Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[Kthxbye]

Let's just get this out of the way before we waste any time on trying to figure kthx out, shall we.

I'm The Conqueror Worm. I am of the Morbid (as if I'd claim anything else). I enable full card flips. Upon my death, only character's and their alignment will be flipped. Not much better than VT and if ya'll think keeping town PR's from scum is worth it, lynch me.

Just know, copper is scum and you'll all feel silly the longer you wait to lynch him.

P.edit: hey TS, did you miss the part where I give less than no shits on D1...like ever?

[TierShift]

Townlist
Policy
Boo
Ftl
Copper
Lynx

Scum from strong to weak:
Kthx- pls lynch
Coa- their pushes are weak and contrary to my thought process and I cannot see where they come from. Usually I can with TTH.
Brantz- a little underexplained. I mostly agree with ghato. Very close to null.

Others:
Ghato- would be on townlist if he weren't scmreading me for just not contributing too much. Really weird. Can you elaborate on your scumread on me?
Krystal bald- although I like his posts, he isn't doing too much pro-town stuff, by virtue of his PR. If it's real and he's trying his best, or if he's faking it and playing tryhard townie who actually doesn't help.
Catastrophe- wanna talk to tool.
Medea- pls post

I do not endorse a lynx lynch unless he claims. And then it'd better be worth 2 townies (himself+NK).
I want kthx lynched. Why is he not gettng lynched?

Ghato, opinion on kthx?

P-edit: still think kthx is scum, although the claim would be a deterrent to lynching him.

Also, I've played only once before with you and thought you were scum day 1 but basically shut up about it because of your sig. Let me revisit the game.

[copper223]

I think the claim from Kthxbye is genuine and Lynx should consider adding him to his wagon, will censor the rest

[TierShift]

After rereading austin powers for a bit and seeing kthx behave there, I feel pretty good in letting him live for a day. Plus his clam ofc.

Let's lynch cao!
Do it!

[Bookitty]

1. I do not endorse a lynx lynch unless he claims. And then it'd better be worth 2 townies (himself+NK).

2. Also, I've played only once before with you and thought you were scum day 1 but basically shut up about it because of your sig. Let me revisit the game.

1. Since I know who *I* would NK if I were scum, I second this part A LOT.

2. In Epic Mafia Time I wanted Kthxbye dead day one even if I had to stomp him myself because I thought he was aggressively scummy. He OMGUSed me and THAT of course confirmed my obvscum read on him. It turns out he was town. This doesn't feel like that game, but I would prefer to wait a day on this. I do think his claimed power is useful and pro-town, if not incredibly useful and obviously pro-town.

If Ghato is town (something I think) then I think it's okay to go ahead and leave Lynx alive and try for a scum lynch. If Lynx is the NK, then Ghato can neighbourize him and then we have the benefit of knowing what Lynx knows. If he's not the NK, yay, we saved a townie for another day. I disagree with Copper's plan of both neighbourising and lynching Lynx. That seems like the worst of both worlds to me.

Explain how I'm wrong if you think I am, please.

[Bookitty]

Let's lynch cao!
Do it!

I support this product and/or service. Note that my read may be coloured by OMGUS, though.

[TierShift]

Lynx has a power post-lynch, not post-NK. I see little value in neighbourising him, because I for one don't believe he is that much of a boon to town, seeing his complete lack of input atm.

[TierShift]

I hope you did not miss the thng I said about my role pm.

[copper223]

Lynx has a power post-lynch, not post-NK. I see little value in neighbourising him, because I for one don't believe he is that much of a boon to town, seeing his complete lack of input atm.

Since you see very little this is more of a diss on your play than his.

[TierShift]

I'm not trying to diss.
But I did fail at reading!
So sorry, kitty. Plan is good.

[Bookitty]

I hope you did not miss the thng I said about my role pm.

I didn't. I get the impression your role PM, however, was more clear than mine.

I have questions outstanding for Lynx and I'm hoping he'll answer them soon. We have time before deadline and I would like greater clarity on the positives and negatives of:

1. Lynching Lynx today.
2. Not lynching Lynx today and, if he's nightkilled, asking Ghato very nicely to neighbourise him.

