Mini 1624: Joss Whedon Mafia: The Musical (Game Over)

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

ffery
Sorry if I missed it
How confident is this Cabd townread? Nacho-you levels?

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Antihero

I have been told that lurking Antihero = scum Antihero. Mara is against this but Nacho is pretty easily destroying her defense so yeah.

[Marquis]

oh I was going to do that too but I got distracted by F16 being ew
VOTE: Anti

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What does Nacho think? Also what do you think of my points that Antihero hasn't been very active onsite at all? And the reasons I was townreading him when he did post?

Also, Marquis pretending there is some implied reason why he is town feels off as well. The only thing I can think of is that he was wagoned D2 and people moved off of him onto scum. But there was never a counterwagon at all. A lot of the same people voting him (me, Regfan, JesusBuddha) moved off of him and onto Mikuru. Him not re-evaluating based off of that feels scummy as well as there is no reason for me to be there and switch wagons when I could have just either not shown up or continuing to insist that I won't settle considering time was running out fast.

[jesusbuddhavrishnathebest]

What does Nacho think? Also what do you think of my points that Antihero hasn't been very active onsite at all? And the reasons I was townreading him when he did post?

Nacho is the one that told me to make that vote (because I was already logged in). He has been lurking, yes, but it's clearly not because he can't make time for games:

/in for 583
(hydra of TellTaleHeart and Antihero)

/in for ika's game if there's room for another hydra
(Hydra of TellTaleHeart and Antihero)

Pretty sure he's not in any other games, so him lurking here is obviously going to look like he's lurking everywhere.

[Marquis]

lol

an encryptor is the best role any scum could have when not already covered by game mechanics. hands down. the role makes or breaks a potential scum win

and yet you still think i'm scum

mikuru wasn't being suspected like i was or wagoned at all like i was

when you're scum, you fight your lynch. but you don't fight it onto a partner in a much better situation than your own.

you of all people should know how i play scum. you practically exploded over it. and this isn't my scum game so sit down and look at someone else for once

[serrapaladin]

I really don't like the way Cabd approached today...

How do you see it benefiting scum?

that depends on boon's alignment. which we still don't know because egg has successfully
stalled us. it could be a super scum gambit, or it might aim at drawing boon's claim into question.

i'm also not really liking marquis' play today, although her claim sort of makes sense.

i'm not feeling anti votes, as too many people seem to be happy to abandon townreads on him.

[Marquis]

A lot of the same people voting him (me, Regfan, JesusBuddha) moved off of him and onto Mikuru.

also lol at this

Mikuru (7): Regfan, Egg, Murder of Crows, Yoncé, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Jesusbuddhavrishnathebest, Medea the Alien

you don't get townpoints for hopping on after my wagon dissipated and when this was already at 4 votes. that's just as easily and maybe even probably a scum vote blending in, and whether or not you're scum there's a good chance it might be medea

giving the scumwagon traction gets you town points not starting it not knowing that it could possibly be a lynch or ending it to blend in with the crowd. this is also part of why i'm seeing a lot of similarities between murder and me readwise and while it's odd and making me paranoid i've also been reading them as town for a short while now.

also while egg f16 and medea don't look great from this, those who didn't vote mikuru shouldn't be ignored

Antihero (1): Boonskiies
Egg (1): Eyestott
Yoncé (3): Antihero, Mikuru, Serrapaladin

serra conftown, eyestott major townread, mikuru dead scum

anti and boon are weird. anti's lurking is scummy, boon's ignorance of everything is... wtf.

[Murder of Crows]

Hey guys so we should really decide on something to lynch in the next 24 hours and do it. If we no lynch again, I will give up on everything.

On that note, I guess ffery and I should really put our heads together cause its time to make up our minds. I think we are both going a little soft on F16. My only gripe with the AH lynch is that it feels too easy. Boon/Eye have had really weird interactions throughout this game which ffery has also mentioned.

[Murder of Crows]

ffery
Sorry if I missed it
How confident is this Cabd townread? Nacho-you levels?

Not that high, no. High enough I feel like I should be defending him against being lynched.

[Murder of Crows]

Question back to you. You know my play was off in the Serum and Steel game. I mostly held it together, but I was way off my meta in that game.

I really don't think a genuine read from town-you would have looked much like the read you had of me.

And in fact reading the scum QT you thought I might be scum on the other team at one point in that game.

My play here is unabashedly worse than that game. In that game I was suspicous of people townreading me when I knew my play was off. Why do you think that Regfan thinking I'm scum should surprise me or make me blind to what he's overall bringing to the game?

