Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)

[Lone Ranger]

I'm curious about the unanimous townreads on Cheetory due to his questioning of me. I think he's very likely town and I felt that his questioning was genuine too. But something doesn't feel right about the other's townreads. As in I'm comfortable reading Cheetory as town but I feel some players are jumping in to give easy townreads. His questioning of me was based on a misunderstanding. I fully believe that he believes what he is saying and is hence town. It is the people that are townreading him that concern me. I'm not sure if this is making sense but I'll come back to it at some point.

[Armageddon]

Vote count
Day 1.6

Players alive: 13

Players needed to lynch: 7

CorpsesInEthanol

- 3 - Kaboose, Green Crayons, Riddleton - (L-4)

elleheathen

- 5 - CorpsesInEthanol, Cheetory6, Grib, Lone Ranger, davesaz - (L-2)

Lone Ranger

- 1 - elleheathen - (L-6)

Riddleton

- 2 - NJAC, I Love Fairies - (L-5)

Players not voting: awesomeusername, Whatisswag

Mod notes:

CorpsesInEthanol is V/LA

Deadline is in

(expired on 2015-01-14 20:45:00)

[/b]

[Grib]

I'm curious about the unanimous townreads on Cheetory due to his questioning of me. I think he's very likely town and I felt that his questioning was genuine too. But something doesn't feel right about the other's townreads. As in I'm comfortable reading Cheetory as town but I feel some players are jumping in to give easy townreads. His questioning of me was based on a misunderstanding. I fully believe that he believes what he is saying and is hence town. It is the people that are townreading him that concern me. I'm not sure if this is making sense but I'll come back to it at some point.

It makes sense.

Can you expand your scumread on awesomeusername with more than one post?

[elleheathen]

Grib -

Obvious Town

-

I could sit here and reference almost every post he's made and point out why it's coming from town - but, look for yourself.

Green Crayons -

Town

-

I've found his posting throughout helpful, progressing, probing. The pause at the end of 129 is very 'don't fuck up my line of questioning' and comes out townish. It probably doesn't hurt that I agree with a lot of their thinking. I liked his questioning of me beginning in 173 - the interaction feels like he's genuinely trying to figure me out.

awesomeusername -

Town

-

I liked his response in 166 to my vote on him. He can see why I've put my vote on him for being 'fence-sitty' and has no worries about stating that his reads just arent very solid - something I don't think scum would be as comfortable admitting. I hesitate on this read until his 279, everything in that post feels like it's coming from a town POV. Same with 410.

Kaboose -

Leaning Town

-

I was up in the air on him until 339 - he gives a good view on why he's thinking the way he is and I especially like his appeal to Grib in it. I feel like him keeping his vote on Corpses despite Corpses being VLA is coming from town - because he has both me and davesaz as scumreads for reasons he's explained but that if he were scum, he'd have cared less who of the three he had his vote on.

Riddleton -

Null

-

NFC - I can't read him at all. I don't like that he doesn't pursue his scumread on me further with our interaction beginning in 72 but I'm not really sure what to make of it, either. I can see his hard-defense of swag coming more from scum than from town, but since I could still see it coming from town, it's null.

Cheetory6 -

Null

-

I really like their entry and that with most of his posting, you get a feel like he's moving things forward, trying to sort people. I didn't like his vote on me in 246, for the above reason, because I was someone he hadn't tried to question or even engage at all and his reasoning is fairly weak to not even pose a question about it with it. I feel like at that point, he's more trying to convince people I'm scum as opposed to figure out if I actually am scum - although part of me says that he may be trying to sort me indirectly. But 301 and on (with the exception of 399) makes me me lean back towards townish again. Ends up null - though I don't think it would take much to make me lean one way or the other.

NJAC -

Null

.

I can't see anything in his limited posts that's alignment indicative - I could see it coming from either town or scum. Although, I feel like his empty promises from 187 and on are more likely to come from town because I feel like scum would be a little more cautious about not following through with their catchup - but I'm not putting a ton of weight in that.

CorpsesInEthanol -

Nullish

-

I'm tentative on the hydra being possible scum, referenced by my 162, 219 and 236. I still think their explanation could go a long way in my read, though - especially if it comes without a rhyme. (Your metre is tight, don't get me wrong - but it's easier to gauge when not in sing-song.)

davesaz -

Null, Leaning Scum

-

Ugh. Just ugh. If you're town, you should at least

try

to read me better. I keep looking at his 259, and him addressing why swags play and hunting for masons and associations is srs scum play and his posting afterwards that looks like he's trying to sort swag. It looks like a town progression. But his switch on me is just... flat. No questioning, no real attempt to read me. I go from null town, to null leaning scum to scum without really much interaction at all. With his description of how he scum hunts in point 1 of 314, it doesn't sit well with me because he's not doing that. Maybe he's reading me from my posting to others but again,

ughhh

.

