Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[copper223]

UNVOTE:
This kind of dumb play and "rage" combined with an early claim is very often town. The dog piling on the slot was also too quick for my liking.

Regarding beast, it's strange for scum to start the game by shifting your vote like he did, it draws attention, is easily attackable and can piss multiple people off just based on natural OMGUS, but it's true that after it he didn't write anything meaningful.

[mastin2]

i think wicked is likely town.

At this point, even if he's scum he's still town because dammit, he's just so damn town in his recent posting. (Mind you, I've always read him as scum when he's town so me having a townread is making me paranoid that this time he's actually scum. But screw paranoia, I'm sticking to that townread.)

[mastin2]

Also, super-close-to-chest right now, but I

may

have a second scumread.

[dodgy56]

UNVOTE:
This kind of dumb play and "rage" combined with an early claim is very often town. The dog piling on the slot was also too quick for my liking.

Regarding beast, it's strange for scum to start the game by shifting your vote like he did, it draws attention, is easily attackable and can piss multiple people off just based on natural OMGUS, but it's true that after it he didn't write anything meaningful.

im kinda thinking along these lines as well atm. not so much about claim but paticularly about how it built up. the build up of both the dave and killa lynches is kinda concerning. i also think there have been some sincere moments and i actually think his engagement with me on the issue of looking at your own image was sincere after his first post, which made him look worse. im still not convinced he isnt scum, but i have more doubt in my mind than i did before.

@copper, are there any votes in the dog piling that you like less than others? Do you think the bw was being pushed by town or scum? if scum which votes do you think are the scummiest?

[copper223]

@Dodgy
I like teen's vote the least, the speed with which it picked up hints at a town push to start off with.

[dodgy56]

@Dodgy
I like teen's vote the least, the speed with which it picked up hints at a town push to start off with.

i can understand that. its interesting that he was also involved in the Killapenwin bandwagon and jumped onto Dave once killa started losing momentum and once dave was gaining momentum

[dodgy56]

i think wicked is likely town.

At this point, even if he's scum he's still town because dammit, he's just so damn town in his recent posting. (Mind you, I've always read him as scum when he's town so me having a townread is making me paranoid that this time he's actually scum. But screw paranoia, I'm sticking to that townread.)

ohh i hate that feeling

[eyestott]

I see we have all just descended into throwing out random votes with no explanation, I was just about to vote on dodgy and with the same reasoning but that damn vettrock beat me to it. Either that or he is playing Jedi mind tricks on me, which would be rather devious of him. I am watching you little green dwarf.

So youre criticizing people for giving a lack of explanation in RVS, then say you were just about to vote dodgy for the same reasoning someone else gave?
VOTE: Killapenwin.

1: @eyestott: You mean me pointing out what everyone is doing and then saying I not going to because someone already posted the thing I was going to say to join in with the random voting?

2: You seem pretty quick to throw a vote on me without even questioning me first, I see that as more scummy than town.

3:I am not sure if people even know what a haiku is and at this stage of the game I don't think anyone is going to have a strong read on Tean's alignment after 2 posts. So no, I do not know if Tean is scum or not but similarly to Eyestott I wouldn't look favourably on Tean's were to continue his vote on me simply for his lack of reasoning.

4: Clearly any attempt at banter I have tried to make has failed miserably so I will just be serious from now on.

1: I didnt understand this. Why should what other people are doing in RVS prevent you from doing things?
2: We were barely out of RVS at that time. My vote was only slightly serious, but having seen your response, I'm happy with it. Why is it scummy, and better yet, if you think I'm scummy, why arent you voting me? I actually find you scummy for just calling me scummy, but doing nothing. Its passive aggressive behaviour, which is pretty scummy.
3: Hilariously
Socio-economic
Hippopotamus
Both of your scumreads (which you havent voted) are on people who have voted you. Additionally, youre passing off Tean's vote as one with a "lack of reasoning". And again with passive aggressiveness, but this time its masking a threat.
4: Where have you made "banter"? Or are you trying to pass off scummy behavior as banter?
"Nah guys, when i said that, i was just joking!"

