Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[Bookitty]

Also:

@boo: I have what I would guess to be the exact same wording in my role PM. My abilities may change based on unknown game events as well (also somewhat paraphrased).

@Tiershift: He did.

[CaskOfAmontillado]

@COA: Fair enough. That makes your shift on copper even MORE inexplicable given the timing, though. Can you explain it?

If he's buddying here, it's working but I don't think that's the case given his initial opinion of me.

[CaskOfAmontillado]

One, at least one! There are at least one non-Morbid betrayer involved in my demise!

I've seen a lot of speculation here, but no one has provided information direct from the mod or has indicated that they've even asked her. If they were really concerned about it, why wouldn't they have asked her in thread or via PM?

Why the focus on speculation rather than on finding out the truth?

The whole wringing hands and speculating seems like scum theater to me. Why not just ask?

She stated quite clearly "at least one." That's not an exact phrase and there's not much wiggle room there. I'm making the very basic assumption ffery meant what she said and said what she meant.

[CaskOfAmontillado]

I think you're going at this backwards, copper.

Off the wagon include: Faster Than Light, CaskOfAmontillado, Krystal Bald, Medea the Alien, TierShift, BRantz

Due to role related claims, I'm eliminating FTL, TierShift, and BRantz.
Between Krystal Bald and Medea the Alien I think Medea is definitely a lot scummier.

[Bookitty]

@COA: You're reading that to mean two, though. It might mean that; I'm not discounting it. If Ghato confirms that he got the same answer from Ffery, then I'll go ahead with that assumption. It's all very odd to me anyway because she says "One" first and then amends it. One is, of course, at least one. To me, that means one of a few things:

There's one and Ffery is deliberately being obscure for whatever reason.
There are two and one is an {ascetic, investigation-proof scum, something I haven't heard of}

We're all assuming there are three scum but we don't even know that for sure.

I'm curious about copper's "town circle" theory. Since Policy Lynch was my number one town and it looks like FTL and Brantz are also town, I think it boils down to suspicion of Tiershift and Ghato as people I supposedly infiltrated into the town circle, right?

If there is an investigation-proof townie on the Lynx wagon (ascetic) I think they should probably claim. PLEASE don't claim, though, until someone else backs this up. I am not sure of the consequences of this at the moment, but I think it's one explanation if Ghato backs up what copper has claimed about Ffery's response.

[copper223]

@CoA
I am not prepared to clear Tier and I also told Boo why Krystal and I broke up. I want to hear what Medea has to say, this kind of play is suicide as scum so why is he playing like this?

@Boo
If there is an ascetic on the Lynx lynch I am assuming they are scum or went out drinking with the Policy Lynch crew yesterday night.

[Catastrophe]

I've seen a lot of speculation here, but no one has provided information direct from the mod or has indicated that they've even asked her. If they were really concerned about it, why wouldn't they have asked her in thread or via PM?

I have to wrap my head around all this stuff and talk to TSO about what's happened but I'd just like to point out that we did, in fact, ask the mod:

We have a question in to the mod about what she meant when she said there was at least one scum on the Lynx wagon.

--tool.

[copper223]

She already replied to me that the wording is accurate, let me know what she tells you.

[Bookitty]

@Cat: So did Ghato. I myself asked in thread. Copper hadn't indicated even that they'd asked at the point they sheeped COA's invisible scum on the sensor theory. Copper has said he already got a response, though. Have you?

I don't know if COA has asked.

[copper223]

@Boo
Assuming town, you blindly followed the wrong interpretation so please... but you are right that I could have tried to confirm it first, it just seemed so logical to me I did not even think there would be any doubt and I was so surprised at what looked like a clear attempt to hide the facts that I wanted to give immediate relevance to what TTH said. It is also not something that would naturally occur to me as it is not part of my regular games, the mod is a clock on the table and a vote counter.

[Catastrophe]

@Cat: So did Ghato. I myself asked in thread. Copper hadn't indicated even that they'd asked at the point they sheeped COA's invisible scum on the sensor theory. Copper has said he already got a response, though. Have you?

She sent it to TSO, so I hadn't seen the response until just a minute ago when she forwarded it to me. All she said was that the results she posted are correct.

Also, when did Ghato ask?

[Bookitty]

a clear attempt to hide the facts

Here's my issue with it. Saying "at least one" also means one. To ME it looked like an attempt to inspire town paranoia about a potentially game-breaking use of Lynx's power. *I* do not know how many scum are on the wagon. It did seem like something scum would seize on to try to skew the results, but I didn't think about it more than that.

