Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)

[Lone Ranger]

In other words, the way GC posts places a lot of emphasis on presentation. I accuse him of being scum to which he responds with "you are slandering me" or some such post. Then he picks apart my townread on Malakittens and wages a semantic assault on a question I asked and later finds some other issue with my reasoning, refutes it and votes me. Town doesn't post like that. It belies an agenda. He doesn't want to look bad by OMGUSing immediately so spends a series of posts making it seem like he is scumhunting. I'm not sure I can explain it better than that. The things he is picking up on and questioning me about misses the greater thrust of what I'm trying to say in favor of less important points.

I also feel that he is taking advantage of some of the weaker players (like WhatisSwag) who normally provide weaker arguments and running with them to manipulate them. For instance WiS's question to me about the Mala townread and "gut" vs "logic" debate he got into is a fairly novice level argument. Very rarely do competent scumhunters pose the types of questions that he did. But GC takes it as a starting point to run his own argument. Anyways, tl;dr, I want him investigated. If he's town, it can only be helpful to have that figured out.

[elleheathen]

Pick someone. Literally anyone. I almost don't care anymore.

Also, why do you care

at all

.

You're voting me so you think I'm scum, yeah?
So why all the concern that your scumread isn't voting anyone?

[Grib]

Pick someone. Literally anyone. I almost don't care anymore.

Also, why do you care

at all

.

You're voting me so you think I'm scum, yeah?
So why all the concern that your scumread isn't voting anyone?

I care because town or scum, your indecisiveness is pissing me off and, as far as I'm concerned, it makes you a useless blob. But to be honest, it's not even just you, I'm being crabby in general for lots of reasons. It doesn't help that I was really looking forward to playing this game and then half the players decided to replace out all at once and we hit a rut and I stopped having fun.

I'm voting you because I never bothered unvoting.

UNVOTE:

I'm down with lynching an inactive because fuck waiting for replacements.

[davesaz]

If we're going to compromise on an inactive, I see NJAC's prod dodging as scummier than the disappearing act players.
Of the replacement pending players, I saw Corpses as a lot more likely to be scum than Riddleton.
The odds favor at least one scum being in the active players but it's hard to identify which one with the big slowdown.

Town is really going to need a lynch, to at least do VCA/NKA. In this environment a no-lynch is certainly bad and might be disastrous.

[Green Crayons]

@Ranger:

I accuse him of being scum to which he responds with "you are slandering me" or some such post.

lol, because:

LR, if you think GC's posts suck, attack him. Sink your claws in. Pointing fingers from the sidelines is for preschoolers.

*crickets*

Instead of actually explaining how my posts are this horrible fluff - you know, making a case here in the real world of the game - you simply allowed your jargon-riddled accusations to stand on their own. In fact, you got super defensive to Grib's suggestion that you actually back up your case in Post 668,

choosing to attack Grib for suggesting that you shouldn't rely on buzzwords

.

-----

Then he picks apart my townread on Malakittens and wages a semantic assault on a question I asked and later finds some other issue with my reasoning, refutes it and votes me.

Holy cow, you're really going all in on just making shit up at this point. Do you think people just aren't reading the game, so you can get away with rewriting reality?

I accused you of unnecessarily bringing semantics into the conversation as a way of defense (Post 747, Post 754) for

your

defense in Post 743 to my original suspicion of your Mala-town read.

The fact that you are now flipping that suspicion on me and suggesting that I brought "semantics" into the discussion first is a complete lie.

-----

The rest of your case against me is that I'm usually this godlike scumhunter, and I should be living up to that perfect standard, but instead I'm playing badly. Oh, and these other scrubs are being blinded by my experience.


First: lol, go fly a kite.


Second: Where to start in how shitty of a line of thought this is?

-It assumes I have this ability to play perfectly as town. (I don't.)
-It assumes I'm not playing at my best. (I am.)
-It assumes that my play is not affected by the stage of the game (Day One) or by the state of the players (multiple slots being replaced). (It is.)
-It assumes that others are being manipulated by me. (They aren't.)
-For it to be true, you have to assume that I'm simultaneously not playing well but somehow also taking advantage of "weaker" players.
-For it to be true, you have to hold the incorrect belief that my current play which "places a lot of emphasis on presentation" - which I'm assuming means how my posts look? - is now how my posts look in most games. Which Ranger in particular shouldn't belief, as she should be familiar with my recent games, as I don't play under alts and she seems to be well versed in how I should be playing based upon my experience.


Third: Seriously, this is a horrible basis for you to construct a GC-is-scum narrative, but it appears to be what has been driving you to try to figure out how you could box my posts into the scum category. At first I wasn't sure if maybe it was just paranoid town, but you seem sufficiently self aware and rationale, and therefore should have recognized by now that this factor motivating you to create a world in which I am scum is really worthless. Since you're running with it, weaving it into most of your posts criticizing me on an abstract level, I'm concluding that you know that it's bullshit and hoping that it will pick up for others to join in your bad vote.

