Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[eyestott]

Mostly skimming right now.

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

i dont trust you on that at all. why do you think he is scum?
Dave is a player i would consider voting right now but i want to know what your case against him is.

dodgy, mastin is just as (If not more) experienced at mafia as the likes of sjg and Crunkus. She cant fully explain, because it would be against the rules (I think because of the "no talking about ongoing games" rule).

[dodgy56]

Mostly skimming right now.

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

i dont trust you on that at all. why do you think he is scum?
Dave is a player i would consider voting right now but i want to know what your case against him is.

dodgy, mastin is just as (If not more) experienced at mafia as the likes of sjg and Crunkus. She cant fully explain, because it would be against the rules (I think because of the "no talking about ongoing games" rule).

being experienced doesnt mean i should blindly trust him. so far i dont have any idea why she thinks dave is scum.. let alone a full explanation

[eyestott]

Mostly skimming right now.

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

i dont trust you on that at all. why do you think he is scum?
Dave is a player i would consider voting right now but i want to know what your case against him is.

dodgy, mastin is just as (If not more) experienced at mafia as the likes of sjg and Crunkus. She cant fully explain, because it would be against the rules (I think because of the "no talking about ongoing games" rule).

being experienced doesnt mean i should blindly trust him. so far i dont have any idea why she thinks dave is scum.. let alone a full explanation

I'm just saying that technically she can't give any reasons yet.

[eyestott]

Mostly skimming right now.

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

i dont trust you on that at all. why do you think he is scum?
Dave is a player i would consider voting right now but i want to know what your case against him is.

dodgy, mastin is just as (If not more) experienced at mafia as the likes of sjg and Crunkus. She cant fully explain, because it would be against the rules (I think because of the "no talking about ongoing games" rule).

being experienced doesnt mean i should blindly trust him. so far i dont have any idea why she thinks dave is scum.. let alone a full explanation

I'm just saying that technically she can't give any reasons yet.

When she does give her reasons though, they better make damn good sense.

[davesaz]

Mostly skimming right now.

There are a couple of reads that I want to get to, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Basically, I want to hold back on giving the info, yet not actually forget what the reads are, but don't want to run afoul of mod rules or what I say being transparently obvious, to let the read develop for a little while longer. I'm coming up on a bit of a blank. Let's just say I basically have thoughts on almost every player in the game right now, albeit mostly weak. I'm really struggling to think what to do about most of it, but I will reiterate this:

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to have a read on so little information.

[eyestott]

Mostly skimming right now.

There are a couple of reads that I want to get to, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Basically, I want to hold back on giving the info, yet not actually forget what the reads are, but don't want to run afoul of mod rules or what I say being transparently obvious, to let the read develop for a little while longer. I'm coming up on a bit of a blank. Let's just say I basically have thoughts on almost every player in the game right now, albeit mostly weak. I'm really struggling to think what to do about most of it, but I will reiterate this:

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to have a read on so little information.

What makes you think that mastin has little information?

[davesaz]

I would agree with this. Those overly concerned with maintaining a town look, and their own meta is moderately scummy.

I have observed that being concerned with looking town isn't very alignment indicative, but reading that concern as scummy is somewhat indicative of scum (i.e. scum use it for a "case" more often than town do).

[davesaz]

Ready

Yo.

Didn't bother to look at how many scum there are in the game (presumably, three), but copper and BlueBloodedToffee are either both town or both scum. (Lean the former.)

Aninenim is town.

One of Wicked/dave is scum, but not both. I lean dave.

Oh.
And I am totally /ready.

QFT. No information.

@mastin: If you're using the observation that I've flipped town in every game to predict I'm scum here, remember that dice have no memory. BTW is there a record for longest streak rolling town on this site?

[eyestott]

Ready

Yo.

Didn't bother to look at how many scum there are in the game (presumably, three), but copper and BlueBloodedToffee are either both town or both scum. (Lean the former.)

Aninenim is town.

One of Wicked/dave is scum, but not both. I lean dave.

Oh.
And I am totally /ready.

QFT. No information.

@mastin: If you're using the observation that I've flipped town in every game to predict I'm scum here, remember that dice have no memory. BTW is there a record for longest streak rolling town on this site?

I'll vote mastin if that's the reason. I doubt it is, though.

[davesaz]

Mostly skimming right now.

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

i dont trust you on that at all. why do you think he is scum?
Dave is a player i would consider voting right now but i want to know what your case against him is.

dodgy, mastin is just as (If not more) experienced at mafia as the likes of sjg and Crunkus. She cant fully explain, because it would be against the rules (I think because of the "no talking about ongoing games" rule).

being experienced doesnt mean i should blindly trust him. so far i dont have any idea why she thinks dave is scum.. let alone a full explanation

TBH, my bet is "reaction test". So I'm not all that concerned about it really.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up

Killapenguin, 54 – the post in itself is null. What I don't understand is not voting for Dodgy just because Vettrock did that before. On the other hand, Vettrock's question in 61 is legit too.