The bolded is actually not true. Besides a minor moment of paranoia toward the end of D3, I was fairly confident you were town. When I replaced in, I was trying to figure out whether you were on the other scum team and concluded that you weren't based on your interaction with me and with your reaction to your wagon pushed by Antihero. You have a different definition of what is "off" then me and I don't think the games where you feel your play is off corresponds to whether people can see you as town. I felt your play was fairly strong in Serum and Steel although not in the conventional (NY169/Mafia in the Air) way.

I'll address your other question a little later.

Mafia on the Air is a really strange game to bring up as one of my conventionally strong games. :/

But, the reason I iso'd you was because I wanted to look at your reasons for townreading Anti.

2) Antihero - I liked Antihero's push on LMP out of RVS and the confidence in his push felt like the way he normally pushes scumreads as town and I have a really hard time seeing Antihero make Post 167 as scum and I absolutely love the way he went about pushing his read in Post 283 and the vibe that he gives off when he is town and knows that he is right is something Anithero is unable to fake. Would really like Ffery's explanation for her concerns here since the forcefulness with which he is pushing LMP matches the way he was pushing Pixel in Serum and Steel and I'm not sure why you are hung up on his push on you not matching his push in SS where he was wrong. Meta is progressive and if he pushed you as town and was wrong, it makes more sense to hesitate on a push there as opposed to push again with the same amount of certainty and I know that you know this based on my inside view of your scumhunting from Mafia In the Air. While I don't agree that the way Boonskiies used his role is scummy, Antihero's absolute confidence and belief that he caught scum in Post 929 and subsequent interaction felt incredibly genuine and his skepticism that Boon would make a bad move as town makes a metric fuckton of sense when considered in light of Mini 1609 where BoonSkiies played the VI card and went on to win as scum. I also feel that Anti as scum wouldn't be bold enough to make an aggressive attack on JesusBuddha the way he has and his interaction with them felt like he was genuinely trying to sort them out.

What makes 167 unlikely coming from scum-antihero?

283 does look like townposting.

929 agree, too. But, I'm curious why boonskiies' use of his role to give anatole a lightning rod doesn't look scummy.

Have you played with scum-antihero?

There is too little condecsension and too much OMGUS but I'll elaborate in a bit. Would like Nacho to explain the townread and I'd also like Anti to explain it considering her reaction to his push on her in Serum and Steel was way, way, way different.

i don't remember it being way way different

The biggest difference I saw was that Ffery upon being pushed as town normally goes into observation mode making remarks about the gamestate. Whereas when scum, she puts emphasis on posting analysis/reads to talk her way out of it and as a last resort cuts down on her interactions with other players. What similarities did you find here vs Serum and Steel?

This assertion that I normally go into observation mode when being pushed as town is a really strange thing to say, too. There are all sorts of different ways I react to being pushed/suspected.

[Murder of Crows]

A lot of the same people voting him (me, Regfan, JesusBuddha) moved off of him and onto Mikuru.

also lol at this

Mikuru (7): Regfan, Egg, Murder of Crows, Yoncé, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Jesusbuddhavrishnathebest, Medea the Alien

you don't get townpoints for hopping on after my wagon dissipated and when this was already at 4 votes. that's just as easily and maybe even probably a scum vote blending in, and whether or not you're scum there's a good chance it might be medea

giving the scumwagon traction gets you town points not starting it not knowing that it could possibly be a lynch or ending it to blend in with the crowd. this is also part of why i'm seeing a lot of similarities between murder and me readwise and while it's odd and making me paranoid i've also been reading them as town for a short while now.

also while egg f16 and medea don't look great from this, those who didn't vote mikuru shouldn't be ignored

Antihero (1): Boonskiies
Egg (1): Eyestott
Yoncé (3): Antihero, Mikuru, Serrapaladin

serra conftown, eyestott major townread, mikuru dead scum

anti and boon are weird. anti's lurking is scummy, boon's ignorance of everything is... wtf.

Given that scum had daytalk prior to day 3, then boonskiies is either feigning a lot of ignorance as scum, or he really is that out of touch, that the only thing that even registers in this game for him is stuff that directly relates to him, which could be true of any alignment, but I dunno if he'd ignore scumchat the way he's mostly ignored the data in the game thread.

It's awful, antitown play imo. Doesn't make him for sure scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

giving the scumwagon traction gets you town points not starting it not knowing that it could possibly be a lynch or ending it to blend in with the crowd. this is also part of why i'm seeing a lot of similarities between murder and me readwise and while it's odd and making me paranoid i've also been reading them as town for a short while now.

Context matters. What gives deadline wagons traction? Votes that make it viable. I agree that Medea had no choice so in it and am not factoring in their contribution into a townread. Me and JesusBuddha were what gave it traction. Egg not voting you but being quick to vote Mikuru makes him lean town. You and Murder are the wildcards that I've been trying to make sense of. My scumread on you lessened for similar reasons as to why I'm reading Egg as probably town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey guys so we should really decide on something to lynch in the next 24 hours and do it. If we no lynch again, I will give up on everything.