Whatisswag -

Leaning Scum

-

I'm pretty much just done trying with this slot. I can't actually tell 'if he's town that's just making himself look scummier by not giving a damn about what he posts or scum that just doesn't know how to not give himself away'. I ask questions, he dodges. I'm going to say this as nicely as I can: I can't tell if he's actually just being deliberately obtuse with his responses or if he's just... missing it alto-fucking-gether. Example: Him dodging the questions asked of him in 311 and 312. Both relatively the same question but one I want to see the response to, too. He doesn't answer when he returns. I point him in their direction. He comes back in 373 answering my 309, because what? Maybe he thought I meant my last post in 309 instead of what I'd actually said as 311/312? So I quote it again and I get 'lolwut?' Because reading is hard? I'm going to say it now: I will vote this slot - and I'm ridiculously biased because I no longer care whether he's town or scum - trying to make sense of him is frustrating the hell out of me.

Lone Ranger -

Scum

-

Lynch all liars.

I've made my line of thinking on the slot pretty clear in thread already (starting from 366) - so no, I'm not voting her for the policy but if you don't think the back and forth over not providing reads while saying that you have them, only to ultimately NOT HAVE THEM, isn't scum - then you should consider the policy for yourself.

[elleheathen]

Finished the reread.

1. I feel less suspicious about Corpses's interaction with swag after my reread.

2. Grib's posting looks like solid town. He's catching things and articulating ideas that I am having upon reading the thread. Suggests that we're approaching the game from the same alignment mindset.

3. To a lesser extent, I get town vibes from awesome's and Kaboose's postings. Fairies is still a lean town read (don't know if I ever made that explicit from my earlier review of her play).

4. Cheetory's posts come from a much more mechanical stand point (if that makes any sense, I'm not sure it does; but it's the best way I can describe the "voice" of his posts), making it harder to discern alignment. Null read at the moment.

5. NJAC is completely MIA. Potential lurkerscum.

6. Riddle's interest in the game has dwindled down to inquiring as to an alt's main account. Helpful.

7. I don't like the elle/dave/swag interaction. There's something about each player in the context of this three person back and forth that strikes me as suspicious. Will go into more detail later after I tease out my thoughts a bit more.

8. I don't like the elle/Ranger interaction. There's something about each player in the context of this two person back and forth that strikes me as suspicious. Will go into more detail later after I tease out my thoughts a bit more.

Let's face it: I'm probably today's lynch.
So remember points 7 and 8 when I flip, please - although I'm still looking forward to your thoughts on what it may mean.

[Lone Ranger]

The hedging is what sticks out to me the most. Even in his first content post.

I was actually town reading swag by the end of page 2 for proactively coming up with suspicions and getting us out of RVS.

Corpses has a good point with the "mechanical" scumhunting, I think, though.

I'm gonna have to check to see whether he usually relies on tells like that or not.*

For now he's town, though.

elle sorta pinged to me, too, around the time she was jumped on.

Hearing her reasoning makes me feel better about her, though.

* No follow up. I'm interested in hearing if he checked whether Corpses "usually" relies on tells like that.

[Lone Ranger]

^ Swag, not corpses.

[Lone Ranger]

Actually, I think he did follow up in his next post so never mind that. But I want to hear which games he read.

[Cheetory6]

Why is the content of awesome's posts town, elle?

[Cheetory6]

I didn't like his vote on me in 246, for the above reason, because I was someone he hadn't tried to question or even engage at all and his reasoning is fairly weak to not even pose a question about it with it.

If you were wary of me for this, why did you avoid bringing it up until now?
Why not ask me about the difference in play here or then? Why not respond to the points I made on you when I made them at the time?

[davesaz]

@elle, point 1 of my 314 is relating to how I post in general, not just to how I scum hunt.

My updated read on you was derived mainly from how you were interacting with other people during a time I was considerably less active. I would only say it's slightly more reliable than gut, or in other words not especially solid.

[NJAC]

Reading now...

[elleheathen]

Why is the content of awesome's posts town, elle?

I'll get back to you on this - I'm waiting on something.

I didn't like his vote on me in 246, for the above reason, because I was someone he hadn't tried to question or even engage at all and his reasoning is fairly weak to not even pose a question about it with it.

If you were wary of me for this, why did you avoid bringing it up until now?
Why not ask me about the difference in play here or then? Why not respond to the points I made on you when I made them at the time?

Because it wouldn't have been as effective.

Calling you out for it and hand delivering you the reason that I think it is scummy is easily corrected by you actually rectifying the situation later by asking me questions/engaging me.

Whereas waiting it out to see if you naturally engage and/or ask me questions on your own, without me having to voice my suspicion, gives me a stronger vibe if you either do, or do not, do this.

It's essentially why you're null as opposed to scum.

[elleheathen]

@elle, point 1 of my 314 is relating to how I post in general, not just to how I scum hunt.

My updated read on you was derived mainly from how you were interacting with other people during a time I was considerably less active. I would only say it's slightly more reliable than gut, or in other words not especially solid.