Mastin, 62 (and her pre-game posts) – Mastin is being Mastin, lol. (Although I admit that I have very little experience in playing with her.)

Wicked, 68 – there's truth in your logic. But, according to my experience, making discussions and cases out of very little things is a null-tell.

Heartless, 84 – why is Eyestott a good vote? By the way, are you SK again? ^_^

Killapenguin, 88 – this post, along with the other one shows that he's very defensive. Tean noticed the same in 93. However, since he's a relatively new player, I'm not sure whether it is an alignment tell at all.

Wicked, 101 – agreed, setup speculation is useless now.

EyeStott, 102 – (Note to self: re-check this post after EyeStott flips. Sorry, everyone, I can't explain this because of the site rules.)

Dodgy, 108 – why the vote? Is it the thing written in 111?

Mastin, 121 – why is Davesaz scum? Or was it a joke?

Davesaz, 129 instead of advocating your dislike, why don't you ask for her reasons? (Okay, I didn't like 132 at all. I don't know why, it may be an intuition.) Side-note. In another game I found Davesaz so scummy that he was my mislynch plan (I was scum there). So, I'm going to think twice before starting scumreading him.

________

So, I know that I haven't been able to produce too many useful things. I know. But, these things might be useful later.

[Faustbyte]

Eyestott seems to be white knighting mastin pretty hard there. Not good combing this with his buddy buddying-like behavior with dodgy earlier.

[Faustbyte]

Damn. Mod delete this pls.

[Faustbyte]

I summon thee mod

[copper223]

@Dave
If you're not worried about Mastin's vote why do you keep mentioning it and have already decided it was based on nothing/it's a reaction test?

@Eyestott
why do you think dodge is leaning scum on you for being mister nice guy?

[killapenwin]

As you clearly have not bothered to read what I have been writing and because I find your posts condescending:

vote: Tean

[davesaz]

Hmm, wonder whose alt slip that is.

[davesaz]

@Dave
If you're not worried about Mastin's vote why do you keep mentioning it and have already decided it was based on nothing/it's a reaction test?

Your post implies that having a conversation about something means I'm worried about it. Why do you want to make that assumption?

[killapenwin]

Seeing that penwin is humbly requesting for reasons upon why I voted his sorry ding dong, I will be glad to oblige.

Originally I simply voted the penguins as an RVS. No harm no fowl. Just seeing if I can net some sort of reaction, and reaction is what he gave.

The pengling thusly replies with a post claiming that because I voted him, I am scum. An odd claim, seeing that he fails to even place a vote on my head. Why, may I ask would you not vote for someone after clearly stating that they are scum?

The plot thickens when Stott adds his votes and calls out these problems. Pengdong replies saying that Stott's vote is scummy aswell, and without good reason. Now there are at least two people that Pengin is calling scummy and yet he still is hesitant to vote for either one of them.

I believe his actions so far centers around himself. He is being super defensive, and not once has he even tried to scum hunt. To reinforce this idea please look at his posts:

Post #54: Odd post commenting on RVS. The diction of this posts (particularly of the word 'decending') suggests that he frowns upon RVS. Yet he follows it up by saying he wanted to RVS someone else, but someone beat him to it. Besides the hypocritical content, he is also saying that he is hesitant to place a vote on top of another's. This is suggesting that he didn't really want to draw too much attention (which, looking at the votes against him, pretty much backfired).

Post #56: His first scum read. Coincidentally it's a read on someone who voted against him.

Post #88: His second scum read. Again, it's a read on someone who voted against him.

These posts clearly state that penguin is focus on the defensive and has not once scum hunted. Definitely not townie behaviour. I'm going to take off my gloves and say this is pretty dang scummy.

Another interesting thing to note is that he has more of a problem with the RVS votes against him rather than the one on the others. He calls me and Stott scummy for 'RVS voting' against him, yet what about Aneninen? What about the rest of the people who RVSed? It is a coincidence that he is only calling out the people who voted against him? I think not.

To me, it seems his play so far is "everyone who calls me scummy is scum."

Because of the reasons stated above, I think the Penguin is scummy

If you bothered to read what I wrote before this post you would see me explain that the haiku post was just joking around @vett make sure you read that, too.

RVS is clearly a bull shit way of excusing yourself of throwing votes widely without having to justifying your reason, only giving reason after the fact is bull shit too.

It is not scummy to ask for a reason why someone has voted on you. I even said (before this post) I wouldn't look favourably if you were to keep your vote on me and you have chosen to do so and added in this condescending post where you colourfully address me as:
pengling (making me out as an infant)
pengdong (clearly just an insult)
and use of 'the' penguin just adds to making this post smarmy as hell.

I really can't see why a townie would be this smarmy in his post with such little information to go on, it's like you are just artificially creating something out of nothing, which is what scum would do. Townies would ask questions / investigate more.

