—Mini 1635— Curse of the Werewolves: Game Over

[FourTrouble]

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Skip to Next Vote Count

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What's the basis of your vote?

[Iecerint]

I think you are more likely to be scum than the other players who seem like they might get lynched in the next 24 hours, which basically means more likely than Andy or Who.

[Iecerint]

I would lynch Who before Andy I guess.

[Andrius]

Victor,

I did read, and see them. I wasn't saying you didn't have any, and I apologize for not being clear. In the interest of time it might be best not to WALLPOST and just get a list of reads out there. From what I've seen you dont Magna/Andy WALLQUOTEBLOC post, so that won't be a problem but I'd rather see a list of reads than links/quotes. I'm also attempting to change my posting pattern to be more clean. I did not mean to be rude, was just trying to get at the important thing (reads) in the limited time we have. Does that make sense?

I'm curious Andrius, do you have a no-lie policy?

A lie that everyone believes is still a lie.
No? I try not to, that is. Granted, there have been some great plays from lies/gambits, but Pine's I fought bitterly because it was shallow and poorly prepared. Does that make sense? Its all about delivery.

Is there a town benefit to your actions I'm missing?

Cutting out the bullcrap from a poorly-prepared gambit. I don't mean to be rude, Pine, but I imagine that a claim that outlandish would need to be better prepared to fly.
If I thought we could actually use it, I might have let it sit. Claim's too preposterous to believe, especially with ShadowDancer.

That'd be like someone claiming a Sane Cop in a hitogoroshi game. The man made a wall about how bad Cops are in games in MD back when I was here last.

Perhaps I've become a bit more of a stick in the mud since I left.

Predit:

Just because town are uninformed doesn't mean they should vote randomly; they can still analyze tone, behaviors, results, setup, etc. to vote with better than random chances.

Yes, but I don't see random votes here. I see people (like myself) voting who we think is most likely scum, even if that person is you (or me in your case).

There was actually a pretty long time-lag between it starting and Andy doing that FWIW. People seemed to totally avoid the thread. I felt like ABR and I were the only ones here. But it was around New Year's IIRC.

This is accurate. Pine, Iece, ABR, and I were posting. And all of our reactions are accounted for.

[FourTrouble]

I think you are more likely to be scum than the other players who seem like they might get lynched in the next 24 hours, which basically means more likely than Andy or Who.

Can you be more concrete? What specific behaviors make you think Andy/Who are likely town, or me likely scum?

[Shadowmod]

—VOTE COUNT—

farside22

(0/7) —

Pine

,

Andrius

,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

Southern Gothic

(1/7)

—

Nachomamma8

,

FourTrouble

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Gilgamesh King Of Heroes

Iecerint

(0/7) —

Flames682

,

All is Who

,

Pine

,

Albert B. Rampage

FourTrouble

(5/7)

—

farside22

,

Andrius, Southern Gothic,

PeregrineV

,

Iecerint, Pine, All is Who

Pine

(0/7) —

Iecerint

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Albert B. Rampage

Albert B. Rampage

(0/7) —

Pine

,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

,

All is Who

Titus

Konowa

(0/7) —

farside22

,

Southern Gothic

,

Albert B. Rampage

Andrius

(1/7)

—

FourTrouble

,

Iecerint

,

farside22,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

All is Who

(2/7)

—

Albert B. Rampage

,

FourTrouble, Nachomamma8

VictorDeAngelo

(1/7)

— Albert B. Rampage,

FourTrouble

Not Voting (3/13): VictorDeAngelo, Titus, PeregrineV

With 13 players still alive, 7 votes are required for a lynch, 7 to force no lynch.

Day 1 deadline is (expired on 2015-01-12 17:00:00)

[FourTrouble]

Also, if you had a choice to lynch anyone in the game (not just me, Who, or Andy), who would you lynch and why?

[FourTrouble]

Andrius, I'm no longer voting for you and haven't been for a while. Assuming I'm town, who would you lynch?

[Andrius]

If you are mod-confirmed town (THE ONLY INNOCENTS ARE BODIES), next on the ol' chopping block would be ABR.

I have been trying to find the case on Who in the meantime but have been unsuccessful.

[Iecerint]

I think you are more likely to be scum than the other players who seem like they might get lynched in the next 24 hours, which basically means more likely than Andy or Who.

Can you be more concrete? What specific behaviors make you think Andy/Who are likely town, or me likely scum?

