—Mini 1635— Curse of the Werewolves: Game Over

[FourTrouble]

—

Skip to Next Vote Count

—

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I disagree that his continued vote on me was justified but I'm too tired to get into that right now. I'm going to sleep and then rereading tomorrow.

[Shadowmod]

—VOTE COUNT—

farside22

(0/7) —

Pine

,

Andrius

,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

Southern Gothic

(1/7)

—

Nachomamma8

,

FourTrouble

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Gilgamesh King Of Heroes

Iecerint

(0/7) —

Flames682

,

All is Who

,

Pine

,

Albert B. Rampage

FourTrouble

(5/7)

—

farside22

,

Andrius, Southern Gothic,

PeregrineV

,

Iecerint, Pine, All is Who

Pine

(0/7) —

Iecerint

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Albert B. Rampage

Albert B. Rampage

(0/7) —

Pine

,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

,

All is Who

Titus

Konowa

(0/7) —

farside22

,

Southern Gothic

,

Albert B. Rampage

Andrius

(1/7)

—

FourTrouble

,

Iecerint

,

farside22,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

All is Who

(2/7)

—

Albert B. Rampage

,

FourTrouble, Nachomamma8

VictorDeAngelo

(1/7)

— Albert B. Rampage,

FourTrouble

Not Voting (3/13): VictorDeAngelo, Titus, PeregrineV

With 13 players still alive, 7 votes are required for a lynch, 7 to force no lynch.

Day 1 deadline is (expired on 2015-01-12 17:00:00)

---

—Announcement—

I also fixed the last couple of vote counts because I realized that I did not substitute some replacement names correctly. Everything should be right now. If this vote count does not show you voting whom you are supposed to be voting, please let me know so I can fix it.

[Nachomamma8]

@Mod

: I voted for All is Who in post #640.

---

Thanks. Fixed it.

[farside22]

Read through everything.
Nacho is town, so is four.

Nacho: please read my issues with Andy and tell me if that is normal for him.

I'm going to reread who and pine.
I won't be voting victor at this point be because it gives no info.

[All is Who]

Nacho, do me a giant favor and:

Make a towncase for 4.

Explain to me exactly what was 'bad' about my ABR case, and how that makes me scum.

Realize that the 4 wagon is 100% town.

Vote somewhere else.

@farside: please tell me something new.

—VOTE COUNT—

farside22

(0/7) —

Pine

,

Andrius

,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

Southern Gothic

(1/7)

—

Nachomamma8

,

FourTrouble

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Gilgamesh King Of Heroes

Iecerint

(0/7) —

Flames682

,

All is Who

,

Pine

,

Albert B. Rampage

FourTrouble

(5/7)

—

farside22

,

Andrius, Southern Gothic,

PeregrineV

,

Iecerint, Pine, All is Who

Pine

(0/7) —

Iecerint

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Albert B. Rampage

Albert B. Rampage

(0/7) —

Pine

,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

,

All is Who

Titus

Konowa

(0/7) —

farside22

,

Southern Gothic

,

Albert B. Rampage

Andrius

(1/7)

—

FourTrouble

,

Iecerint

,

farside22,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

All is Who

(2/7)

—

Albert B. Rampage

, FourTrouble, Nachomamma8

VictorDeAngelo

(1/7)

— Albert B. Rampage,

FourTrouble

Not Voting (3/13): VictorDeAngelo, Titus, PeregrineV

With 13 players still alive, 7 votes are required for a lynch, 7 to force no lynch.

Day 1 deadline is (expired on 2015-01-12 17:00:00)

---

—Announcement—

I also fixed the last couple of vote counts because I realized that I did not substitute some replacement names correctly. Everything should be right now. If this vote count does not show you voting whom you are supposed to be voting, please let me know so I can fix it.

There is exactly one wagon here that isn't terrible.

4 Trouble is scum, motivated solely by the thought "How do I survive this?"

I would be willing to vote anyone who has voted andy on the grounds that they voted andy.

[Pine]

Agreed

[Shadowmod]

—Announcement—

VictorDeAngelo

prodded.

[farside22]

Pine is probably scum.

[Pine]

Nope

Can prove it

Won't on D1

[VictorDeAngelo]

I won't be caught up by the days end after all. I no clue where the time has gone but I'll try to do another long post this evening. The good news is this my only game now, so I should have no trouble being on top of things before the end of night 1 at least.

