[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[TierShift]

As what do the power roles flip?

[Hostile Intent]

What are fisherman's possibilities

They're all 25% or less.

The Great Fishing Expedition

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

Town Day-Fisherman x 4
Townie x 3

Fisherman fish for their pr during the day and may use their successful "catches" at night.

Even and known split for VT/FM is going to ask for an early massclaim that is going to get scum in a hole very fast, it may be nearly an auto-loss if scum gets lynched day one. At most you are going to need something like a

Fish (2-4)
VT (3-5)

That sounds much better. I was afraid something as simple as mass claim might break it.

I still don't understand what a fisherman does.

They fish for pr's with low chances of getting them.

[TierShift]

So what pr's?

[Espeonage]

As what do the power roles flip?

They flip accurately.

[TierShift]

Are millers told they are mllers?

Even if not, the game is breakable by massclaim.
If scum doesn't claim PR, enjoy your three conftown who can also start to confirm town if the weak neighbouriser dies.
If scum does claim PR, you have the four claims target each other in this fashion: A-->B-->C-->D-->A. If either of the weak neighbouriser or masoniser hit scum (66%), scum loses their neighbouriser. If the neighbouriser connects with the scum neighbouriser, still no harm done. You have scum divided in two groups and with the next night you figure out the scum PR regardless.

[Espeonage]

Would it be fixed by not revealing what strain they are?

And no millers wouldn't be told. It's break the weak neighbourizer.

[TierShift]

My breaking strategy still works in 66% of the cases, I believe. It's only not as breakable in the other 33% of the cases anymore.

[TierShift]

You should draw out the possibilities for A, B, C and D's roles and highlight an optimal nightkill and then look at the percentages.

I think in very few/no cases there's not a confirmed scum day 3, but if the weak neighbouriser dies by targeting scum/miller it might be a scum victory by day 3.

I've contemplated A<->B C<->D targeting strategies but that still leaves you with the problem of neighbourisers targeting each other.
What is definitely suboptimal play is for unidentified PR's to target non-PR's as guilties and inno's don't mean shit and that can lead to deaths.
Another thing to keep in mind is: 2 kills-->one of them weak neighbouriser targeting scum. 1 kill, even weak neighbouriser-->target doesn't have to be scum.

I think fully calculating this will take you about 15-30 minutes, at least. Go try it.

[BBmolla]

Baby Scum 8P

2 Mafia 1-shot Doctors

1 1-shot Bulletproof Serial Killer

5 VTs

• Daystart
  
• The mafia team do not possess a nightkill
  
• Serial Killer wins 1-1-1 endgames and 1-1 endgames.
  
• Mafia wins 1-2-1 endgame.
  
• Every night, the VTs submit the name of a player. If the player named the most is scum, they are shot.

[Shinobi]

Cell Mini Mafia

• 15 players
  
• All Vanilla.
  
• Cells. There are 5 cells in game, each comprised of 3 players. Each cell has a mafioso in it. Town lynches in one cell per day.
  
• Day 1 is a shortened period wherein the players pick a mayor. The mayor picks the order in which players lynch into each cell.
  
• Mafia has daytalk.

[TierShift]

My earlier response was stupid, so I deleted it.
If scum has a nightkill, super scumsided
If scum does not have a nightkill, looks good. I think it will be scumsided in practice, since scum have a huuuuuge influence in the town; they only need to sway3 townies for a majority.

[Shinobi]

No nightkills. There's no night sequence in the original setup.

I might retroactively add a short one to give people a recharging period, though.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Does the town have to keep lynching in cells where scum was found? If so, awkward. If not, a scum lynch on Day 1 or 2 ends the game.

[TierShift]

Oh yeah, forgot that, lol. Looks pretty damning to scum.
Unless the mayor is scum, in which case scum always wins.

[Shinobi]

Game ends when one faction wins 3 cells.

When town lynches into a cell, the entire cell is removed from play. Only the lynchee flips.

[Bicephalous Bob]

That's very scumsided considering the 1/5 odds and the low information after a day 1 lynch. Two options:

1. Turn it into a micro. Everyone flips when a cell is removed.
2. Don't remove cells after town is lynched, just after scum is lynched.

-----

Spoiler: Competitive Mafia

Game Specific Rules

Setup and ruleset based on zoraster's Second Fortnight.

The Leaderboard

1. New players start with a rating of 250.
   
2. This game consists of four rounds, which are two-week-long mini-games themselves. At the start of each round, alignments are rerolled.
   
3. All rounds have the same setup, detailed below.
   
4. A penalty of -200 will be given to anyone who replaces out in the middle of a round, except if something unforeseeable happened.
   
5. A penalty of -100 will be given to anyone who notifies me in a timely manner they want to replace out after that round, so I can line up a replacement.
   
6. When a player gets lynched as scum or wrongly accuses someone as town, and their rating is below 0 after that, they are eliminated from the game. A townie can't be eliminated as a direct result of being lynched and scum can't be eliminated as a direct result of their partner being lynched.
   
7. The leaderboard isn't updated until the end of a round as not to reveal players' alignments.

The Setup

1. The setup is two Mafia Goons versus seven townies. The Mafia have daytalk. Plurality rules are in effect. If two players have received the same number of votes at the end of the day, I'll look at the last vote on each wagon. The player who got their last vote first gets lynched.
   
2. A round lasts a single Day and a single Night, which in turn last 12 and 2 days, respectively.
   
3. If the town lynches a mafia member on Day 1, the players' ratings will change as follows:
   
   
   Mafia Goons: -100
   Townies voting mafia: +100
   Townies not voting mafia: -35
   
   
   
4. If not, the ratings will change as follows:
   
   
   Mafia Goons: +20
   Townies voting mafia: +100
   Townies not voting mafia: -35
   Lynched townie: -35
   
   
   
5. If a townie is lynched, the mafia will via instant night select one of their members to
   Flee
   , thus removing from the game. The identity of the fleeing player is revealed to the town and they cannot be accused. The lynched townie turns into a
   Third Party Poltergeist
   .
   