[Green Crayons]

Screw a compromise lynch, kill Ranger.

[Kaboose]

Couldn't NJAC's constant proddodging mean there's a reason they don't want to just replace out like the others? Does anyone know enough about them to know if they like playing scum more than town?

[Whatisswag]

elle is our best choice, we dont have anything else because we might hit mason and there is no time to claim.

[Whatisswag]

VOTE: elleheathen

[Whatisswag]

Okay, I'm going to make a few comments on picking the third Mason. I think it should typically be someone active, hard to lynch, someone that you are reading reasonably as town. Me, Elle, and GC are good candidates for that. Especially me and GC as I think it would provide a lot of clarity to the town and help make sense of who to trust among the more active voices among the town.

I'm fairly sure GC will flip scum. His approach of a line of questioning followed by a vote seems premeditated. I don't know how he managed to flick away the previous suggestions that he be masoned. There is very little downside to Masoning immediately and also Masoning an active voice among the town.

Now for the lynch: the only concensus I can reasonably see forming is on one of the inactive players. I have no strong scumreads outside of GC at this point so there's no one I'd push for. Corpses and Riddleton are the ones in need of replacement so if we are going to compromise there, I'd vote either to help the lynch go through. I'll re-evaluate their posts tomorrow. I'm leaning corpses. I had them as town early partly because I was reading Elle as scum. Not a huge fan of their push from a town-Elle standpoint. So, that's who I'm voting unless Riddleton gets a lot more votes.

screw this post.

[Whatisswag]

And I kinda see a big change in Green's style these few pages. Like more initiative.

[Whatisswag]

There is a really weird interaction between NJAC and Grib, just like the interaction between elle and LR. If one turns out scum, I expect the other one to be scum too.

[Whatisswag]

Shit. i just forgot there are masons. But whatever.

[Kaboose]

How did you forget when you just quoted LR's post 30 minutes ago that talks about Masons?

[Whatisswag]

I dont read the thread 100% of all the time. When I get email notifications, I check and when I come back I forget.

[Cheetory6]

If we want a lynch to happen with 3+ people missing, we need to lynch someone we all agree on.

@GC&LR

, I'll try to sort through all of this interaction between the two of you, but I don't really see how either of you are going to seriously convince the like.. 6 other people here to sheep just one of you here.

I'd rather be able to like.. y'know.. actually lynch someone we want to lynch, but people are game-abandoning fucks and I'm not particularly cool with the idea of blindlynching on Corpses even if he might be scum.
You hear that NJAC? IF YOU CAN'T KEEP A PROMISE NINE TIMES WHY ARE YOU STILL MAKING PROMISES AT ALL. YOU'VE BROKEN MY HEART SO MANY TIMES.
K, but seriously though.
VOTE: NJAC
If you don't make a post before the end of this cycle that has any kind of fucking game-related content, I won't change my vote now, or on D2.

How do people feel about clearing some dead weight that's here to claim?

[davesaz]

Okay three days off in a row. Tomorrow illbe caught up here and ready to go!

Sadly, this hasn't happened yet.

[Cheetory6]

Dave, stop softpushing people.
Vote for NJAC or elle or convince me that awesome's interactions are scummy and worth wagoning on.
Otherwise your commentary is empty and unproductive this late in the cycle. GNOME WHAT I'M SAYIN?

[Green Crayons]

I'm going out of town for the weekend.

UNVOTE: Ranger
VOTE: NJAC

[Green Crayons]

Because:

I see NJAC's prod dodging as scummier than the disappearing act players.

[Lone Ranger]

NJAC is a meh vote. I'm not against it.
VOTE: NJAC
I'll be here to switch my vote should another wagon gain steam.

I'm far more interesting in putting forth the idea that one of me or GC should be masoned. That will solve a truckload of problems of perspective that a lot of players have with regards to us. If you know one person is town, that simplifies things.

[Lone Ranger]

I wouldn't make this suggestion as scum because it cuts down my avenues of attack on GC considerably if GC is town. But hey, you don't have to take my word for it as you could just Mason me and see if I'm scum.

[Lone Ranger]

It is notable that GC has never suggested or responded to that suggestion.

GC might probably argue that it is not "pro-town" to discuss night actions etc. But that would miss the context that the game is in: two active players very confident that the other is scum and most inactives barely keeping up with the game, reasonably sure that there is scum among the two but not sure which.

[Grib]

VOTE: NJAC

[davesaz]

@Cheetory: I was making one last attempt to reread and see if anything brilliant developed. And prodding Mala to do the same.

PEdit: @LR, your references to mason targets, and willingness to be recruited, are admirable. But I'm concerned about the role fishing aspect of that kind of discussion, which may not be intentional on your part. An insufficiently cautious mason might respond to it in a way that inadvertently outs themselves. I think we're best off leaving it to their judgment.

Pedit2: I was going to vote NJAC but a couple votes came in. Need to count first, don't want a derphammer without claim.