Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[copper223]

@Mastin
Vote me for that reason and I'll asume you are scum, I don't think I'm the kind of player you want to write off out of apathy in case I am town and I think you in particular have a good shot at deciding whether I am town or scum here so put some effort into it and decide.

[killapenwin]

In general, I've found the best cure for that is for day to end and us to have a flip, so on that note, probably gonna switch to copper, but...well, I just don't know. I have no thoughts on town or scum. But this isn't null. This isn't ambivalence. Null is there's thoughts but no read. (Except true null, when there's no posting thus nothing.) Ambivalence is feeling both ways. But copper right now is absolute absence of thought.

I suppose there's some ambivalence in joining, in that I half-expect I'll regret it and I'm half-expecting I'll regret

not

joining it. But I'm not sure how to better explain it than that.

Really, Mastin? My vote on Eyestott at the moment is for the exact same wishy-washy shit read that this is. I have no problem with the choice of target but your going to have to qualify it better than that.

After all you did say in 432that copper was cemented as town, so what changed?

[Heartless]

arthritic backpedal......
crappy appeal to mastin........

yeah, keep those votes coming ppl

[copper223]

Can you please call your sister and let her play?

[Heartless]

In general, I've found the best cure for that is for day to end and us to have a flip, so on that note, probably gonna switch to copper, but...well, I just don't know. I have no thoughts on town or scum. But this isn't null. This isn't ambivalence. Null is there's thoughts but no read. (Except true null, when there's no posting thus nothing.) Ambivalence is feeling both ways. But copper right now is absolute absence of thought.

I suppose there's some ambivalence in joining, in that I half-expect I'll regret it and I'm half-expecting I'll regret

not

joining it. But I'm not sure how to better explain it than that.

Really, Mastin? My vote on Eyestott at the moment is for the exact same wishy-washy shit read that this is. I have no problem with the choice of target but your going to have to qualify it better than that.

After all you did say in 432that copper was cemented as town, so what changed?

given the claim and the reactions to it so far, do you expect the eyestott wagon to be successful?

[Heartless]

Can you please call your sister and let her play?

she said she'd probably get to this later tonight

looks like you're stuck with me for now mr sugarpants

[copper223]

@killa

I have no problem with the choice of target

Explain this.

[copper223]

Can you please call your sister and let her play?

she said she'd probably get to this later tonight

looks like you're stuck with me for now mr sugarpants

Very well, please reply to the first two points I made in 727

[Heartless]

- I have no particular like or dislike of your posting style, nor do I like or dislike any posting style (maybe I'm not a big fan of giant walls one after the other) so this has nothing to do with how I viewed you early game, which was characterized by that associative read Dave dropped on you in lieu of any actual content from you guys, so why do you think I do?

because you're scumreading me saying that i was short on time and that's how i post. i don't filter myself and i let whatever verbal diarrhea spew forth. if a bird flies by and shits on my head, i would type that without a second thought. when i said i needed to go feed my dogs and wipe my butt, i wasn't kidding. when i said "brb" and complained about getting interrupted it's because i sat down w/ the intention of reading the game and i either get a phone call or someone approaches me and asks me to do something (which i do b/c i'm a sucker).

i don't know, i also get the vibe you don't like me very much. i get that from a lot of people and i'm kind of an unlikable prick, so i get it.

- OBVIOUSLY is not very obvious to me, my own opinion of the matter is that asking you to contribute can only be seen as townie or neutral, the fact you were scumreading her for it and went on whining about why she picked you in particular instead of going on the Dodgy/Eyes theatre was also strange, as if you can only point out one thing at a time, so I did not like that post and I said so, this is not directly connected to Mastin's alignment so why do you make the connection?

b/c i have a pre-existing rapport w/ mastin that i don't have with either dodgy or eyes. mastin's the person i know best on this player list so my early efforts are going to go on her especially when i'm running short on time.

[killapenwin]

Oh please Copper, don't act like your current vote on me isn't anything more than an attempt to curry favour with Heartless. You are using their read on me to try sway their vote on me and to protect Eyestott at the same time.