1. As I said he posted what I was going to throw out as joke vote as that seemed to be what the rest of you were doing at that stage.
2. Your vote on me looked like it was intended to start a bandwagon (it put me in the lead) and you never quizzed me you just decided to put me ahead of everyone else and as it had little reasoning I thought it was scummy.
3. I only get 1 vote and would like to use it wisely so I will put it on who I feel deserves to be voted for. 'Revenge voting' can also look scummy, too.
I would rather put my vote out there with a reason as to why I am voting that way than to not.
When you don't give a reason you deny that person and others the chance to challenge your vote, if we allow this to happen it gives scum a much higher chance of hiding behind poor reasoned votes. It is better for town to have as much info as possible to work on.
4. I tried a little bit with 'jedi mind tricks' post but like I say those posts were poorly received so I stopped.

Point 2 and Point 3 really look like theyre coming from a town mindset.
I can see why he though my vote was bad, as it put him in the lead, and had little reasoning even though I dont think he realised it was a predominantly RVS vote.
I also liked his point where he says that he wants to use it wisely and that just OMGUSing is not what he wanted to do.

[eyestott]

You're welcome to lynch me if you think it's the right thing. I know it would be a mistake for town

I strongly considered self voting.

You're at L-2. If you really think that your lynch is bad, why on earth would you consider self voting?
I'd vote you, but you're at L-2 and we still have plenty of time, and a vote from me might:
Make you self-vote like youve strongly considered
Cause a quickhammer.

[eyestott]

Why are you claiming already? What pro-town reason would you have for revealing you're a VT?

Partially answered in 172. I don't really have a reason, other than being quite angry at the time.
I have self censored a couple of posts since then.
I strongly considered self voting.

Also, you cant just pass off a reveal as anger, and expect it to be fine.

[dodgy56]

I see we have all just descended into throwing out random votes with no explanation, I was just about to vote on dodgy and with the same reasoning but that damn vettrock beat me to it. Either that or he is playing Jedi mind tricks on me, which would be rather devious of him. I am watching you little green dwarf.

So youre criticizing people for giving a lack of explanation in RVS, then say you were just about to vote dodgy for the same reasoning someone else gave?
VOTE: Killapenwin.

1: @eyestott: You mean me pointing out what everyone is doing and then saying I not going to because someone already posted the thing I was going to say to join in with the random voting?

2: You seem pretty quick to throw a vote on me without even questioning me first, I see that as more scummy than town.

3:I am not sure if people even know what a haiku is and at this stage of the game I don't think anyone is going to have a strong read on Tean's alignment after 2 posts. So no, I do not know if Tean is scum or not but similarly to Eyestott I wouldn't look favourably on Tean's were to continue his vote on me simply for his lack of reasoning.

4: Clearly any attempt at banter I have tried to make has failed miserably so I will just be serious from now on.

1: I didnt understand this. Why should what other people are doing in RVS prevent you from doing things?
2: We were barely out of RVS at that time. My vote was only slightly serious, but having seen your response, I'm happy with it. Why is it scummy, and better yet, if you think I'm scummy, why arent you voting me? I actually find you scummy for just calling me scummy, but doing nothing. Its passive aggressive behaviour, which is pretty scummy.
3: Hilariously
Socio-economic
Hippopotamus
Both of your scumreads (which you havent voted) are on people who have voted you. Additionally, youre passing off Tean's vote as one with a "lack of reasoning". And again with passive aggressiveness, but this time its masking a threat.
4: Where have you made "banter"? Or are you trying to pass off scummy behavior as banter?
"Nah guys, when i said that, i was just joking!"

1. As I said he posted what I was going to throw out as joke vote as that seemed to be what the rest of you were doing at that stage.
2. Your vote on me looked like it was intended to start a bandwagon (it put me in the lead) and you never quizzed me you just decided to put me ahead of everyone else and as it had little reasoning I thought it was scummy.
3. I only get 1 vote and would like to use it wisely so I will put it on who I feel deserves to be voted for. 'Revenge voting' can also look scummy, too.
I would rather put my vote out there with a reason as to why I am voting that way than to not.
When you don't give a reason you deny that person and others the chance to challenge your vote, if we allow this to happen it gives scum a much higher chance of hiding behind poor reasoned votes. It is better for town to have as much info as possible to work on.
4. I tried a little bit with 'jedi mind tricks' post but like I say those posts were poorly received so I stopped.