I still see no world in which we would both lynch Lynx and ask Ghato to neighbourise him, because of this:

Lynx didn't know Ghato could do that when he asked to be lynched. Lynx said himself (I'm paraphrasing because I am not looking it up) that Ghato could do it if he wanted to talk to Lynx, but didn't seem enthusiastic. So I don't think that talking after death through a neighbour is necessary for it to work. Thus it would make more sense to ME to use it the second way Ghato suggested. That's who I would want to talk to.

I'll repeat the question (not verbatim):

@Lynx: If you are NKed, would being neighbourised allow you to still use your power? Do you still want to be lynched today given Ghato's offer to you?

[TierShift]

Prob is that ghato can be blocked of blocker exists.

Boo, can you or can you not facilitate the thing happening?

[copper223]

@Boo
I'm sure it would still naturally work without it but when you are basing your lynch on a play that is going to most likely kill 2 townies come tomorrow, in an unkown setup, redundancy or even the appearance of redundancy is a good thing, as the promotor of the play having Lynx's imputs on the results may also come in handy.

[Bookitty]

@Tiershift: I don't think I can. It's all very vague; I basically paraphrased my role PM. It's an ability that may be triggered by an undefined event. I don't know what it is, just that it doesn't matter if I'm alive or dead when that event happens. Without knowing what the event is, I can't say if I could make it happen or not.

On the Ghato thing: Well, crap. No, I hadn't thought about that.

@Copper: I don't know. I want Lynx to clarify because I can see these scenarios:

1. We lynch Lynx as he wishes. He uses his power, whatever it is. ??? Profit. Then Ghato uses his power on Lynx and Lynx relays messages or doesn't, but we have him for as long as we have Ghato but with no vote and no special insights into the game. (Scum isn't going to target him once he's dead. I'm pretty certain of this.) Downside here is that we lose two townies guaranteed.

2. We lynch {Scum} and then Lynx is NKed to prevent him using his power. This is good because we lynched scum, but we lost Lynx's power without even knowing what it was beforehand. I don't see how neighbourising him helps in this case.

3. We lynch {Scum} and Lynx is left alive. So we lynch him tomorrow. Well, that's just putting it off a day and we lost some other townie in the meantime. If we lynch scum I'm not going to feel awful though.

4. We lynch {Town that isn't Lynx} and Lynx is nightkilled. We lose LynxPower, we lose two townies.

5. We lynch {Town that isn't Lynx} and one of our other PRs is killed. We still need to lynch Lynx at some point soon to unleash his awesome power, but we are down two townies and don't have that power yet.

If neighbourising doesn't remove the need to lynch Lynx, then let's lynch him and let him use his power now. That's my view after thinking this out. Please, ANYONE, point out where I'm wrong above. I put numbers in so it would be easy to address my mistakes if there are any.

[Catastrophe]

What if the neighbouriser lies to us about what Lynx is saying because they're scum?

[Bookitty]

Okay. This is convoluted logic, so please bear with me.

If Ghato is scum, offering to neighbourise Lynx isn't a win for scum. We'll know Lynx's power when he's lynched/NKed unless Kthxbye is the NK. I still hold that scum won't target Lynx after he's dead (nor would town, unless it was Ghato-neighbour) and so the insights we could get based on the role given in the thread wouldn't be compelling. They'd be the same as if I died and you were passing along my insights: Oh, wow, Bookitty thinks we oughta lynch Cat. Well, that's nice. -ignore- *Note: Example for illustration purposes only. I do NOT think we oughta lynch Cat.

So I don't see Ghato-scum making that offer. It gains nothing for scum except the chance to pass along faked input from Lynx who has no more influence than I do. Why bother? Ghato then went on to say who he WOULD neighbourise by preference; I agreed with that assessment and, if Ghato were scum-neighbouriser I would expect him to go that way in the first place.

[copper223]

@Boo
I agree with the conclusion.

@Cat
That's a problem inherent with Ghato's role and not with Lynx's, Ghato could only lie about Lynx's observations on the results, not on the actual results themselves as Lynx can also independently confirm those from what he claims, and Ghato could also lie about what Policy or anyone else tells them so the alignment of Ghato is irrelevant when making suggestions on who to neighborize.

I think Boo also makes a good case for why Ghato is unlikely to be scum here, I may add that Ghato supporting Lynx the way he is doing doesn't make sense as scum.

[Bookitty]

I'm out for tonight, but I will be back bright and early!

