Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[copper223]

@Boo
Regarding your question, I am discounting input from players forgetting to submit their actions, when they learn to play I'll listen to what they have to say.

CoA claimed investigative, for today I'm assuming they are legitimate, this matches up with my view of the game that 2 of {Boo,Ghato,Cat,Kthx}, you can add Copper snd remove yoursel if you are town, are scum hence it would seem highly likely a double buss on CoA would have had to occur, something I find really hard to swallow.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty
Kthxbye
copper223
Ghatokaca
catastrophe

Okay. I know I'm town, so pending Fferyllt's response, there are either one or two scum in Kthxbye, copper, Ghato and Cat.

Krystal Bald
Tiershift
Brantz
Faster than light
Medea the Alien
Cask of Amontillado

Tiershift, if you're town and you think that both CoA and Brantz are town, that narrows it down to one or two scum in KB, FTL and Medea the Alien.

Here's how I see the claimed events of the night (correct me if I'm wrong).

FTL sends a vig shot at Cask that doesn't work.
Brantz claims a jailkeep on Cask.

What happens in thread happens in a different order:

FTL claims a guilty on CoA.

I voted CoA.

CoA says FTL is a role cop, says there's a scum power role on the wagon that didn't get sensored. Says he has an even-night action.

Actually, UNVOTE: . I was for some reason thinking that CoA had used the power last night and it had failed because of Brantz jailkeep; I don't want to lynch a claimed investigative today.

Copper jumps on CoA's theory (without any sign of wanting to check with Ffery, same with CoA) and agrees that we should be pushing people on the Lynx wagon. Bad bad bad.

EBWOP: No, Copper, I'm saying your progression here is pretty scummy. Nothing happened for me overnight to change my reads. Why are yours all shiny and different now?

Further EBWOP: Why are you assuming that there are two? We don't have any confirmation either way yet. Why is that the more likely case barring input from the Mod?

[copper223]

@Boo
Orly? What did I tell you yesterday, I live in the world were Boo&Friends are all nice people and we can get a solid town circle that isolates scum. Then I read the mod wording, and flavour my ass what they write in these circumstances is calculated to a T, you blindly assuming she would say at least one just as flavour is what is bad bad bad or scummy here, so I sigh and think to myself, well Copper, you fucked up with that circle yesterday and that means CoA was likely town, so their read on Boo is probably correct. Where is my progression questionable? Your progression is far shadier to me, not even considering new information and proceeding as if nothing happened, jumping on the CoA wagon without even listening to what they had to say or for FTL to tell you exactly what they had on them.

[copper223]

@Boo
Anyway Ffery just told me the wording is accurate, so that "at least one" is not flavour.

[copper223]

@Boo
I already answered your second question

@All
I have been thinking the same thing CoA said, the mod wording of one, at least one, to me is vernacular of there is one scum that was scanned and a player that cannot be scanned on that lynch. Now a town player that cannot be scanned better not be, so I can only assume said player is scum, so 2 out of 6 and 1 in the 5 (ebwop:it should be 6 here), it also shows scum controlled who joined the lynch pretty effectively.

these were my thoughts during the night and what made me change my read on the two of you.

[Bookitty]

One issue I see with leaving me alive today is this:

CoA has claimed even night investigator. If he is not nightkilled, that would be pretty indicative that he's scum. However, if I'm alive I suspect I'll be the target for his investigation, which would be a waste as I'm town. I'm not ascetic nor yet superpowered in some way to block sensors.

There was a nightkill last night. FTL's claim that he tried to shoot CoA and failed makes sense given Brantz's claim of a jailkeep. I was thinking CoA's failure to comment on an investigation was incriminating; since it's even night, though, I don't think that now. So either FTL and Brantz are on a scumteam together or they are both town. I think they are both town. Looking at it like that, it's:

Krystal Bald
Tiershift
Medea the Alien
Cask of Amontillado

Off the wagon. By role, I would say there are reduced chances of KB and Tiershift. (BTW, Copper, what is the scum motivation for KB saying she wasn't sure Lynx was town?) For me that makes Medea the only possible lynch off the wagon. CoA should in no way be the lynch today because if he's truthful, he's dead tonight or he's going to have information.

On the wagon:

Kthxbye
copper223
Ghatokaca
catastrophe

I still don't think Kthxbye is scum. His power turns out to be legit; while that doesn't make him town, it does make him truthful.