Can someone link me to the FourTrouble case?
Is there anyone other than FourTrouble people want to lynch today?

[Iecerint]

We have a day left.

[farside22]

I won't be caught up by the days end after all. I no clue where the time has gone but I'll try to do another long post this evening. The good news is this my only game now, so I should have no trouble being on top of things before the end of night 1 at least.

Can someone link me to the FourTrouble case?
Is there anyone other than FourTrouble people want to lynch today?

Andy or some have all is who.

[Pine]

The people who don't want to lynch 4Trouble need to produce a viable alternate or shut the fuck up and fall in line

[FourTrouble]

Iece, how do you feel about Who?

[Pine]

Who is Town

Shut the fuck up

[Iecerint]

I've thought Who was town since the other head piped up.

Again, the pattern of asking X about Y over and over feels very canned and "this is my alt that can only ask X about Y over and over." Like it's almost policy lynch level for me. I find it like ideologically abhorrent. It makes it really hard for me to give you any kind of benefit of the doubt. The Gilgamesh slot similarly rubs me the wrong way, which is maybe why I don't get the "they are town" sense that some other players got from them.

[Andrius]

but Gilgamesh's self-importance feels town

I take that as null as Who's signing-posts deal. Player-side gimmicks, unless they are actually done to detriment town, are null. I think that Gilgamesh is not dealing with the other players charitably, but it seems as though he's roleplaying something (?) so that explains that. No different than Mr/Miss Subliminal.

I also liked a couple posts from Flames (his "lynch me if I don't post soon" post felt town), so that slot leans town.

How does that compare to replacing out if someone isn't caught up soon? Out of curiosity.

farside

Andy: explain one thing. Why are you voting four, whom no one else seems to be voting and not abr? I ask this as a very simple reason.

—VOTE COUNT—

FourTrouble

(4/7)

—

farside22

,

Andrius, Southern Gothic, PeregrineV, Iecerint

Albert B. Rampage

(2/7)

—

Pine

,

Nachomamma8,

Konowa

,

All is Who

*sic*

I am unable to ascertain how you arrived at 'no one' when there are, in fact, four people voting him as of the time you made that post.

Re: FourTrouble
I arrived on the wagon for him not being engaged, and was a good transition out of RVS-stage. Lack of prescence/posting/'figuring people out'.

Who described it better - he beetlejuice'd. I voted him and he appeared. He, by no means, seems squeamish town, so I thought his reaction was scum-motivated. So I kept my vote. And I saw no reason to change since then.

"Underwhelming presence" is not weak or bad reasoning. Certain players have prescence, like meta. Fate, would not be Fate if he were not yelling and, as Nacho said in his GKTAS, leading the town with a messiah-like complex. Does that make sense? It is similar to meta, but different in that it means the actual prescence in a game. Your previous votes were a vote, a refusal to explain said vote, two town-read, and a question. Besides this post, you have provided us two town-reads, and a scum-read with no explanation. That does not offer much prescence. I am glad to see you return, even if it there was more stick than carrot, so to speak.

Farside, from reading FourTrouble's 25 posts and ignoring the first one since he didn't explain how serious of a vote his RVS-stage vote was, he has (apparently) the following reads:
ABR Town
Iece Town
Andy Scum
SG Town
far Town

5/12 is not sufficient this far in. He also has one scumread. Granted, he did ask you why you thought Who was town, implying of course he is either in disagreement with you or merely curious.
But don't tell me that that is 'figuring people out'. At most, he is figuring one person out. Me. Who voted him right before he voted me.

Funny enough the guy that followed me onto four says I "should be looked at if/when four flips scum"

I did not mean to single you out, only remind myself that this connection existed and that it is a read that should be re-evaluated. Re-evaluating reads after deaths, especially due to connections, is by no means odd.

And then there's him abandoning his one major scum read (me) to go on ABR's Victor-lynching crusade.
Which is bad.
Yes, you can have more than one scumread. But if he's so convinced I'm scum, (remember, he only thought Victor was scum from process of elimination when he voted Victor) he should be trying to push for my lynch instead of slide off to another scumread that is much weaker.
I do not see town-motivation in abandoning one's biggest scumread when we're not AT deadline.
And at deadline is within a few hours.
Not few days.