Point 2 and Point 3 really look like theyre coming from a town mindset.
I can see why he though my vote was bad, as it put him in the lead, and had little reasoning even though I dont think he realised it was a predominantly RVS vote.
I also liked his point where he says that he wants to use it wisely and that just OMGUSing is not what he wanted to do.

ok that answer makes me feel a bit better about your unvote

[eyestott]

Oh yeah, now that its at L-3 again, Ill VOTE: davesaz, until he stops being my top scumread.

[dodgy56]

Oh yeah, now that its at L-3 again, Ill VOTE: davesaz, until he stops being my top scumread.

did you read anything at all that copper or i wrote on dave and why he is looking less scummy? this vote isnt helping my perception of you. What do you make of how the bandwagons on killa and dave have developed and/or collapsed?

also
UNVOTE:

[eyestott]

Oh yeah, now that its at L-3 again, Ill VOTE: davesaz, until he stops being my top scumread.

did you read anything at all that copper or i wrote on dave and why he is looking less scummy? this vote isnt helping my perception of you. What do you make of how the bandwagons on killa and dave have developed and/or collapsed?

also
UNVOTE:

I figured that since I had literally just said that I'd be voting him if not for the amount of votes on him. It changes, so I changed my vote.
Ill take another look, though, and let you know what I think.

[davesaz]

Why are you claiming already? What pro-town reason would you have for revealing you're a VT?

Partially answered in 172. I don't really have a reason, other than being quite angry at the time.
I have self censored a couple of posts since then.
I strongly considered self voting.

Also, you cant just pass off a reveal as anger, and expect it to be fine.

It is the truth. I don't expect it to be "fine".

[davesaz]

I was kinda hoping that BBT would have done something. He's presumably 7 hours ahead of me and it's mid day there now.

[davesaz]

Also, super-close-to-chest right now, but I

may

have a second scumread.

@thread: Is it ok for one player to get pounded for not having strong reads, but another to be proud of

maybe

having a 2nd scum read?
I don't think so.
Where are the questions?
And I really don't care about reputation.

[dodgy56]

Also, super-close-to-chest right now, but I

may

have a second scumread.

@thread: Is it ok for one player to get pounded for not having strong reads, but another to be proud of

maybe

having a 2nd scum read?
I don't think so.
Where are the questions?
And I really don't care about reputation.

i think thats a fair question. so far i dont see how anyone can have a

strong read

on anyone either way. If anyone has a strong town or scum read, please explain why. FMPOV having weak reads at this point is fine. id rather people have weak reads that are logical and that i can follow than supposed strong reads that havent been explained. if you have a read i think you should be sharing it. or giving us a good reason why you arent. if you are town you have nothing to hide other than your role?

[vettrock]

Also, super-close-to-chest right now, but I

may

have a second scumread.

I don't get the secrecy "close-to-chest" thing at this point of the game. At this point all reads are pretty speculative. Someone slipping and you are waiting form them to confirm it with some other action? About the only reason I can say for holding things back at this point in the game.

[Aneninen]

I wrote my doubts about Davesaz in my previous post.
Sure, his readlist in 177 is pigeon poop. Full of nulls and many of the active players aren't there at all. His VT-claim was too early as well. Despite of these I still think he's town. The speed of his wagon and the lack of any resistance strengthen this read.

These players were or are on his wagon: Mastin2, Copper, Wicked, Dodgy, Tean, Eyestott.
There must be at least one scum among those names.