I have a question in to Ghato and I would like an answer to it to verify his power. I'm not giving him a pass, but I'm waiting there.

For me that leaves one or two scum in Cat/Copper. I would vote Copper over Cat right now. Waiting for more information.

If people don't believe me, then it's better I be lynched now and CoA at least have a chance to use his claimed power. I voted him before he claimed and I am just now having a chance to put some of these pieces together.

[Bookitty]

I continue to support a Cask lynch. I'm disappointed that Policy Lynch didn't use his power, but I still think Cask is the most likely scum off the wagon.

VOTE: Cask of Amontillado

I'm very tired but I will check in tomorrow early.

Also, that was my sole post last night before heading to bed. It was right after FTL's claim of guilty. Painting that as scummy because I didn't wall is pretty shady.

[copper223]

I have no idea why you think I'm scum outside of OMGUS. The scum motivation for Krystal doing that is they want to be left off the lynch if their two teammates are already on it and alienating Lynx is a pretty good way to do so without being too suspicious about it.

[copper223]

Also, that was my sole post last night before heading to bed. It was right after FTL's claim of guilty. Painting that as scummy because I didn't wall is pretty shady.

If you are town get off the OMGUS, it was shady and I am not even the first to mention it.

[Bookitty]

If you are town get off the OMGUS, it was shady and I am not even the first to mention it.

No. You weren't. Do you think that makes it better?

[copper223]

I think, if you are town, it shows you that it's your perspective that doesn't make it shady when objectively it is

[copper223]

Either you missed a key information and tunneled on CoA because she was scumreading you (I did the same, not here to blame) which ended up hurting your crediblity here, or you are scum and jumped on it, this is how it is, you saying I'm trying extra hard to paint scum on you is BS.

[copper223]

I am town, don't you think I'd like to play a town game with the both of us again?

[Bookitty]

So posting briefly when I was tired and voting my TOP scumread at the time because of what appeared to be a scum investigation on him was shady objectively?

O RLY?

[copper223]

Yes, why didn't you wait to see what FTL had on them?

We just finished Hope Plus one and guess what my two teammates did when I counterclaimed Acryon, they both immediately followed me on the lynch like two fools (could have kicked them), sounds familiar?

[Bookitty]

What I've derived:

Either FTL and Brantz are scum together or neither is scum. FTL claiming a vig on CoA makes little sense for scum or SK (why draw the attention?) and Brantz providing the helpful explanation for that failure doesn't make sense either unless they were both scum together and playing very poorly. I'm not assuming that, especially since the failure of the vig shot wouldn't make sense without the corresponding jailkeep.

The even-night investigation puts CoA off the table for today. It doesn't clear him, but it does mean he's not the lynch for today. If he's truthful, he's likely dead tonight. This is one reason I think it might be better to lynch me today. Whatever my amazing power that hasn't manifested yet, I need to be off the table for the investigation. Otherwise, this happens:

1. Town-COA claims an innocent on me and lives, making him a huge target for lynching if he isn't the nightkill.
2. Scum-COA claims a guilty on me, you lynch me and then you trade another townie at night for lynching scum-COA the next day.
3. Town-COA is the nightkill and I'm lynched tomorrow anyway.

So I have to recant my FTL scumread, because thinking about it more deeply, he can't be scum with the people I said. I don't know on CoA. I do know I prefer my lynch to his today.

[Bookitty]

1. above assumes I would be the nightkill. I don't know if it's as incriminating for COA if it's someone else, though.

[Bookitty]

Yes, why didn't you wait to see what FTL had on them?

We just finished Hope Plus one and guess what my two teammates did when I counterclaimed Acryon, they both immediately followed me on the lynch like two fools (could have kicked them), sounds familiar?

Do you think my one vote was going to turn the tide on lynching COA?

I don't see how your second comment is in any way analogous to this situation. Please explain further.

[copper223]

It's the speed, which is normally scum indicative and the point of the analogy, I came into the thread after drinking my morning coffee, saw the guilty claim and thought to myself: well shit is going down, let's see what they are both saying, my first reaction was not to vote for one of them.

Now having played with you I think there is a chance you confbiased because of OMGUS on CoA, you did not like both Llama and Regfan and they were both town incorrectly scumreading you in the other game and you saying we should lynch you if we have doubts is classic town Boo... have to think about it, I'll read a scumgame of yours when I have more time.

