Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[mastin2]

What is more important for me is this: how sure are you about your BBT read?

Annoyingly enough? Pretty damn sure.

[Aneninen]

Okay, I've seen it, Mastin.
Having no read of my own, I believe in your BBT read now.

[copper223]

@Dodgy

Yes. If dave flips scum, id probably think youre not his scumbuddy, so either SK or town.
If town, Id be more confident youre anti-town.

and people think im giving myself a way out??? you set yourself up here so that you can vote me whichever way dave flips...

also interesting that you dont include what happens if dave flips as SK. you clearly know there is a SK yet dont include it? why?

Dodgy, your point about voting for you either way I dig, but that question aboout Dave I dislike, why do you think forgetting about the SK is alignment indicative?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Okay, I've seen it, Mastin.
Having no read of my own, I believe in your BBT read now.

Lol.

Wtf is this shit.

[mastin2]

You're defending him because he's town and you're scum, right?

No shit I'm defending him because he's town but you are a fucking moron if you think.
Seriously think.
For so much as a MOMENT.
That I have any.
ANY.
Fucking.
Scum motive.
For fucking defending...of all fucking people...

beastcharizard

. BEAST. CHARIZARD. Defended.

Sticking my neck out, huge fucking risk as scum, for what? Cheap towncred that I can easily get by far more reliable, safe methods?

FUCK no.

[killapenwin]

Thanks for the tip Aneninen I will try use it in future posts that I am referencing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure, except everyone is clearly town-reading the shit out of you (except Heartless) so, no, not that much of a risk actually because EVERYONE is buying it.

[mastin2]

(Uh, no offense meant to ya, beast. I <3 you well enough as a player, but...yeah. Zero incentive to see you as a tool to be used as scum; there are far better targets I could select if scum.)

[mastin2]

Sure, except everyone is clearly town-reading the shit out of you (except Heartless) so, no, not that much of a risk actually because EVERYONE is buying it.

Hey, genius.
Serious question.

If the majority thinks it, the majority which happens to include a fair number of players who have played with me and/or know about me, and only you, you who don't have nearly as much exposure to me and deliberately choose to discard said experience anyway, say otherwise.

Which do you think is more likely?

That I pulled a contrived convoluted scheme involving me making moves that make zero logical sense in the hopes of getting towncred with it MAGICALLY somehow working on basically the entire playerlist without a doubt...

...Or that you're being a fucking moron and are wrong?

[copper223]

Okay, I've seen it, Mastin.
Having no read of my own, I believe in your BBT read now.

What happened to the previous read you had on him?

Are you trying to trick me here Aneninen, cause your game really looks like my previous experience with you down to quoting Copper and my post about Wicked wasn't that great, so you are either too much of a Copper fan or forcing the similarity.

[Aneninen]

I've never been able to establish a firm read on BBT, check my posts. Or I misremember something now. It's late here. On the other hand, why would I fake my gameplay just because of you? You know, I've met quite a couple of players before in different games.
(Or, it's also possible that I've been unable to interpret your post at all.)

[copper223]

Fair enough, it was half joke half reaction test.

[copper223]

Heartless (TTH side), what's your read on:

- Dave
- Aneninen
- Eyes vs Dodgy

[eyestott]

I see why Mollie gets uppity about newbie players...

My advice, since you both seem to be scumreading each other (and eyes., that was not an endorsement to turn around and behave the same):

- each of you make a case (being concise would be helpful) about why you think the other is scum.

at this point if you're both town this is an OMGUS based discussion, if one of you is scum the town player's arguments are getting drowned in the back and forth.

Okay, thats a good idea. Ill make my case once I am up to date.

Dodgy: On the surface, your play looks abit similar to Fable 6, but I've realised that there is nothing I can say that will change your views of me.

I'm leaning scum on you.
Wait no. I think you are scum. Id say youre my second scum read.

These two quotes are very concerning. So, in 374 you're trying to change dodgy's view of you. Why would you try to change dodgy's view of you if you believe he is scum (283). Like, if you town-read him, I could understand it, but trying to reason with someone you're scum-reading makes no sense at all because you should be thinking he is

purposely

trying to 'mislynch' you.
VOTE: eyestott

I'm not trying to change his views of me unless he is town. The fact that nothing ive said has changed his views at all is suspicious. If he's scum, he is purposefully trying to mislynch me, yes. But If hes town, then at least some of my atguments would be getting through to dodgy, and they arent.

Yes. If dave flips scum, id probably think youre not his scumbuddy, so either SK or town.
If town, Id be more confident youre anti-town.

Yeah, so you're determined to read dodgy!scum no matter what happens. Got it.

Can we lynch eyestott now?

That's misrepresenting me. If dave flips scum, he's likely town, but there is the small possibility he is SK, just like the is the small possibility of anyone being SK.

The reason for not putting dave at L-1 is fine, if true, but I’m not convinced that was eyestott’s real reason. eyestott said he decided to not put dave at L-1 ONLY because he had expressed self-voting intent, but eyestott expressed issue with dave in post 195 BEFORE dave expressed self vote intent in post 199. eyestott, if his self vote consideration was the only thing holding you back, why didn’t you vote him prior to its mention?