Mastin2 – this wagon is a null-tell, she started it and started pushing it.
Copper – he noticed the same in 200 as I posted here. Not likely.
Wicked – sufficient-looking reasoning in 159. May or may not in itself, but because that wall contained plenty of other reads, less likely.
Dodgy – He pointed out that Mastin–Eyestott–Davesaz interaction thing in 147 and it seems that he's working with that. I'm unsure whether he's right about that but it seems to have come from a town mindset. Plus, he unvoted later. Very unlikely.
Tean – even if Davesaz's readlist was bad, there were more than 4 names there and he didn't mention that it was full of nulls (182). His reasoning for his vote in 189 is weak. He's the most likely scum on that wagon, I think. Also, he had been talking about BBT before. Sure, he's active elsewhere (I've checked it). Plus, I had a game with BBT before and his Day1 was entirely different. But, I also know that I was trying to drop dislikes and scumreads on the inactive players when I was scum in another game. What if he's (they're?) doing the same?
Eyestott – I don't understand why he jumped on the wagon in 211. May be scum, but he's not the most possible one.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TeanSamargo

[davesaz]

@vettrock:

You've commented on the "looking town" conversation, but I don't see any comment on the wagon. Why so quiet?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

Fuck.

[killapenwin]

Analysis so far:

1) killapenwin - myself (town)

2) BlueBloodedToffee - (null) has nothing on his ISO definitely need to see him posting more

3) eyestott - (null leaning scum) I don't feel I can be impartial given that we have already butted heads a little but I think his actions rather than his posts have been poor such as jumping on bandwagons as placeholder votes, which at such an early stage I don't think is very good.

4) Heartless -(Null) another player who is just skating by with nothing in their ISO and not really contributing much.

5) davesaz - (null leaning town) His posts have been pretty well reasoned, I'm not sharing the same vibes Mastin's has on him as scum especially looking at his (ISO) I can't see anything telling. He is being perceptive and trying to pick up flaws in peoples posts and find myself agreeing with most of what he says. I'm not sure what to think of him claiming so early but it is possible that he began feeling the pressure on himself.

6) copper223 - (probable town) He is being inquisitive, breaking down posts, interrogating inconsistences and pushing for answers and not just following a crowd.

7) vettrock - (null) nothing substantial really sticks out when looking his ISO there is content but nothing to suggest their alignment.

8) Aneninen- (probable town) a bit slow to start but the few posts he has are good.

9) dodgy56 - (probable town) is fishing for information, creating reads and asking plenty of good questions and interacting well.

10) Wickedestjr (probable town) - I don't share his views on davesaz but he is definitely trying to push for information, sharing views and seeking to move the game forward. They are coming from a town mentality.

11) beastcharizard- (null) Not really much content to go on, they haven't given much insight on their thoughts of other players except maybe wicked, who I think is town.

12) Tean Samargo - (scum) I really do not like their general tone and attitude towards me, I find it arrogant and dismissive, even their latest post can be taken that way:

There's nothing to go by in your reads list. All of your reads are null, mixed and you seem unsure of yourself. It seems like it's all rushed and poorly made. Odd, seeing that you were one of the more active players in the forum at the moment. What were you doing all this time? Surely you must have a more solid read by now?

I feel like this list is pretty much forced, and you're trying to feign scum hunting.
I think this would be a much more solid shelf for my vote.

Vote: davesaz

My case on Penguin is stated in my previous post against him. Seeing that the vote so far has only managed to provoke him, I feel like a coherent discussion will not be possible at this moment.
Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GnLDJAgrws

notice in the last paragraph where he chooses to say "a coherent discussion" instead of just "a discussion" as though my previous posts so far have just been jibberish and not worth reading? That is on top of the overall message of that sentence that he has already decided he is not interested in discussing things with me.

13) mastin2 (null leaning town)- Having played my last game with Mastin, holding off on her vote and holding her cards close to her chest is consistent with her form of play. But I would take her judgement with a pinch of salt rather than trust it outright. I suspect she has a couple of strong town reads and maybe 1 or 2 gut feelings on scum and is just biding her time to see if they become stronger or weaker.

[TellTaleHeart]

We'll both be LA for the next week due to travelling.

[dodgy56]

Prodge.

Fuck.

so you are absent from the thread for 48 hours and when you come back this is your only contribution? a meaningless piece of drivel?

like seriously?

if you are town lift you game because at the moment you arent helping anyone. all you are doing is making it easier for scum to lurk.