Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[eyestott]

it depends on the confidence of your read. if you strongly believe he is scum then you should be voting him. if not then you shouldnt. but its your later vote that is making this hard for me to find sincere

so far i dont see how anyone can have a

strong read

on anyone either way. If anyone has a strong town or scum read, please explain why. FMPOV having weak reads at this point is fine. id rather people have weak reads that are logical and that i can follow than supposed strong reads that havent been explained.

Please just give a yes or no. I am not sure that Dave is scum. He is, however, my top scumread. However, I have no wish for the day to end too quickly.

[dodgy56]

there can actually be a place for voting yourself as town when it is imperative that you die that day in order to prove a point and lead the remaining town in the right direction. as scum it can never serve a purpose. i wasnt saying you would bus him. i was saying that could be a reason why you didnt vote him to l-1 but were prepared to vote him to l-2.


ok i dont intend to vote him as i think he is probably town at this point. The fact that there hasnt been counterlynch momentum tends to agree with this.

[dodgy56]

it depends on the confidence of your read. if you strongly believe he is scum then you should be voting him. if not then you shouldnt. but its your later vote that is making this hard for me to find sincere

so far i dont see how anyone can have a

strong read

on anyone either way. If anyone has a strong town or scum read, please explain why. FMPOV having weak reads at this point is fine. id rather people have weak reads that are logical and that i can follow than supposed strong reads that havent been explained.

Please just give a yes or no. I am not sure that Dave is scum. He is, however, my top scumread. However, I have no wish for the day to end too quickly.

i cant give a yes or no answer.. it comes down to what you talked about with the person hammering. if you feel strongly enough that someone is scum you vote them in that position, if you dont feel that strongly then you dont vote them. but i find it hard to believe that you werent that confident given you then vote him as soon as he is below L-2. Do you understand why that seems off?

[eyestott]

What possible point could dave be trying to make? In my opinion, that only applies later in the game, and considering tht if he's, town, he's a VT, I don't see why he would have a good reason to self vote, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't.
There's a huge difference here between putting someone at L-2 and L-1 and actually hammering them.
Each requires a larger amount of confidence than the previous one.
I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I wasn't confident enough in him to put him at L-1 but I was confident enough to place him at L-2, where even if he did self vote, another player would need to vote too.
That's the reason I was prepared to put him at l-2 but not l-1.
I mean, placing the first vote on someone is completely different to placing the hammer, yeah?
Th

[BlueBloodedToffee]

203 - Dodgy, this looks like you're posturing to jump off the Dave wagon if it loses momentum. Scummy enough for you to keep voting him, enough doubt in the read for you to jump off if you need to.

204 - Copper, if you disliked Tean's vote the most, why did you not vote for them? Also, in 158 you say Tean vs Killa is 'Town vs town', that's changed now?

205 - Dodgy, it looks like you're testing the waters for a Tean wagon here. Interested to see where this goes.

211/213 - Umm, eyestott, when and why did Dave become your top scum-read? This read seems to have come from nowhere.

215 - Dave, what was you expecting me to do? Also, why me specifically?

219 - Anen, this is interesting. I'm trying to decide if your read on Tean is opportunistic or genuine. You now have Tean as your top scum-read and vote them,

right after

both dodgy and Copper express some disliking of that slot. This feels scummy.

This game is getting exciting.

I feel very confident there is at least one scum in Copper/Dodgy/Anen. Copper and Dodgy are not scum together, Anen could be scum with either of them.

[eyestott]

Blue, 208 and 209.

[dodgy56]

203 - Dodgy, this looks like you're posturing to jump off the Dave wagon if it loses momentum. Scummy enough for you to keep voting him, enough doubt in the read for you to jump off if you need to.

204 - Copper, if you disliked Tean's vote the most, why did you not vote for them? Also, in 158 you say Tean vs Killa is 'Town vs town', that's changed now?

205 - Dodgy, it looks like you're testing the waters for a Tean wagon here. Interested to see where this goes.

211/213 - Umm, eyestott, when and why did Dave become your top scum-read? This read seems to have come from nowhere.

