherwise, I think I like you.

@Grib, you didn't respond to my response. Why not?

[Cheetory6]

What is she reacting to and why is the reactionary vote scummy?

Basically, my train of thought here is:
i) Elle sees awesome say something that is easy to jump on.
ii) Elle naked votes for awesome in a reactionary way.
iii) Elle adds in reasoning on top of the easy to jump on stuff shortly afterwards because otherwise it might look opportunistic.
Make sense?

[Whatisswag]

Did not see this.

@whatisswag (in reference to 226-229)

Interesting.
That's a lot of lead-up for a sadly underwhelming post

So davesaz is scum because of useless posting - despite that he explains previous to any of this that his lack of posting is due to the holidays and not having time? Which would essentially negate all five of those first points you have there.

The part on him only interacting 'with Grib and almost no one else' is ridic misleading. It's not hard to ISO him to see who he's directing his 9 posts to:

1) Hannibal
2) Riddleton
3) Grib
4) NJAC
5) Grib
6) Grib
7) Riddleton
8) awesomeusername
9) whatisswag

Grib has the majority due to a response but it's hardly 'almost no one else'.

What do you think of his thoughts that the confirmation order is largely irrelevant in this game due to the holidays - a theory that actually coincides with his reasoning for being more inactive than usual?

Do you think it's likely to be coming from scum when it's actually negating one of the reasons he may be seen as town - due to being one of the first four to confirm?

Did something significant happen in the day you waited to reveal your scumread that proved he was scum for you?

But the point is that dave is asking questions but not saying much opinion previously. It would be much better to say opinions than to ask questions.

Oh and I forgot he was one of the first to confirm.

[Whatisswag]

@Swag, can you please not speculate about teams and masons? Stuff like 229 is good; stuff like 255 isn't. Thanks.

Damn, I probably should not play in games with masons.

[Whatisswag]

@Swag, can you please not speculate about teams and masons? Stuff like 229 is good; stuff like 255 isn't. Thanks.

Damn, I probably should not play in games with masons.

because the other thing I use besides gut is scumteam hunting.

[Grib]

awesomeusername: I asked you a question and I was satisfied enough that I didn't feel the need to respond to you.

[Grib]

Oh.

I don't know why you felt the need to tell me to go on with what I was already doing, but okay.

What do you think of davesaz and Green Crayons?

Hey Kaboose, in case you missed this.

[awesomeusername]

@Cheetory: Ah, you mean like she was jumping at an easy target?

@Grib: Okay. I'm a bit concerned that you're not pursuing your scumread though.

[Grib]

I'm working on other reads.

[elleheathen]

Did not see this.

@whatisswag (in reference to 226-229)

Interesting.
That's a lot of lead-up for a sadly underwhelming post

So davesaz is scum because of useless posting - despite that he explains previous to any of this that his lack of posting is due to the holidays and not having time? Which would essentially negate all five of those first points you have there.

The part on him only interacting 'with Grib and almost no one else' is ridic misleading. It's not hard to ISO him to see who he's directing his 9 posts to:

1) Hannibal
2) Riddleton
3) Grib
4) NJAC
5) Grib
6) Grib
7) Riddleton
8) awesomeusername
9) whatisswag

Grib has the majority due to a response but it's hardly 'almost no one else'.

What do you think of his thoughts that the confirmation order is largely irrelevant in this game due to the holidays - a theory that actually coincides with his reasoning for being more inactive than usual?

Do you think it's likely to be coming from scum when it's actually negating one of the reasons he may be seen as town - due to being one of the first four to confirm?

Did something significant happen in the day you waited to reveal your scumread that proved he was scum for you?

But the point is that dave is asking questions but not saying much opinion previously. It would be much better to say opinions than to ask questions.

Oh and I forgot he was one of the first to confirm.

Lol, even when you do see it, you're not actually answering the questions...

So he's basically just scum now because you think he should be giving his opinions rather than asking questions that you deem useless.

Why do you think stating opinions as town is better than asking questions? Do you think stating opinions will give us more information than asking questions will?

[elleheathen]

UNVOTE:

[Whatisswag]

Did not see this.

@whatisswag (in reference to 226-229)

Interesting.
That's a lot of lead-up for a sadly underwhelming post

So davesaz is scum because of useless posting - despite that he explains previous to any of this that his lack of posting is due to the holidays and not having time? Which would essentially negate all five of those first points you have there.

The part on him only interacting 'with Grib and almost no one else' is ridic misleading. It's not hard to ISO him to see who he's directing his 9 posts to:

1) Hannibal
2) Riddleton
3) Grib
4) NJAC
5) Grib
6) Grib
7) Riddleton
8) awesomeusername
9) whatisswag

Grib has the majority due to a response but it's hardly 'almost no one else'.

What do you think of his thoughts that the confirmation order is largely irrelevant in this game due to the holidays - a theory that actually coincides with his reasoning for being more inactive than usual?

Do you think it's likely to be coming from scum when it's actually negating one of the reasons he may be seen as town - due to being one of the first four to confirm?

Did something significant happen in the day you waited to reveal your scumread that proved he was scum for you?

But the point is that dave is asking questions but not saying much opinion previously. It would be much better to say opinions than to ask questions.

Oh and I forgot he was one of the first to confirm.

Lol, even when you do see it, you're not actually answering the questions...

So he's basically just scum now because you think he should be giving his opinions rather than asking questions that you deem useless.

Why do you think stating opinions as town is better than asking questions? Do you think stating opinions will give us more information than asking questions will?

It is not about providing information. it is about the fact that he was not stating opinions.

[elleheathen]

Everything we do as town is to provide information to give us reads with which to make a more informed decision on who to lynch...

Nice job dodging the questions again, though.

VOTE: whatisswag

[davesaz]

It is not about providing information. it is about the fact that he was not stating opinions.

Scum already know they can go after anyone. It's even good play to go after their partners.
What would give you the idea that it would be scum play to not give opinions?

[CorpsesInEthanol]

@Mod: Declaring V/LA this game, I think it should be said
My hydra partner's unlikely to be here in my stead
I'm going out of town for now until a week
Fairly unavoidable as family's what I seek.

Noted

[Kaboose]

@Grib:

Telling masons to be "dropping tells that they're not masons (not enough to be scummy ofc)" has no actual value because that is the obvious, logical play of being a mason. However, it's an action that looks like it has value because Corpses is supporting a play that benefits masons staying alive. So it looks like Corpses is taking action to look like he's advocating for a protown strategy, when really he's just advocating for basic game play.

Okay, so you think it doesn't have any value. That's fair. But if you actually go back and look at the interaction as it occurred, Corpses' post was in response to what he perceived as Masonfishing on Whatisswag's part. It wasn't an unprompted "hey guys Masons should totally

not

act like Masons duh" post.

Yes, I know. I think the context in which this particular action of Corpses's arose is also suspicious. I don't like Corpses's interaction with swag, remember? His fight with swag over the hypoclaim is part of why I'm voting him.

I'm just popping in to say that I will be catching up to this game ASAP, another game has taken my attention but I will be back with this one probably later today I'd imagine.

[Cheetory6]

Corpse, are you 100% gone during this next week? Like, are we just expecting not very many posts or complete silence from your end?

[Cheetory6]

It's not - he's town.

What changed between then and now?

[Kaboose]

Sorry about that quote, I started to get caught up and got pulled away, forgot I had that in there.

[elleheathen]

It's not - he's town.

What changed between then and now?

My read, obviously.

226 - 238 -268 - 281 - 288 - 290 - 291

[Cheetory6]

Let me rephrase this.
What is your concise and focused argument for why Swag is scum and worth being voted for right now?