On that note, I guess ffery and I should really put our heads together cause its time to make up our minds. I think we are both going a little soft on F16. My only gripe with the AH lynch is that it feels too easy. Boon/Eye have had really weird interactions throughout this game which ffery has also mentioned.

I want this explained. Part of me wondered if it was Ffery's "

talk-to-my-scumreads-as-if-they-are-town-and-see-what-echoes-I-get-back

" strategy.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mafia on the Air is a really strange game to bring up as one of my conventionally strong games. :/

To me, it was strong. We were en-route to trouncing scum save the fact that it was a bastard game (actually we did trounce the mafia), and then SSK won.

it's simple really.
post 14:
>"wanna see where it takes us"
>avoids the biggest wagon
>implication is that you're doing something "edgy"
it's not. evening the wagons is the most square, cheap grab for towncred possible. it's tryhard.
you're scum.

The confidence here comes across as Antihero genuinely believes in his scumread. It is the little things like "you are scum" at the end. The thing I noticed about Antihero in Serum and Steel is that he is brimming with confidence and absolutely believes that he is right when he is pushing strongly. The way he agreed with me on Ceph when we both pushed him for instance. I was legitimately townreading him and for the most part he was my strongest townread there.

As for Boonskiies, I explained it here:

If he only saw the lightning rod at F2F mafia and didn't think that it would redirect kills to his target, I don't find it scummy of him to give it to his townread although suboptimal and the "I'm done answering questions about why I targeted Anatole. I feel like a broken record" feels like he actually believed that his move was pro-town. I also like Boonskiies aggression in Post 617 and his push on Istott where he said that "You got into a mini heated argument, and as soon as it started heating up, you wanted to pull away, as you were about to be in the spotlight." feels like townie overconfidence and not a line I normally see coming from scum. The entire idea that he as scum would claim to have a lightning rod and use it on a townread and then give F2F mafia as an explanation doesn't make any sense at all as a scum strategy.

More recently, I also like that he is the only one even considering that Marquis could be scum and I think everyone is dismissing him as town too easily.

Have you played with scum-antihero?

Just the one, we were scum together. Anti had a low level of activity (only 9 posts) and needed to be replaced. But even when he was active, he didn't hit any of the town-markers I generally use to read him. Look at his posts and the way he makes his pushes there. They are a whole lot weaker and the belief that he is right never shows through.

[Egg]

Serra, how did I stop us from knowing boon's alignment. Are you for some reason assuming I'm an investigative with a result on him or something?

Marq, why isn't my second vote on Mikuru worth town points? Regfan clearly stated he wanted to start a flash wagon and I was all like sweet yes let's do it.

F16, I actually did vote Yonce, but only when I thought that was the only option before deadline.

AP, you keep going on about no lynching. Either vote Antihero or make a strong case for someone else.

[Murder of Crows]

Hey guys so we should really decide on something to lynch in the next 24 hours and do it. If we no lynch again, I will give up on everything.

On that note, I guess ffery and I should really put our heads together cause its time to make up our minds. I think we are both going a little soft on F16. My only gripe with the AH lynch is that it feels too easy. Boon/Eye have had really weird interactions throughout this game which ffery has also mentioned.

I want this explained. Part of me wondered if it was Ffery's "

talk-to-my-scumreads-as-if-they-are-town-and-see-what-echoes-I-get-back

" strategy.

I don't know what you're asking to be explained?

I'm semi afk for the next couple hours. will reply when I can - after I know what you're asking.

Mafia on the Air is a really strange game to bring up as one of my conventionally strong games. :/

To me, it was strong. We were en-route to trouncing scum save the fact that it was a bastard game (actually we did trounce the mafia), and then SSK won.

That was town being strong, not so much me being strong town.

it's simple really.
post 14:
>"wanna see where it takes us"
>avoids the biggest wagon
>implication is that you're doing something "edgy"
it's not. evening the wagons is the most square, cheap grab for towncred possible. it's tryhard.
you're scum.

The confidence here comes across as Antihero genuinely believes in his scumread. It is the little things like "you are scum" at the end. The thing I noticed about Antihero in Serum and Steel is that he is brimming with confidence and absolutely believes that he is right when he is pushing strongly. The way he agreed with me on Ceph when we both pushed him for instance. I was legitimately townreading him and for the most part he was my strongest townread there.

As for Boonskiies, I explained it here:

If he only saw the lightning rod at F2F mafia and didn't think that it would redirect kills to his target, I don't find it scummy of him to give it to his townread although suboptimal and the "I'm done answering questions about why I targeted Anatole. I feel like a broken record" feels like he actually believed that his move was pro-town. I also like Boonskiies aggression in Post 617 and his push on Istott where he said that "You got into a mini heated argument, and as soon as it started heating up, you wanted to pull away, as you were about to be in the spotlight." feels like townie overconfidence and not a line I normally see coming from scum. The entire idea that he as scum would claim to have a lightning rod and use it on a townread and then give F2F mafia as an explanation doesn't make any sense at all as a scum strategy.