215 - Dave, what was you expecting me to do? Also, why me specifically?

219 - Anen, this is interesting. I'm trying to decide if your read on Tean is opportunistic or genuine. You now have Tean as your top scum-read and vote them,

right after

both dodgy and Copper express some disliking of that slot. This feels scummy.

This game is getting exciting.

I feel very confident there is at least one scum in Copper/Dodgy/Anen. Copper and Dodgy are not scum together, Anen could be scum with either of them.

that was the first time i started to feel some doubt about the case i had made against dave. so i decided to look at who was on that lynch (and which of them were also on the killa lynch) and see which votes seemed genuine and which seemed like pure bandwagon votes'

i had missed that copper had said killa vs tean was town vs town. i need to review their interaction

im still null on anen.. it felt genuine at the time fmpov

[BlueBloodedToffee]

259 - Dave, it looks like you're trying to deflect onto Tean here. The difference is, Vettrock didn't try to provide a reads list that was filled with fluff/null reads. You did. This makes you look like you're trying to be town; it looks forced. Whereas Vettrock's position appears much more natural.

261 - I actually like this.

273 - Holy shit. I would lynch this. Right now.

[eyestott]

Why would you lynch over 273? What am I missing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

283 - Mastin, you have to be joking. How are you town-reading BC?

285 - Weird soft-defence of Heartless. Why might Heartless be scum Copper?

290 - BC, you're scum because you have done absolutely nothing except post fluff.

298 - Even if you were still making your mind up I would expect that information to be included in your reads-list.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

307 - Dodgy, if you were trying to gauge a read on Mastin then you didn't need to include the 'I could vote Dave right now' comment.

308 - All of Tean's posts are so town it hurts. In particular, 93, 97, 182, 189 & 231

My vote on you was because I had misread your preceding post. However, I still find you to be scummy for the other reasons stated during my vatch-up.

310 - I find it astonishing that you can post on this site whilst sleeping. That is a skill.

330 - eyestott, you're voting Dave because he said he would self-vote? That's your only reasoning?

[dodgy56]

307 - Dodgy, if you were trying to gauge a read on Mastin then you didn't need to include the 'I could vote Dave right now' comment.

308 - All of Tean's posts are so town it hurts. In particular, 93, 97, 182, 189 & 231

My vote on you was because I had misread your preceding post. However, I still find you to be scummy for the other reasons stated during my vatch-up.

310 - I find it astonishing that you can post on this site whilst sleeping. That is a skill.

330 - eyestott, you're voting Dave because he said he would self-vote? That's your only reasoning?

ok fair enough i can see why you are saying my other posts are scummy. i was so confused about your vote at the time though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Some questions that people missed/ignored/avoided...

93 - Tean, this post gives me good town feelings. I like your logic and thought process (even though I disagree with the conclusion that Killa is scum because of it.)

Can you elaborate on why Killa being defensive equals scum?

166 - @dodgy, I knew you were posturing to get on the Dave wagon in 122. Fucking knew it.

Reasons for vote?

177 - This is THE worst reads-list I have ever seen. You might as well have posted 'I got no reads, everyone is null'.

Why did you choose those people to present reads on? I use 'reads' very, very loosely as well.

183 - Dave, this is simply not true. You failed to mention eyestott, Killa, Tean or beast and I would argue that they had all contributed more than Anen who you decided to include in your reads-list.

198 - Dave, here you lump Heartless, Anen, BC and myself into a group with the label 'nothing substantial.' If that's the case, why was Anen the only plyer you chose to include in your previous reads-list?

Your reads feel forced and disingenuous. There is no consistency and it's almost like you're avoiding providing reads on the more active players.

Unless something fairly substantial happens over the next few pages, this is where my vote is going.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

ok fair enough i can see why you are saying my other posts are scummy. i was so confused about your vote at the time though

What in particular do you agree with regarding your posts being scummy?

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also Dodgy, what's your read on Tean?

[copper223]

@BBT
Why does disliking Tean's vote imply I should vote for him?