Well, early, anyway. :p

[TierShift]

Boo, do you know if the event can be activated by a player's pr or something?

On the neighbourising vs lynching thing, I need to kbow what the power is. I need to kbow exactly how strong it is, and if it worth sacrificing 2 townies JUST IN CASE scum have an RB.

[Medea the Alien]

ok I lied. NOW I am catching up.

[Medea the Alien]

Medea the Alien: down here as essentially a penalty for being cabd

Implying you'd have me at town otherwise for a single post?

[Medea the Alien]

Townreads on copper, ghato, tier. The start thing too. Not nearly as townreading of bookitty as I expected to be? More reads once I've had a deeper re-read, penguin's promised me to read and give her input as well.

The amount of claiming here is giving me hives because knowing ffery there's definitely ways to punish claimed abilities.

[Catastrophe]

he doesn't seem like the type to fake that sort of shit (assuming toolenduso?).

Yes, I'm toolenduso.

I still have the utmost desire not to engage you,

"Don't let your feelings get in the way of productive play." -- FDR

but can you please explain the coa and medea reads further? The problem I have with them is that they're pretty much non-commital reads.

I'd prefer tool to answer this, if possible.

Well you're kind of asking me to explain TSO's reads, since you're referencing the readslist he posted. I can't do that.

I can tell you the way that I feel about Cask at least. Medea doesn't have enough for me to form a read yet.

For CoA, here's what I think (this doesn't take into account some of the slot's more recent posts):

-#89 looks like sthar trying to figure out whether the post restriction is real or not to me, which strikes me as town because why would scum care? They would already know what Krystal's alignment was. Not that a PR tells you a person's alignment

necessarily

, but that seems to be how sthar is approaching the situation. Playing devil's advocate, it could easily come from scum who are good at letting go of their mission and playing like they're town who don't know anything. But I would need to know sthar's meta to get a feel for whether that was more likely than the town explanation and I don't know enough about sthar to say which I think is more likely.
-Policy had a good point about the last thing Cask writes in #97, which is questioning how copper knows that Krystal's PR is real -- as scum, copper wouldn't know. This could come from scum looking for any reason to scumread copper. Town explanation would be either that Cask was just needling copper or that Cask just didn't fully think through what they were saying before they posted. I tend to lean scum on this one.
-The amount of attention Cask pays to copper is weird (it's like, almost every post in their ISO) and I'm actually wondering whether it could be a designed distancing tactic between partners. This point's only important if one flips scum, and if that happens we'll have more to analyze from whichever slot's still standing.

I plan on doing more work on this game tomorrow.

--tool

[TierShift]

Thanks tool. I assume that you do not feel the same about medea as tso does?

My desire not to engage TSO stems not from a negative feeling about that; simply because it would not be productive. I'd like you to comment on the post TSO was getting screamy about (or at least, that's how I took it).

[Catastrophe]

Couple of things I forgot to address:

To expound,

I don't want to lynch Lynx

because it's the most solid town read. On the other hand, Lynx will prolly be killed at night due to his posting about his being lynched ability being strong. If I was scum and Lynx isn't lynched today, I'd take him out just in case, even if he is over exaggerating/estimating his lynched ability. The town in me though really wants to keep a very solid town read alive. So yeah, it's pretty much in Lynx's hands at this point. I'll prolly just follow whatever he thinks is best in this situation seeing as he knows his powers and the rest of us can only guess at this point. He's painted a big bulls eye on his chest for scum to NK and

if he thinks it's best for him to be lynched today, then we should trust it's best.

This post looks so much like you trying to look hesitant to lynch town. You start off opposed to lynching lynx and then slowly convince yourself that it's the best play while putting the responsibility for it in lynx's hands.

I'm The Conqueror Worm. I am of the Morbid (as if I'd claim anything else). I enable full card flips. Upon my death, only character's and their alignment will be flipped. Not much better than VT and if ya'll think keeping town PR's from scum is worth it, lynch me.

Forgive me if I'm misreading your claim, but are you saying that after you die we get to know the flavor, alignment and role of the people who have died? Because we, uh, generally get that information in all mafia games.

Also, to make this clear, I've pretty much stopped scumreading copper. I wrote my read on Cask in that last post a while ago when I thought copper looked really bad.

--tool