[Bookitty]

If you really believe that there are two scum on the wagon, then:

Bookitty
Kthxbye
copper223
Ghatokaca
catastrophe

Is your lynch pool. Two of those five are scum by this theory. If you're on this list and you are town, you should be coming up with your two most likely and probably a third. If it's certain that two are there, that's better odds than voting off the wagon. I don't personally think it's certain either way, but as I said, I prefer my lynch to CoA's today anyway.

EBWOP: Copper, you yourself said there were plenty of reasons to find CoA scummy that didn't have to do with me. I verified that with you yesterday, remember? So why are you putting my whole case to OMGUS now when that's not what happened? Sure, I could be wrong, but I had reasons. Was your whole suspicion on COA yesterday OMGUS?

No, pushing a crap case on someone is not solely the province of scum (Regfan proved that) but it's more likely to come from scum than town. That said, I could be wrong about him based on a claimed role.

The speed is irrelevant. I was going to sleep, checked the thread and posted. I couldn't post later because I was asleep, shockingly enough.

[copper223]

I agree there was more to it than OMGUS, in both my case and yours, but at this point I mentally switched to viewing CoA as town so this is why I am seeing it from this perspective.

I do think those 5 {Boo, Copper, Kthx, Cat, Ghato} are the lynch pool for today.

[Bookitty]

If the speed of my vote on CoA was alignment indicative in your opinion, what about the speed of your vote on me?

Explain, please, and also explain why the Hope Plus One game is relevant to what is going on here?

One reason I was suspicious yesterday is that Sthar was commenting that TTH was yelling about you in the hydra thread. Yet you were a strong townread for them by the end of yesterday. I became progressively more suspicious of you based on your scumplay in that game; the reverse seemed to happen for them after that flip in that game. Obviously I couldn't talk about it, and I tried to warn gently about that when Sthar posted what he did about TTH's comments. If I was wrong, I'm sorry, but as someone who HAS been warned for obliquely mentioning another game, I wanted to prevent that happening in this one.

If you are town, I don't see how you come to the CoA is practically conftown conclusion here. Yeah, he's not the lynch for today. That doesn't make him conftown. He could be lying about an investigative role and setting up a lynch for tomorrow. Tomorrow is soon enough to worry about that, though. Why are you resetting reads and conclusions based on CoA-town? Do you KNOW he's town?

[copper223]

I am shamelessly forwarding my candidature for the next scummies based on that game, it was not easy to get 5 townies on my side while being bussed by a teammate and while the other one first supported me and then decided to site flake (I hate you Dino ) putting extra suspicion on me from the guys scumreading him.

@Boo
What about it, I saw the argument between CoA and FTL, tried to solve it, arrived at the conclusion that they probably are both town and checked back on who jumped on the possible mislynch, lo and behold the player I was already considering as potentially scummy based on my thoughts during the night did so, and voted for you, does that look like a snap vote to you?

I already explained, jumping too fast on claims is often scum indicative, town is usually confused about what is going on and needs some time to figure it out, and that was an example where by using that tell you would have caught 2/3 of the scumteam.

As for that game, you noticed the flip on me later than TTH, who was in game at the time, in fact I was suspicious of you because you were still saying you had a good handle of my town game when I had already flipped scum there, after I read the dead thread I noticed you did not check-in until you started to warn people about me (that's why I said I understood your lack of paranoia before, and that tell went away).

I already told you how I come to CoA as likely town, I think there is little doubt the mod wording means there are two between {Boo, Catastrophe, Ghato, Kthx}, so if you assume CoA is scum there is a 75% chance they got bussed by

both

their teammates and a 100% at least one did, as the only one not scumreading them was Kthx, I think that is really unlikely. I also buy TTH being bitchy with me after the flip on Lynx happened and her starting the day saying precisely what I was thinking, information scum would much rather conceal like Ghato did (on purpose or not), also gives them town points, the whole interaction with FTL also looks genuine to me.

[CaskOfAmontillado]

If I was wrong, I'm sorry, but as someone who HAS been warned for obliquely mentioning another game, I wanted to prevent that happening in this one.

I'll put this to bed right here and now.
Relevant history I was talking about

[Bookitty]

@COA: Fair enough. That makes your shift on copper even MORE inexplicable given the timing, though. Can you explain it?