If you feel I was being defensive then here are two reasons why:
1) The person who gets the most votes early on is usually the one who ends up lynched especially in the early stages.
2) Calling someone out for their reasoning behind a vote isn't defensive.
3) I saw a potential bandwagon forming on me.
4) I am actually of the belief that putting a lot of votes out early is bad as it makes scums life easier a) for bandwagoning, b) hiding (people focussing on votes rather than hunting)

[killapenwin]

throwing votes wildly*

[killapenwin]

I see we have all just descended into throwing out random votes with no explanation, I was just about to vote on dodgy and with the same reasoning but that damn vettrock beat me to it. Either that or he is playing Jedi mind tricks on me, which would be rather devious of him. I am watching you little green dwarf.

So youre criticizing people for giving a lack of explanation in RVS, then say you were just about to vote dodgy for the same reasoning someone else gave?
VOTE: Killapenwin.

1: @eyestott: You mean me pointing out what everyone is doing and then saying I not going to because someone already posted the thing I was going to say to join in with the random voting?

2: You seem pretty quick to throw a vote on me without even questioning me first, I see that as more scummy than town.

3:I am not sure if people even know what a haiku is and at this stage of the game I don't think anyone is going to have a strong read on Tean's alignment after 2 posts. So no, I do not know if Tean is scum or not but similarly to Eyestott I wouldn't look favourably on Tean's were to continue his vote on me simply for his lack of reasoning.

4: Clearly any attempt at banter I have tried to make has failed miserably so I will just be serious from now on.

1: I didnt understand this. Why should what other people are doing in RVS prevent you from doing things?
2: We were barely out of RVS at that time. My vote was only slightly serious, but having seen your response, I'm happy with it. Why is it scummy, and better yet, if you think I'm scummy, why arent you voting me? I actually find you scummy for just calling me scummy, but doing nothing. Its passive aggressive behaviour, which is pretty scummy.
3: Hilariously
Socio-economic
Hippopotamus
Both of your scumreads (which you havent voted) are on people who have voted you. Additionally, youre passing off Tean's vote as one with a "lack of reasoning". And again with passive aggressiveness, but this time its masking a threat.
4: Where have you made "banter"? Or are you trying to pass off scummy behavior as banter?
"Nah guys, when i said that, i was just joking!"

1. As I said he posted what I was going to throw out as joke vote as that seemed to be what the rest of you were doing at that stage.
2. Your vote on me looked like it was intended to start a bandwagon (it put me in the lead) and you never quizzed me you just decided to put me ahead of everyone else and as it had little reasoning I thought it was scummy.
3. I only get 1 vote and would like to use it wisely so I will put it on who I feel deserves to be voted for. 'Revenge voting' can also look scummy, too.
I would rather put my vote out there with a reason as to why I am voting that way than to not.
When you don't give a reason you deny that person and others the chance to challenge your vote, if we allow this to happen it gives scum a much higher chance of hiding behind poor reasoned votes. It is better for town to have as much info as possible to work on.
4. I tried a little bit with 'jedi mind tricks' post but like I say those posts were poorly received so I stopped.

[copper223]

@Dave

Your post implies that having a conversation about something means I'm worried about it. Why do you want to make that assumption?

Because if you really don't care one way or the other you just wait for further developments, in your position I'd be curious about where Mastin is going with this, assuming you're town:

- does she have a weird tell that is not working on me
- is she just faking it to show she is scumhunting
- is it a reaction test
- ...

instead you spent multiple posts claiming you're not worried about it, that she has nothing and that read is BS or at best it's a reaction test, that's not what someone that isn't worried does, your mindset is more along the lines of threat mitigation and while being defensive is not necessarily scummy, trying to hide it is.

[dodgy56]

there's definiteyl something weird going on in the mastin-eyestott-dave interaction.

[dodgy56]

I would agree with this. Those overly concerned with maintaining a town look, and their own meta is moderately scummy.

I have observed that being concerned with looking town isn't very alignment indicative, but reading that concern as scummy is somewhat indicative of scum (i.e. scum use it for a "case" more often than town do).

perhaps you may be right. all that means is that townies need to stop being concerned with their appearance. but i still dont really buy this.

[dodgy56]

Mostly skimming right now.

Dave is scum. You can trust me on that.

i dont trust you on that at all. why do you think he is scum?
Dave is a player i would consider voting right now but i want to know what your case against him is.

dodgy, mastin is just as (If not more) experienced at mafia as the likes of sjg and Crunkus. She cant fully explain, because it would be against the rules (I think because of the "no talking about ongoing games" rule).

being experienced doesnt mean i should blindly trust him. so far i dont have any idea why she thinks dave is scum.. let alone a full explanation

I'm just saying that technically she can't give any reasons yet.

When she does give her reasons though, they better make damn good sense.

this seems like a bit of a backdown? it seems like you dont want to be seen defending mastin. you go from being certain as to her motive to trying to downplay that certainty. its concerning