Know your place, mongrel. The next time you address me in such a tone, I will take your head.

Its not related to your alignment, but I find this posting... persona to be uncharitable and unnecessarily egoistical. I will say no more on the matter though.

I have yet to completely sort out Peregrine, Victor and 4Trouble.

Far be it from me to advise you without prompting, but your significant assistance in ascertaining Victor and 4Trouble's alignments would be of most assistance to the 'common folk'.

Nacho's posting on page 25 solidifies his town-read and makes me want to stick around. <333

Unvote.

This is town.

Why, because they unvoted you?
That's faulty, at best.

I feel you'd get a much better idea of if your perceptions would be correct if you pushed the stronger scumreads and see if they towned in response: pushing Victor tells me that you have the entire game figured out and I know you're not that bad/that blinded by arrogance to make that type of a push.

But he didn't push his 'stronger scumreads' (me) and went for Victor. Why?
Town motivation for that is absent. Deadline is not sufficient as we still have plenty of time. And he has made no indication that his read on me has changed.
Scum motivation is clear - he would be going for an easier wagon and potentially taking some heat off of himself.

I pushed my strongest scumread first (before I solidified townreads on the above). So the only alternative to Victor is Who or Titus.

Has your read on me changed or have you just given up on seeing me lynched today?
I don't see a progression.

Basically, I feel like players who take a break (at least in my case I've felt this way) tend to become more passionate on their first game back, regardless of alignment, so that's not really giving me town in his case

I am not fond of repeating myself.
I did not take a break, I left without intending to return.

PLEASE READ:

This is me announcing my hiatus from MS since there is no longer a V/LA Thread.

I'm leaving, and I'm not sure when I'll be back.

Peace.

I am here to say goodbye, and to finally leave the site. I'm going now, and I don't expect I shall return. In fact I mean not to.

I planned on writing a semi-decent wall about the people and games that really made this site a wonderful experience for me, but you know who you are.

This site was somewhat of a home to me. You all made it what it was. And I thank you for every great moment here.



-Andrius

I went on extended hiatus in October, as I had realized MS has to take a backseat while I sorted out things 'IRL'.
I returned in March only to say GOODBYE. Not 'I'm taking a break'.
Please let me know if that does not sufficiently explain that I was not on a break.
I am tired of seeing you say 'HE TOOK A BREAK HE SHOULD BE RECHARGED'. I left. I came back. I'm probably leaving again after this.

I won't be caught up by the days end after all. I no clue where the time has gone but I'll try to do another long post this evening. The good news is this my only game now, so I should have no trouble being on top of things before the end of night 1 at least.

Can someone link me to the FourTrouble case?
Is there anyone other than FourTrouble people want to lynch today?

Replace out if you cannot catch up.
You said three days ago (from ISO, 1/8) that you would replace out if you did not catch up.
If you cannot give the game its proper due, let someone else try to give it its proper due.
Life/death/sickness is more important than the game. We should all respect a player leaving for good reasons.
If you are staying in this game, play.
If not, leave.

Being a lurker for 2 weeks is not acceptable. Please consider.

There is no long-winded wall of a FourTrouble case, but my reasoning is quoted higher up in this post.

[Andrius]

i think abr's strength as scum is playing to the crowd around him: he generally knows the right amount of aggressiveness people are gonna like, he knows the types of angles people are willing to push, etc. i see him playing to the crowd here whereas konowa just seems like he's playing emotionally

I found this in the re-read.

ABR brings up the Victor wagon four days before deadline (maybe three, I forget exactly). I've been trying to parse out his motivation for doing so.

Town Motivation: To Lynch or at least Pressure a Lurker? We were not at deadline yet, so it was not a deadline lynch suggestion.
Scum Motivation: Lynch a town-sided lurker at deadline, switching off major wagons? Potentially drawing attention from a buddy?

I just find it odd that people in this game are so willing to drop major scumreads to go pursue lynching a lurker with a good deal of time before deadline left to push their wagon of choice.

[Andrius]

Day 1 deadline is (expired on 2015-01-12 17:00:00)

Not quite yet time to panic.

[Iecerint]

It is probably time for a claim though.

Ideally, exactly one claim.