I think Andy accounted for basically all but one of my concerns several pages ago, roughly around the time when I unvoted him. I also think that his activity right now even after he has become basically probably not the lynch is a towntell.

WhoHyda was a null read for me that became a townread when the other head (I think) stepped in and pushed a wagon on someone who wasn't low-hanging fruit. It was like right after ABR and I had been in a little fight or something IIRC. I don't even remember who he pushed -- I think it was kinda crap IIRC -- but I thought the push was at least non-lazy. I am relatively wary of Who because it might just be that the other head is more similar to me in how they approach the game or something.

In your case, I sometimes get ideas that you might be town in the previous few pages, but you also make some claims in the previous few pages that seem like they try to ignore context to convince me of something. Earlier when Who and others stepped in and involved themselves in things to affect the outside, my perception was that you were content to mostly be an observer, my inference being that maybe you were scum who either was happy not being the center of attention and/or wasn't sure how to join discussion without becoming the center of attention. Your counerpoint (meta defense, shifting burden of proof to me) I found obnoxious because, even or I guess especially if true, it's adopting an easy-to-play-but-scummy town meta on the grounds that it will simplify your scum game, which I think is a way that the site has changed in the previous year that I dislike, which made me less willing to do work on your behalf to prove you town to me, etc.

[Iecerint]

ABR being scum crossed my mind as I was typing that out. The main townie thing though would be shifting the wagon to Victor at the one point, which could also be consistent with FT being scum I think. Not totally clear off the top of my head on which wagon was most dominant at that time.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not going to vote for Who today. I'll switch my vote to Andrius if nothing happens from here until tomorrow to change my mind.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hey, ABR can you explain why your voting me?

[FourTrouble]

Your counerpoint (meta defense, shifting burden of proof to me) I found obnoxious because, even or I guess especially if true, it's adopting an easy-to-play-but-scummy town meta on the grounds that it will simplify your scum game, which I think is a way that the site has changed in the previous year that I dislike, which made me less willing to do work on your behalf to prove you town to me, etc.

I don't play this way to simplify my scum game - my scum game looks very different - and I don't think the way I play as town is scummy - it's just grounded in different principles. If you don't believe me, just look at my scum game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=25648 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=25716. From what I can tell, you'll probably think my scum game is more towny than my play here lol...

[FourTrouble]

Pretty much everyone's either against me or is gonna just let me get lynched, so I dunno what to do at this point. I'll join any wagon not my own that's viable.

[Iecerint]

Weren't you scum in my other game with you?

[FourTrouble]

No. Only games I remember you from I was town.

[Iecerint]

Lol. Did I mislynch you in every game?

[FourTrouble]

Maybe. I haven't been mislynched in a long time.

[Southern Gothic]

Gilgamesh is probably town. His reads have a lot of depth that's hard to fake as scum.

his reads have NO DEPTH and this is the problem I have had with you all game; you make comments like this that are simply not true while ignoring reads that actually have depth to them. you were a weakscumread and I voted you mostly to sheep andy WHO IS A STRONG TOWNREAD and then you went to vote any wagon that looked like might grow legs that wasn't your own, your reads do not come from a town mindset you cahnge them the second some1 else changes their mind to me it doesn't really look like you are trying to sort the game out. to me the only reason it looks like you are townreading gilga is cos they are townreading YOU which is blatantly survivalistic and points to scum motivation not town.

[FourTrouble]

lol Iece, look at your first post from this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25667

[Southern Gothic]

Just because town are uninformed doesn't mean they should vote randomly; they can still analyze tone, behaviors, results, setup, etc. to vote with better than random chances.

who exactly is voting you randomly? cos I am not.

[Pine]

Waiting for a claim from 4Trouble

His controlled-panic posting pattern looks like scum that is dead to rights, but might be able to weasel out at deadline if they work hard enough

The logic of mislynches are bad->Town should fight like hell for a no lynch on D1 doesn't wash for me. Town that weasels out of being mislynched will be the topic of debate D2 if they force a no lynch, and they'll effectively screw Town out of two shots instead of one

PE Shut up, Southern Gothic. Bad attacks on scum are worse than staying quiet. Gilgamesh's reads are fine, and contain depth. Undercutting 4Trouble for saying stuff that isn't false only helps him play the victim

[FourTrouble]

I wasn't arguing for a no-lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hey, ABR can you explain why your voting me?

Why aren't you voting?

Unvote, vote Andrius