6. Every other Town member becomes a
   Third Party Independent Private Investigator
   and will win or lose for themselves.
   
7. PI's have up to 48 hours to make an accusation. At the end of the night, Independent PIs must have submitted at least one accusation to the moderator. The most recent accusation counts.
   If a Mafia Goon was lynched, the PI's can make two accusations of which only one has to be correct.
   
   
8. The remaining mafia member instead of submitting an accusation submits a bribe. If the mafia member bribes a Private Investigator who in turn accuses the mafia member AND there are no other accusations against the mafia member, the Private Investigator is bribed, causing a win for BOTH that Private Investigator AND the Mafia. The lynched/fleeing Mafia player does not have a bribe to use.
   
9. The Poltergeist chooses someone to haunt. This doesn't influence anything but the Poltergeist's ranking. If the haunted player is mafia, the Poltergeist gains 135 points.
   
10. Ratings change as follows, if the remaining mafia member is not accused by any PI:
    
    
    Mafia Goons: +100
    Private Investigators: -20
    
    
11. ...if the bribed investigator is the only PI to accuse the remaining mafia member:
    
    
    Mafia Goons: +100
    Bribed Investigator: +100
    Other Private Investigators: -20
    
    
12. ...in all other cases of the remaining mafia member being accused:
    
    
    Mafia Goons: -30
    Successful PIs: +100
    Unsuccessful PIs: -20

Sample Role PMs

Townie

You begin as a member of the Town. On Day 1, you may vote in order to lynch a player. If the player you're voting at the end of the Day is scum, you will gain 100 points by the end of the round. If not, you lose 35 points.

At the end of Day 1, you will change from a member of the town to a Third Party Independent Private or, if you're lynched, to a Third Party Poltergeist. If a townie was lynched, one of the mafia will flee and you may accuse a single player of being the remaining mafioso. If a mafioso is lynched, you may accuse two players. If one of your accusations is right, you gain 100 points. If not, you lose 20.

If you're lynched, you lose 35 points and turn into a Poltergeist. As a Poltergeist, you can haunt a player instead of accusing them. If your target is the remaining mafia, you gain 135 points.

Mafia Lover

XXX and YYY, you are Mafia Goons. You have day talk and can converse HERE, even after Day 1.

If either you is lynched Day 1, your rating drops by 100 points. If not, you gain 20 points.

If neither you nor your partner is lynched Day 1, you must pick one of you to

flee

. You may do this by typing in bold in your Private Thread <b>Flee: PLAYERNAME</b>. This is instant night, so whenever the hammer is thrown, the player you have marked as fleeing will flee. By default XXX will flee. You may change the fleeing player at any time and as many times as you want up to the Day 1 lynch.

The player who flees will be removed from the game except that he may still chat with you.

If the remaining mafioso isn't accused, both of your ratings increase by 100 points. If not, you lose 30 points.

Bribe

Your accusation is actually a bribe. If you bribe a Private Investigator who in turn accuses you AND that was the only player who accused you, you will still get your points. The fleeing/lynched Mafia player does not have a bribe to use.

Confirm by posting in the Mafia PT.

[Shinobi]

It's not iml either.

[TierShift]

shinobi, the town EV of your setup is 0.21 with incredibly low info lynches. You should think of something to increase the EV.

Bob, why do you want to play the most annoying part of a game, day 1, 4 times?
Other than that, the score for lynched townie should be as low as a failing PI; if you got lynched, you suck at least as hard as they do. Instead, you can give them the opportunity to guess the scum, with a penalty for getting lynched. In that way, you can still test their ability of scumhunting, even if their town play doesn't look that town.

[BBmolla]

Cell Mini Mafia

15 players
All Vanilla.
Cells. There are 5 cells in game, each comprised of 3 players. Each cell has a mafioso in it. Town lynches in one cell per day.
Day 1 is a shortened period wherein the players pick a mayor. The mayor picks the order in which players lynch into each cell.
Mafia has daytalk.

Triplicate Mafia does this better imo.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Other than that, the score for lynched townie should be as low as a failing PI; if you got lynched, you suck at least as hard as they do. Instead, you can give them the opportunity to guess the scum, with a penalty for getting lynched. In that way, you can still test their ability of scumhunting, even if their town play doesn't look that town.

I think the burden of correct reads is mostly on the reader. Town play never looks like scum play, assuming townies don't deliberately try to be scummy.

But I do like the idea of giving the lynchees a chance to redeem themselves. I'll count it as a bribed accusation, or scum won't have any incentive to try and push lynches on people who are scumreading them.

[Shinobi]

I might just scrap it tbh. Someone offsite came up with the idea and ran it there, but I wanted to see how it would work with more strict rules for dealing with inactivity, which seemed to be the recurring issue there because scum would just go inactive around lynch deadline and become unlynchable.

I'll come up with something else, prbs.

[Shinobi]

Okay, so new ideas:

There's a two-player cell and it goes first. No matter what happens, town has a sense of direction and the flip mechanics don't need to be changed.

Daytalk and any kind of communication within the scumteam is removed.

Yay/nay?

[Bicephalous Bob]

The players in that cell are just going to spout a lot of confbiased bullshit at each other

[TierShift]

they don't have to. Look at how the dolphin micro went. They need to state opinions on other players.

[Shinobi]

they don't have to. Look at how the dolphin micro went. They need to state opinions on other players.

This.

The scumhunting between the two won't be high level, but it counteracts the need to mess with the flip mechanics and gives town information on day 1/2.