These players should vote for someone, or say that they are not going to do it:

Gilgamesh
farside
ABR
Victor/slot
Titus
PereV

[VictorDeAngelo]

I won't be caught up by the days end after all. I no clue where the time has gone but I'll try to do another long post this evening. The good news is this my only game now, so I should have no trouble being on top of things before the end of night 1 at least.

Can someone link me to the FourTrouble case?
Is there anyone other than FourTrouble people want to lynch today?

Andy or some have all is who.

Huh, none of those seemed scummy from the small part of the game I had read.

I won't be caught up by the days end after all. I no clue where the time has gone but I'll try to do another long post this evening. The good news is this my only game now, so I should have no trouble being on top of things before the end of night 1 at least.

Can someone link me to the FourTrouble case?
Is there anyone other than FourTrouble people want to lynch today?

Replace out if you cannot catch up.
You said three days ago (from ISO, 1/8) that you would replace out if you did not catch up.
If you cannot give the game its proper due, let someone else try to give it its proper due.
Life/death/sickness is more important than the game. We should all respect a player leaving for good reasons.
If you are staying in this game, play.
If not, leave.

Being a lurker for 2 weeks is not acceptable. Please consider.

There is no long-winded wall of a FourTrouble case, but my reasoning is quoted higher up in this post.

I literally said I am going to do everything I can to catch up. Given a number of players who have already been replaced and it's Day 1, I want to at least try to not require the mod to go back to the replacement queue again, sheesh.

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

my faulty memory interfered

But I thought you were perfect. My heart, she breaks.

I am a king, not a god. I make mistakes like any other; the key is to not allow your resolve to waver.

I fail to see how 123 shows an "emotional investment in scumhunting". Even when she delves into a meta-iso in 159 and makes a one-off comment about the iso. It shows she put in slight effort, finding a comment 50 posts down, but that's about it. Effort is not a towntell and I fail to see how that can't be faked.

Emotional investment is demonstrated in the exchange with Konowa starting at #123, not in #123 itself. Language and orly owl in #139 at least shows confidence and a pretty strong belief that she's in the right. #160 makes some pretty strong assertions and similar comments for page 7, #167 explains not only why she finds Konowa's quickly changing reasons are scummy (it looks like he's providing justification for a conclusion he's already reached), why she's railing as hard as she was against him (she feels he's uncomfortable with engaging people which is why he's sniping farside from the sidelines instead of actually engaging her). To me, emotional investment in a case is a developed thought process, passion enough to come through posting, and genuineness. To me, the exchange shows all of these: why do you disagree?

I don't think anything she has written is difficult to fake, or necessarily reflects your perception of 'emotional investment'. I am unsure of how to elaborate further.

The first point is TTH trying to attack Konowa from farside's POV. She's not trying to understand Konowa at all. The second point is TTH saying "you have biases and so you interpreted this post wrong". Which is not a strong point?

Why do you say this is TTH trying to attack Konowa from farside's POV? The bias point, which Konowa acknowledged and brought up himself (so it's not presumed, it's acknowledged), points out that a lot of Konowa's push is irrational because he was frustrated with farside's behavior in an earlier game. As far as understanding where Konowa is coming from, TTH does that when she figures out that Konowa's main problem was the closemindedness and frankness of farside's response to FT, TTH points out that she's not being a dick for no reason and there's a progression to the hostility.

If what you're trying to say is that you feel like TTH is coming down overly hard on Konowa as opposed to farside, then yeah, she's doing that, but she's writing a case on Konowa, so that's sort of to be expected.

I don't understand why I have to pick a side in the argument if the way they are both approaching it is town: just because I disagree with their push doesn't mean I think it's bad and it doesn't mean I think it makes them scum.

Given the previous comments from the slot, Southern Fried Chicken has been hard-defending farside. Thus, when the 'case' is made on Konowa, it appears as if they were farside defending themselves, the way it was written.

Far be it from me to advise you without prompting, but your significant assistance in ascertaining Victor and 4Trouble's alignments would be of most assistance to the 'common folk'.

Very well. I shall spend some portion of the evening assisting those who desperately need my assistance. Apparently.

@Iec: I

am

voting.

[Iecerint]

OK, thanks for indicating that you think that voting for Southern Gothic 24 hours before deadline is the best use of your vote!

[Gilgamesh King Of Heroes]

You're quite welcome.

[Iecerint]

Wow.