Heartless vote:

oh i'm dancin' with myself
oh i'm
dancin'
with
myself
well there's nothin' to

lose

and there's nothin' to

prove

i'll be dancin with myself

tth is swamped right now so i'm taking executive action
reaffirming
VOTE: copper

Copper's borrowed logic:

@Eyes
I have re-read what TTH said about you vs Dodgy and scum often labelling svt arguments as tvt is something I can agree with, and based on the number of players that latched onto the read that both you and Dodgy are scummy, I think, assuming you are town and din't just get lucky with the claim, that your scumread on Dodgy may be town OMGUS.

My preffered scumread, going off of Eyes town, is Killa, that L-1 while the idea of you and Aneninen being a team was floating around looks like a rushed attempt to end the day, your post to me seems more of an attempt to make me look scummy than to actually try and figure out something, it also assumes I consider Tean town, something that never was implied, but maybe something you already know.

VOTE: Killapenwin

If Eyes is town and Killa is scum, a likely team is Killa, Aneninen and Dave.

Heartless comment on anchoring:

you know, actually, i'm looking at the vote counts and i think tean is a scum anchor wagon. it's been static from the beginning and it's momentum is just PLOP sitting there.

(referring to me and aneninen)

My vote on Eyestott, I bolded the part where I acknowledge Heartless post:

Ok I have caught up to, @wicked no you are not insane, I do not know why BBT is trying so hard to defend Tean and buddying up to him.

@Aneninen sorry I am not 100% sure how to link multiple posts I think it has to do with the "Q+ button but I think that only allows you to do posts from a single page, whereas my comments covered Tean's posts over the whole thread. If you have Tean's ISO in 1 tab and my post in another it is not to difficult to cross-reference.

I am kind of feeling this Eyestott wagon and mostly because I don't like his indecisive style of play, it seems too noncommittal. It is almost as if he is justifying an excuse at the point of voting so that he can defend himself when things don't look too good for him if he makes a mistake for example. If you are making a point against someone you should be trying to convince others they are scum typically in a format like this:

Person .... is scum because ......(read/reason).. and ideally ->see this post ..(evidence/post)...

or at least in some format similar to that. When I read Eyestott's posts he just seems to be indifferent. I find a person who does that to be difficult to read, a player is either scum or not you may have conflicting points but at some point you are going to have to decide.

I played my last game against scumEyestott and he did the same that game, which is partly why I think the wagon on him is a better choice than the others proposed so far. I'll hold off voting for him right now as I would like to hear more from a few players mastin/vettrock/heartless first.

Meeting turned out to be a quick one, so I get to post more.

This post looks so town up till the last sentence. If you're confident in the read, why wait for other players? The wagon was only L-3 or so at this point, if I counted right.

Precisely this reason, there wasn't a recent vote count and I saw Eyestott had a few votes his way, Mastin put in a few posts whilst I was catching up in the thread and whilst I was writing that post, but I still wanted to hear more from other players as I wanted to go into day2 with a better read on some of my current null players.

The discussion is going well so I am happy I didn't cause a premature lynch. I am fairly confident Eyestott is scum and

will vote for him as it has been pointed out that my vote on Tean isn't going to go anywhere.

I tribute this to him dropping off the radar by not posting much you will see in my read of his posts that I do not think he has contributed much for town.

vote: eyestott (L-1)

If you have a claim to make eyestott now is the time to do it.

If Heartless post was really on to something I wouldn't have made reference to it there.

[killapenwin]

@ copper I'm not following your sudden halt on the Eyestott wagon or you lamenting his early role claim (that you were partly responsible for) only for you to ask that more Trackers out themselves??

It simply doesn't make sense, it is just looking like a complete breakdown in logic or a possible slip.

[Heartless]

- OBVIOUSLY is not very obvious to me, my own opinion of the matter is that asking you to contribute can only be seen as townie or neutral, the fact you were scumreading her for it and went on whining about why she picked you in particular instead of going on the Dodgy/Eyes theatre was also strange, as if you can only point out one thing at a time, so I did not like that post and I said so, this is not directly connected to Mastin's alignment so why do you make the connection?