More recently, I also like that he is the only one even considering that Marquis could be scum and I think everyone is dismissing him as town too easily.

Have you played with scum-antihero?

Just the one, we were scum together. Anti had a low level of activity (only 9 posts) and needed to be replaced. But even when he was active, he didn't hit any of the town-markers I generally use to read him. Look at his posts and the way he makes his pushes there. They are a whole lot weaker and the belief that he is right never shows through.

I'll take a look at that game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey guys so we should really decide on something to lynch in the next 24 hours and do it. If we no lynch again, I will give up on everything.

On that note, I guess ffery and I should really put our heads together cause its time to make up our minds.

I think we are both going a little soft on F16.

My only gripe with the AH lynch is that it feels too easy. Boon/Eye have had really weird interactions throughout this game which ffery has also mentioned.

I want this explained. Part of me wondered if it was Ffery's "

talk-to-my-scumreads-as-if-they-are-town-and-see-what-echoes-I-get-back

" strategy.

I don't know what you're asking to be explained?

I'm semi afk for the next couple hours. will reply when I can - after I know what you're asking.

I meant to bold that part.

[sangres]

It was your post 2466, after I thought about it and reread part of tales. I nitpicked the hell out of your posts leading up to that one, as well as 2466 when I first saw it, but the implied stances on other players there were pretty conflicted and chaotic. From what I've seen of your scum-play you're more collected and consistent than that.

I'm at the point where I find stuff to nitpick every time I reread some of your posts in this game. It feels like a bad focus. I can kind of see your mikuru vote as scum-bus, because there was really nothing in your earlier stance that suggested you'd be amenable to that lynch. But, I think maybe (?) you have a trust in town-regfan that is similar to my trust of Nacho when I think he's town - sometimes I'll follow Nacho onto a wagon that I had no interest in prior to his pushing it.

[Murder of Crows]

It was your post 2466, after I thought about it and reread part of tales. I nitpicked the hell out of your posts leading up to that one, as well as 2466 when I first saw it, but the implied stances on other players there were pretty conflicted and chaotic. From what I've seen of your scum-play you're more collected and consistent than that.

I'm at the point where I find stuff to nitpick every time I reread some of your posts in this game. It feels like a bad focus. I can kind of see your mikuru vote as scum-bus, because there was really nothing in your earlier stance that suggested you'd be amenable to that lynch. But, I think maybe (?) you have a trust in town-regfan that is similar to my trust of Nacho when I think he's town - sometimes I'll follow Nacho onto a wagon that I had no interest in prior to his pushing it.

Ok, that was an epic alt slip. :/

[Antihero]

alright.... let's get to gettin'

[Antihero]

What does Nacho think? Also what do you think of my points that Antihero hasn't been very active onsite at all? And the reasons I was townreading him when he did post?

Nacho is the one that told me to make that vote (because I was already logged in). He has been lurking, yes, but it's clearly not because he can't make time for games:

/in for 583
(hydra of TellTaleHeart and Antihero)

/in for ika's game if there's room for another hydra
(Hydra of TellTaleHeart and Antihero)

Pretty sure he's not in any other games, so him lurking here is obviously going to look like he's lurking everywhere.

i'm going to be in a supporting role in both of those. notice they're hydra games...

if you're stalking me, not sure how you missed this:

this mental breakdown was just a series in a loooooong list, mollie. it wasn't just this game.

truth is, i've been on a downward spiral since this summer when kotor ended. since then there's just a roster of games i couldn't get through without winding up in this self-loathing awfulness:

suburban warfare
serum and steel
quickness
the wire
ikaruga
autumn serenade
c9++

...it's just crazy...

i think i'm going to finish out all my current games and then not sign up for any more by myself a while. i'll play heartless games if tth wants me to, but other than that, i think it's for the best i remove myself for a bit.

i'm not selectively lurking and you even admitted it yourself nacho

[Antihero]

i'm not feeling anti votes, as too many people seem to be happy to abandon townreads on him.

lurking is p much my scum meta and i've fallen into it, but it's not b/c i drew a scum role pm this game
it's b/c i'm mostly out of gas (see: that post from winter ball i just quoted)

the only reason i agreed to sign up for the heartless games is that tth just wants to be able to bounce ideas off me

[Murder of Crows]

Anti how caught up are you on day 3 goings on?

[Antihero]

'mkay reading the 90s and boon can't seem to keep his shit straight AND cabd doesn't really have a day vig

what's going on here...?