I haven't played a game modded by Ffery before, but I will say from my experience of her town play that she's more than sharp enough to throw in that wording to confuse the results. The fact that she's confirming that this was a deliberate choice of wording could mean:

1. That she deliberately worded it that way to make the results less definitive (though I would think that was sort of scum-sided and I wouldn't like it)
2. That she was being absolutely truthful and telling the town the results weren't definitive regardless of Lynx's role PM (though I would think that was sort of town-sided, role-revelatory and I wouldn't like that either)
3. It's just the way she worded it for flavour and now she's stuck trying to explain it without confirming or denying any of the theories floated in the thread

I want to hear from Ghato and Cat (and maybe I'll send my own PM too) to see what she says, but I don't like 1 or 2 for the reasons stated.

[Bookitty]

Also, when did Ghato ask?

No idea. I looked again and I don't see any evidence for this. It's possible I confused you with Ghato, but I don't know why I thought Ghato had sent a PM too.

[copper223]

Frankly 1 and 3 (even more so as she could have just corrected herself after our requests) just assume the modding is terrible and I have no reason to assume it is. 2 is not town sided, if you have a player that cannot be scanned on the wagon, and why would that player be a townie, then that's how you word it given Lynx's ability.

[Bookitty]

2 reveals that there is a non-Morbid role that is immune to investigations. That's role-revelatory in a way I would not think that a Mod would be. If 2 is true, then the Mod has essentially confirmed one of the roles or abilities of a non-Morbid member without a flip. How is that not town-sided?

[copper223]

It does not say it's non morbid, that's an assumption we make because a morbid should not have joined that lynch if he were unscannable.

[Bookitty]

One, at least one! There are at least one

non-Morbid betrayer

involved in my demise!

Reading is fundamental.

[copper223]

Yes it is. It does not say anything about the second, third or fourth player, because they cannot be scanned.

[copper223]

Even the assumption that it's 2 is something we make.

[Bookitty]

Okay, your whole point is that there are two scum on the wagon because OMG Ffery said "at least one."

What is your point now? That there is a townie that can't be scanned there and that's why she said it?

If there is a second scum who can't be scanned, 2 is town-sided. If you're now arguing that this is not the case, why were you sheeping COA on his second unsensorable scum on the wagon theory?

[copper223]

My point is that Ffery writing that is in no way town sided.

If there is a non scannable scum player, something that by design is likely since you would assume some protection from the scumteam getting nabbed by Lynx's power alone, how do you word it?

You say, the scan revelealed there is one non morbidy and possibly more than one, the way Ffery put it is:

one, at least one, ...

That is the only way she can write it and be consistent with the use of Lynx's ability which doesn't say anything about giving us an approximate number in this case, and not revealing anything about the scanned player(s), this is further reinforced by her saying the wording is accurate.

We arrive in game at two because we make a series of very reasonable (but by no means universally true) assumptions, these being:

- Scum wants to split 2-1

- Given the wording there is one or more non-scannable player(s) on the lynch

- The non-scannable player(s) has(have) no reason to be townie, so it must be a second (or more) scum player.

[Bookitty]

how do you word it?

You don't. If there's a scum role that is immune to the sensor, they're immune. When I have investigated people who were immune to investigations, I got a "no result" (which could have been said outright) or an innocent. The point of being immune to investigations is that you are immune. Hinting around about the particulars of a scum role is town-sided on the part of the Mod. I don't think she would do that.

[Bookitty]

Off the wagon include: Faster Than Light, CaskOfAmontillado, Krystal Bald, Medea the Alien, TierShift, BRantz

Due to role related claims, I'm eliminating FTL, TierShift, and BRantz.

Between Krystal Bald and Medea the Alien I think Medea is definitely a lot scummier.

I agree with this more or less. On the wagon is:

Bookitty
Kthxbye
copper223
Ghatokaca
catastrophe

I can eliminate myself (and any other town can eliminate themselves). For role reasons, I'm thinking kthxbye is town (his power is very town-sided, as Varsoon could probably attest) and waiting on info from Ghato on the question I asked of Lynx.

For me it's the same two-way split on the other side: Copper/Catastrophe. I'm not liking copper (I'm sure that's obvious) and if there WERE two scum on this side, that's a slam-dunk.

I want my answer from Ghato about the question I asked Lynx before I'm going to commit to this, though.

[copper223]

Then the wording is not accurate.

This is the same problem between role blocker and role stopper, if the scan cannot be used on them then you should get no result but if they can be scanned but the power fails to tell you anything about them what Ffery said is the only way to put it.

[copper223]

Oh so now you believe me and I am arguing so you can lynch me and my buddy?