Really?
So, you're willing to put me to L-2 on something that's only:

slightly more reliable than gut, or in other words not especially solid.

Without doing anything to get a better read?

You can take that 'null' part out, now.

[Lone Ranger]

L-2 is no more significant than any other vote. It is two weeks to deadline. I'm debating between Elle and Awesome as the better lynch today.

[Lone Ranger]

you don't think the back and forth over not providing reads while saying that you have them, only to ultimately NOT HAVE THEM, isn't scum

If you are town, you should be able to figure out where you are going wrong here.

[Grib]

elle, are you scumreading people who are scumreading you?

I still don't like your implication that you know davesaz is town.

[Kaboose]

Oh man where do drafts go when I save them? I can't find what I had worked on at work.

[Grib]

Oh man where do drafts go when I save them? I can't find what I had worked on at work.

User Control Panel > Overview tab > Manage Drafts

[Kaboose]

Oh FML it's gone.

[NJAC]

There is a masons team, composed by two masons. They will recruit another member at any time in the game. Read the setup and Sample Role PMs.

Any thoughts beyond the setup speculation yet?

It was more setup clarification than speculation, and yes: I'm working on the thoughts. More in brief...

[NJAC]

I agree with 140. davesaz' questions were not that bad imo, so Grib calling him scum for that looks a bit out of the place.

While I finish reading:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grib

[Kaboose]

362 - I know it's been a few days, but could you explain this post to me? If you're town, and would love to do that as town, why don't you do it?

366 - This read more like a town post than other posts from Elle. It showed concern, something Elle has lacked in other posts in my opinion.

375 - I agreed with the case presented here on Elle.

380 - Riddle, why are you avoiding posting here? Why do you care about an alt when a clear exchange has taken place between LR and Elle that should be looked over?

382 - If I remember your 362 correct, you're reading someone as town because they would bet a lynch on someone being scum, and here you say they're both the same alignment. Does this mean you're thinking they're both town? You even made sure to argue your point that Elle's post was town against Grib. But now you're acting like it could be either or.

392 - LR was called out on her town reads, and she made a big deal about it because she was being accused as scum for not presenting her reasons. This seemed less like trying to help, and more like you just wanted to stir up a storm again as it seemed Elle and LR were closing their exchange. You really seemed to ask a couple questions here that you could have answered yourself by reading in my opinion.

395 - I kind of felt this was an OMGUS vote as to me LR wasn't the only one seeing you as scum at the point she replaced in I believe. So she started pointing out other things and you just tried to turn everything on her and then you voted for her once you saw Cheetory probing LR a bit.

404 - You actually kind of did say it was town vs. town because you suggested Elle was town, and then defended your feeling against Grib when he said he disagreed. You mentioned having Elle as a town read, but not enough to admit it was TvT?

406 - Wait now you DON'T think they're the same? You did in 382...

409 - Oh here you say something I'm saying in this post. Good job.

410 - I didn't mean to ignore anyone, I was trying to play but a very busy week kept me in and out of the site. I'm open to all questions about anyone or anything and I'll do my best to give my feelings.

416 - Personally, Grib, I don't know if I've got much opinion on Green Crayons one way or the other. They jumped on my Corpses wagon pretty easily without much effort from me to sway anyone I think. Is there something you wanted to point out?

419 - I generally like your posts, and I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong here... But weren't you just all over Elle? Why would you consider switching that easily? The way you attacked Elle would make me think you'd see her lynch out and then go after Awesome. Something about this doesn't add up to me.

422 - Grib, you know that's more or less my case on Elle right?

429 - With so much time on the deadline, are you giving up as a defense to hope we read this as a town post? I really don't like it because there's like 12 days or something until deadline and you're already assuming you're the lynch? It's like a reverse psychology thing here.

I like Grib, and Lone Ranger for townfolk. They've been applying the most pressure to people, and posting with the most reckless abandon. I really don't read their posts and think they've thought about each sentence as much as typing from their heart. Gosh that sounds sappy.

I guess since I'm town reading Grib, I'll fall off of Corpses(I will tell you "I told you so" if the chance arrives later) I still have a gut feeling, but I'm okay falling off because I'm having issues with WhatIsSwag now. Dave and Elle are still on my scum list.

Elle and WhatIsSwag, I would be happy to see either lynched really. If I had to pick one, I think I'd like to see WhatIsSwag lynched just for the weird back tracking he did in calling Elle town in one post, defending it in the next, and then being uncommitted to saying she was town later... That was weird.

[Kaboose]

I agree with 140. davesaz' questions were not that bad imo, so Grib calling him scum for that looks a bit out of the place.

While I finish reading:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grib

So you're going to throw a vote on Grib before you're done reading? On the person who seems to be high on most people's town reads? What does this vote accomplish exactly? I think THIS looks a bit out of place.

[Kaboose]

Well I guess I say most, but when I look at it it's me and Elle(a scum read of mine who is reading him as town...) Still your vote makes no sense to me.