Heartless may be scum because of the associative Dave dropped on them at the start of the game, if he is scum himself. As for the readlist, it would be a fair point if I actually gave one this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT
Why does disliking Tean's vote imply I should vote for him?

Heartless may be scum because of the associative Dave dropped on them at the start of the game, if he is scum himself. As for the readlist, it would be a fair point if I actually gave one this game.

Given you had dropped your scum-read on Dave, and found Tean's vote to be most suspicious, then logic dictates that Tean becomes your top scum-read, no?

Yeah, you can't base a read solely on associatives before any relevant flips/information have happened/is available.

You kind of gave a reads-list in 158. If it wasn't a reads-list, what was it?

[copper223]

@BBT
I found Tean's vote opportunistic because he switched from Killa to Dave without much interaction with the wagon beforehand and only after more than one player expressed his like of Killa, so he went from possibly town to leaning scum, I deemed voting him before he could give his opinion on the matter and without really knowing if my read on Dave was correct to be premature.

It was the same thing you did in a smaller timeframe, mt catch-up and impressions.

@All
I am reviewing the latest pages and it looks like Dodgy is trying to bury Eyestott, because no matter the answer (and often I actually agree with Dodgy's pov but that's not the point) he argues the opposite.

[copper223]

Also due to my activity on the forum I'm in a position to know that heartless's lack of activity is not alignment indicative, so that's why I mentioned it.

[eyestott]

@BBT
I found Tean's vote opportunistic because he switched from Killa to Dave without much interaction with the wagon beforehand and only after more than one player expressed his like of Killa, so he went from possibly town to leaning scum, I deemed voting him before he could give his opinion on the matter and without really knowing if my read on Dave was correct to be premature.

It was the same thing you did in a smaller timeframe, mt catch-up and impressions.

@All
I am reviewing the latest pages and it looks like Dodgy is trying to bury Eyestott, because no matter the answer (and often I actually agree with Dodgy's pov but that's not the point) he argues the opposite.

This is something I've just noticed too. Especially with the refusal to give a straight answer to my "if I had put dave at L-1, would that have been better?" question. It seems as if I'm damned if I do, damned if I dont.

[killapenwin]

Tean's latest:

@Killapenwin

@eyestott it is because your votes so far have just followed Tean's, which looks a bit sheepish. Also, Tean has only voted on players that have been voted on already so either him or you (maybe both) are trying to create bandwagons or give them some momentum in my opinion.

As Aneninen said, it is odd that Tean would call you out for sheeping when he himself is being a catalyst for bandwagons.

To start with, it'd be nice if you wouldn't lie when trying to cast suspicion on me. I was the first person who had a non-rvs vote on you when the game started and you should know that. I don't appreciate you lying to try to make me sound worse.

On top of that, I don't like how you're ignoring my posts. You seem to have outright missed #231, and I'd like you to try answering my questions, not just blindly calling me scum because I'm rude.

@Wickedestjr

@eyestott
I find your vote on dav as rather opportunistic. I feel a little bit uncomfortable with my vote along side yours honestly. Right now it feels as if you are sheeping the biggest bandwagon.

Now this is a weird thing for

you

to say! Especially considering you cast the vote for davesaz immediately preceding eyestott’s vote (so you weren’t much faster to hop aboard). It also seems convenient how you start to cast doubt on the wagon, ‘coincidentally’, just after it starts to lose momentum.

Could you show me where I started to cast doubt on a wagon? I'm not seeing it. Also, I didn't dislike eyestott's vote for jumping on the wagon, it was for jumping on it with shitty reasoning. He finds dav his top scumread but he doesn't vote until dav isn't at L-2 because he's scared of dav getting hammered? If he thinks dav is scum why the fuck would he be so concerned about him getting lynched?

I believe you are mistaken, you were in fact the second person to vote for me so don't call me a liar on that or making it up.

VOTE: Killapen

@Wicked
BBT jumping on things is more likely to be town and Mastin starting with a pseudo "confirm post analysis" on what I thought were syncs on confirmation time and words used (I missed the ready reference in the PM tbf.) is consistent with my mental image of her as a town player.