>_>

you make a fanboy entrance of "i've read your guides" to mastin, you follow mastin's lead on davesaz, and now you're telling me it WASN'T obvious you don't put any stock in her opinions?

what
is
all
this
horse
shitfjdklsajiesjoauwfffffijesfi;asg

[Heartless]

...or wait a second... are you saying you WEREN'T townreading mastin at the time? is that the argument?

because i don't believe that

[Heartless]

@ copper I'm not following your sudden halt on the Eyestott wagon or you lamenting his early role claim (that you were partly responsible for) only for you to ask that more Trackers out themselves??

plz fill in the blank

"the reason i'm NOT voting copper right now is ___________"

[copper223]

I am saying I would not have liked that post if you directed it to Davesaz, my biggest scumread at the time, my read on Mastin at the time (which I already told you was leaning town) is besides the point and I want to know why you made that connection.

[Heartless]

also killa my last question wasn't rhetorical

what are your expectations for achieving an eyestott lynch
b/c i'm not voting eyestott today

[Heartless]

I am saying I would not have liked that post if you directed it to Davesaz, my biggest scumread at the time, my read on Mastin at the time (which I already told you was leaning town) is besides the point and I want to know why you made that connection.

usually when you call someone down for a bad attack, it stands to reason the attack-ee is more likely town than not.

you also said something about how mastin's line of questioning was "valid" or something like that, so it stands to reason you were townreading mastin, yes?

[copper223]

@Killa
When Heartless presented his anchor wagon theory, I went, re-read Aneninen, and told him he was wrong, are you saying I'm now trying to "curry favour" as you put it by being inconsistent about it? Very smart of me.

How was I responsible for his early claim? I actually wrote a post saying it was not L-1.

The fact you tried to put him at L-1 there, assuming he is town, makes you objectively the most likely scum in this game, all the rest is window dressing and speculation, if Heartless is right on you and Aneninen and my read there was bad even better, but it's certainly not the reason why I changed my read on you, why are you picturing it this way?

Then you have a problem understanding this game if you are town, once he claimed, as I have already explained multiple times, it was necessary for a second tracker (provided he exists) to claim as well.

[copper223]

usually when you call someone down for a bad attack, it stands to reason the attack-ee is more likely town than not.

you also said something about how mastin's line of questioning was "valid" or something like that, so it stands to reason you were townreading mastin, yes?

Not because her line of questioning was valid, I said I thought Dodgy might be scum although the theory points he was debating with Eyes were all in his favour (hence valid), but ok I buy this.

[killapenwin]

@copper what was your reason for abandoning the eyestott wagon? I don't see a reason for it just a change of to vote Mastin with no reason.

@heartless I am not believing eyestotts claim and doubt he will survive the night if he is town, I also think his death could shed some light on potential scum. I have not seen a vote count in a while and am happy to vote copper, whichever is more viable as a lynch.

[mastin2]

@Mastin
I don't think I'm the kind of player you want to write off out of apathy in case I am town and I think you in particular have a good shot at deciding whether I am town or scum here so put some effort into it and decide.

Gun to head?

Town.

[killapenwin]

vote: copper

If I am picturing you voting me for Heartless's reason then it is because you have not given any other reasons.
760 is my reason.

[mastin2]

Also, killa's posting on this page just looks town to me.

Also, also, should be noted that when Anti posts it makes me think copper's scum but when copper posts it goes right straight back into town. :/

[mastin2]

(That means the read has evolved from absence of thought into ambivalence, by the way. )

[mastin2]

Hey, Anti. How important is it that we sort copper today?

Given the above, I'm kinda just wondering if there's someone else we can lynch today that would make us both happy, while giving me a night to think over copper.

'Cause not a chance in hell I'm getting a good read on copper in the next couple of days.

If, and I do mean, IF, we have another read we can both agree/focus on, then I'd say we can both go there and save sorting copper for tomorrow.
If not (which'd suck), then sure, copper, but this is the option that I think I'd be most comfortable with: lynching copper if there's no alternative, saving sorting copper for tomorrow if there is.