My one point in 195 was not grounds enough to vote dave.

case against Eyestott: initial posts which seemed like buddying to me, voted on both bandwagons early in the day (and i think both are likely town at this point, was one of the last voters on the dave bandwagon, Voted dave onyl once he wasnt at L-2 (yet was scum reading him at the time)

thats the basis for my scum read on Eyestott

Ive already established I do that as both alignments.
Ive already established that my KP vote was mainly RVS.
And this last point is not good.My wanting to not put dave at L-1 is perfectly valid, especially since scumdave could just hammer himself and prevent any more information for the day.

@Aneninen
Ok.

VOTE: Eyes

Wow. So you vote me in between dodgy's case on me and my case on him?

Although Tean is my strongest scumread, that's also a viable idea. (See my 219 about him and also the Dodgy/EyeStott conversation.) If Eyestott flips scum, Tean is most probably town, or at least, if both of them were scum, it would have been very dumb from them to jump on the Davesaz wagon with those posts. Also, if Eyestott is scum, that may clear Dodgy too, maybe.
Everyone, discuss these!

No where do you say what happens if i'm town.
Yeah, so you're determined to read eyestott!scum no matter what happens. Got it.

So, pretty much everyone is scumreading me. Dont i like, have the right to an attorney or something? Wicked, as pretty much the only person not thinking i'm super scummy, please help. I promise I'm town.

[eyestott]

dodgy case will come once I'm up to date in all my games. I made a decision to not post in my games yesterday, to clear my head.

[copper223]

@Eyes
If you're town you are in a prime position to ferret out scum so give it your best.

On the other hand I don't believe you wrote this sequentially as you'd like us to believe, because I've seen you online a few times and you have been active on the forum, so unless for reasons unknown you decided not zo review this thread in particular your post strikes me as manipulative on your part, not a good start.

[dodgy56]

@Dodgy

Yes. If dave flips scum, id probably think youre not his scumbuddy, so either SK or town.
If town, Id be more confident youre anti-town.

and people think im giving myself a way out??? you set yourself up here so that you can vote me whichever way dave flips...

also interesting that you dont include what happens if dave flips as SK. you clearly know there is a SK yet dont include it? why?

Dodgy, your point about voting for you either way I dig, but that question aboout Dave I dislike, why do you think forgetting about the SK is alignment indicative?

he already answered why he did so (that the chances were so small) and i can buy that explanation. it probably was a poor question when i look back at it. I was thinking that he might be SK and thus know that dave couldnt flip SK. its possible but i think that was a case of me not giving him enough credit. As SK i doubt he would make a slip like that. i find his explanation the more likely of the 2. Thoughts?

[dodgy56]

case against Eyestott: initial posts which seemed like buddying to me, voted on both bandwagons early in the day (and i think both are likely town at this point, was one of the last voters on the dave bandwagon, Voted dave onyl once he wasnt at L-2 (yet was scum reading him at the time)

thats the basis for my scum read on Eyestott

Ive already established I do that as both alignments.
Ive already established that my KP vote was mainly RVS.
And this last point is not good.My wanting to not put dave at L-1 is perfectly valid, especially since scumdave could just hammer himself and prevent any more information for the day.

wait wait, this thinking is not at all town... you say here you dont want to put dave at L-1(ok this has been discussed, i can understand that) but you go further and state that its worse because

scum dave

could self hammer?

Firstly why on earth would he hammer himself as scum? Secondly why is scum hammering themself there a bad position for the town? a scum lynch d1 is great for the town. like what are you even thinking? how can you honestly believe what you said here as town?

[copper223]

I think it's curious he mentions SK as a possible flip, I can see you thinking it's a possible slip because he "knows" there is one in the game so I like the explaination, my best guess is it is more related to what Killa said about Eyes playing in a way that covers his hindquarters, this doesn't have to be scum indicative but often is.

[copper223]

I'm not a fan of Anti (Heartless) for pushing back on Mastin because she wants to hear where they're at by the way, seems perfectly natural to me, finishing almost all of his posts saying he is short on time and has to go do this or that is starting to sound like a preemptive defense as well and he also mentioned Dodgy/Eyes as a pair, sheeping the general read that they are both scummy without, it seems, giving too much thought about their individual alignments or exposing himself by giving a read on the situation.

[copper223]

@mod: please prod Tean

[Tean Samargo]

Faust here.
This is the hydras main poster. My computer just imploded so I can't really make anything lengthy ATM. If you have anything brilliantly important to ask then either wait for the berry or bear with my typo filled answers.

[Tean Samargo]

*on the phone*

[copper223]

@Tean
Dodgy/Eyes, tvt tvs svt svs abd why?

[Heartless]

finishing almost all of his posts saying he is short on time

He's doing that for me. I was threatening to kick his ass if he didn't get to it soon.

The way this hydra works: Anti gets the first crack at it and I do the second reading with his reads in mind. This system's gotten really good results so far since Anti has a knack for getting good first impressions and I'm better at zeroing in on details that he glosses over.

That said, I'll be doing my read of this game tonight.

-TTH