A haiku with love:

I don't like penguins.
Go back to Antarctica.

Vote: killapenwin

You want me to comment on all your posts then? Just have your iso open in another tab.

#34 //you saying ready
#55 // a haiku vote on me, no reason given
#58 // claiming the vote is now real but no reasons given beyond a generic 'not liking my posts'
#59 // nothing
#93 // already commented on this crude attempt to make me look insignificant, though I didn't respond to it in it's entirety so for the final paragraphs: no I can't vote everyone who does a RVS vote. I thought that would be obvious so I skated over that nonsensical argument. You may notice how copper put a vote on me and yet I didn't call him scum?
#97 // a poke at Vettrock to scumhunt, mute- could just be filler
#163 // a poke at BBT being inactive, though given how hard BBT is buddying you right now this could have just been a pre-emptive post to distance yourself from him
#174 // more trying to distance yourself from him even though he still hasn't said anything
#182 // comment on Dave's read list being mostly null, glaringly obvious to everyone so not much value in it.
#189 // The first half-reasoned vote you do and it is on Dave, I could have liked this post except you had to sully it by saying you can't have a coherent discussion with me.
#191 // a vote count
#231 // criticises Dave for no strong reads though really you haven't given much away yourself, just tunnelling me and a few comments on 3 others players some of whom have just been inactive. You make a point against Eyestott for sheeping votes and yet, he has been following your votes??
Then you try to justify your name calling by citing some obscure youtube video, like it was just a joke and it was all ok.
Well guess what? No. If you think it is bad for someone to have a vote on you because they didn't get your joke then that would make you a hypocrite because that is exactly why you made your 'RVS' vote a real one with me.

Then criticism of my 'then' latest post which I will respond to:
Your interaction with me has been poor, I know I am town so for you to be voting me on the back of what I have only seen as very weak reasoning I do find scummy. Many others also happen to find Eyestott's actions to be questionable, too (including yourself). You obviously didn't notice Copper put a vote on me but in my read of him I didn't call him scummy so I am not just attacking those voting for me. One or both of you tried a bandwagon me so I would be happy to put a vote on either of you since there is a fair chance one of you will come out scum.
I think you really are overselling your contribution to town and the above is evidence of that.

#233 // asks copper about playing on other sites?
#235 // revokes request.
#305 // Already evidenced the part about me not lying at the top of this post, #231 is answered above and here is my reason for not answering it: I was getting fed up of having to tackle your distracting posts and didn't really want to do one of these long time consuming posts so that I might actually have time to get some reads on some other people. But since you are kicking up a fuss for me not responding, here it is.

BBT is seems to be buddying you hard, possible scum team?

[killapenwin]

@tean what do you think of mastin's holding her reads 'close to her chest'?

(since your vote on dave is for not giving his reads away) I think he picked you up on that but you never responded, make sure you do.

[beastcharizard]

I am reviewing the latest pages and it looks like Dodgy is trying to bury Eyestott, because no matter the answer (and often I actually agree with Dodgy's pov but that's not the point) he argues the opposite.

What do you mean trying to bury them? Your word choice is confusing to me.

[eyestott]

I am reviewing the latest pages and it looks like Dodgy is trying to bury Eyestott, because no matter the answer (and often I actually agree with Dodgy's pov but that's not the point) he argues the opposite.

What do you mean trying to bury them? Your word choice is confusing to me.

Likely means condemn, I'd say.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT
I found Tean's vote opportunistic because he switched from Killa to Dave without much interaction with the wagon beforehand and only after more than one player expressed his like of Killa,

so he went from possibly town to leaning scum, I deemed voting him before he could give his opinion on the matter and without really knowing if my read on Dave was correct to be premature.

I find Tean's suspicion of Dave to be genuine and on point. Do you disagree with their reasoning for voting Dave?

Can you just reword the bold for me please. Want to make sure I fully understand what you're trying to say here.

What do you mean trying to bury them? Your word choice is confusing to me.

Any reads?