Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[Bookitty]

I'm cool with putting a pin in the discussion. I feel like you are dancing around the points I'm making by answering things I haven't even asked, so I'm just as happy to have others read over the quotes I provided and your reactions and make their own decisions.

I still think we ought to lynch Kthxbye first, fwiw.

[copper223]

@Tool
That is a lie, you were the first to ask if someone believes that claim because you don't, and you go ahead and vote him shortly after, without any input from Policy.

Fair enough, let's see what the rest of the players make of it.

[Bookitty]

I'm glad you are town, copper.

[copper223]

^^

[Kthxbye]

Alright, I got a break and for some reason I'm wasting it with you all.

Things you MUST believe in order to believe Kyrstal's claimed role and result:
1. The MOD doesn't give a shit about her own game and the roles she made and gave out.

I asked fferylt, and I'm going to permanently lose my vote for violating my post restriction so egregiously, but I'm frankly kinda sick of it. It was fun at first but got frustrating quickly. I'll only be able to make one post like this; ffery said that a second intentional violation of my restriction would be a modkillable offense. So I'll try to make this post as long as possible.

This is bullshit. If you believe this, you need to play more games as MOD's aren't going to do this. Period.
2. The MOD made scum really really weak. I don't think anyone can argue that my death and the absence of card flips after the fact is pro-scum.
Wiki: "Enablers are usually, but not always, Town."
3. You must believe that the card flips are not important enough for town to have and are better for scum to have. This already has been proven NOT to be the case with Lynx's flip. Let's say I was lynched or killed D1/N1. Lynx get's lynched for the info D2 or later. Town doesn't get his card flip. Town is now taking only what he says about his role, which isn't quoted by him, and uses that to try and get info. If you're town, look at your own roles. You must believe that town seeing it after you get lynched or killed is actually less informative for town than it would be for scum if you believe the MOD gave my PR to the scum team.
4.

Although at some point we have to talk about the likelihood of town having a sensor, a rolecop and a third even-night investigative role.

FFS this....so much this. Let's not make it "at some point" and make it right fucking now.
5. And finally (and probably the biggest thing that stood out to me while thinking about this), is that if you believe Krystal is town and her claim, you must believe that the MOD gave Krystal at no talking post restriction ALONG WITH an investigative PR. Tell me, all you believers, how is a role cop to get across a guilty on scum when they can't talk? Either Krystal doesn't have the post restriction or she doesn't have the PR she's claiming. I don't see how you can believe a world in which the MOD did this.

Krystal is lying and scum and wants Kthx lynch because Kthx is a power role Krystal can't keep around.

This is correct.

No matter what, I think the Kthx lynch is the best option.

This makes absolutely ZERO sense and I don't understand how you can actually think this right after you post the above as a possibility. Since scum Krystal is lying and going kamikaze to get me lynched b/c scum are worried about having their role cards flipped, why in the flying fuck would I still be the best option?!!

Well, I can find nothing in kthx's claim that suggests a strongman, rather a line that denies having other abilities.
I can also not think of a reason for town to have a strongman.

This is 100% factual. I am NOT a strongman of any sort. I am Morbid.

I trust her.

You really shouldn't.

Krystal's post restriction doesn't really fit Madeline Usher.

That's because now that I know she's scum and going kamakazi, she prolly doesn't even have the post restriction as discussed above.

Scum

Town is screwed imo.

FTFY

Alright, I'm done quoting you all.

Things to consider if you follow through with my lynch because you don't understand common sense:

-copper is 100% town. The fact that he's spending time trying to make connections to me under the assumption that I'm scum would be a complete waste of time if he knew I was flipping town. Never lynch this
-boo is still town. As I talked about earlier, her posts surrounding the Lynx flip are spot on with mine and that just means she's got a town mindset since I'm town. Never lynch this.
-Cask is prob town. Bringing up that Krystal's claimed restriction doesn't really fit isn't something Krystal's scum partner would do.
-Cata is prob town. p968 isn't something I'd see Kyrstal's scum partner post. Considering keeping me around is directly opposed to Krystal's kamakaze to get me lynched.

If nothing else, that's a block of 4 townies you can count on to be town once I flip.

VOTE: Krystal

[Kthxbye]

So, here are the 3 plays for today.

Lynch me today and lynch Krystal tomorrow.

Lynch Krystal today.

Band together and force Kystal to post words again to see if she get's Modkilled and if she does, then lynch the shit outa me.

Those are the 3 options.

MOD: If you have to modkill for any reason, does the day end or continue?

[Faster Than Light]

Here's the other issue:
Your entire defense relies solely on the effectiveness of a claimed role.
If we're believing in the power of claims, then Krystal claiming you have a strongman shot means you are scum regardless of anything else (unless you're a vig, ask Cask may have slipped?)
So you should understand that you should not be making an argument steeped in the capacity of your role.
Because anyone who cares about role-claimed arguments will likely side with Krystal here.

Forcing a player to be modkilled is bad. No.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

@Cask: Why did you say town had two vigs?
Also, yeah, sorry for going all in on you. I did not say I had a guilty, though. In the end, we potentially cleared three town with that exchange, so I don't think it turned out poorly.

[Bookitty]

Think about Policy Lynch's power (which he didn't use). A loveriser is essentially a vig because they choose someone to die along with the lynch or nightkill.

I don't find the argument that Krystal had to get rid of kthxbye to be compelling because she 1) lost her vote to do it, which is verifiable and has been verified, and 2) why not go after a more powerful role, if you're going to kamikaze anyway?

Not buying that.

[copper223]

Violating post restrictions can have nasty results depending on the moderator and your role. These punishments range from losing your Night action to getting "warned" to getting modkilled. If warnings are used, it is not advised for them to be given publicly, as that confirms that the player has a post restriction.

[Kthxbye]

No, my defense is more than that. Read the post. Her claim makes no sense. Post restriction of silence with role cop. Never in a million years would this get approved.

Also, does nobody find it really convenient that she used the ability on a pre-existing claim? Let's look at these reasons:

a) I was suspicious of him for his play.
b) I was suspicious of him for the timing of his claim. He claimed for no real reason yesterday, and I thought that if he was town he would have played his cards closer to his chest with that role.
c) I was suspicious of the claim itself. The way our role PMs are formatted, is we have a While Alive Ability, and then under that is a separate While Dead ability. The role that kthxbye claimed makes no sense in that format, since it'd be redundant. In addition, he claimed a While Dead ability that benefits scum, whereas every town role we've seen so far has benefited town.

a) Where was it shown with her mimicking?
b) Same as a). Also, I explained why I claimed when I did. I did it to keep everyone on track and avoid the alternate road the conversation was taking. I got it out of the way.
c) The biggest load of horse shit ever. First of all, my role PM doesn't have a "While Dead" ability, only the "While Alive". Look to your own PR's. If everyone else has both, then fine, lynch away. The reasoning for c) is still a complete fabrication as what I wrote was this: "I'm The Conqueror Worm. I am of the Morbid (as if I'd claim anything else). I enable full card flips. Upon my death, only character's and their alignment will be flipped." This is as close to quoting a role PM as it gets. This line is under the "While alive" portion and I have no "While Dead" like Lynx has.

Violating post restrictions can have nasty results depending on the moderator and your role. These punishments range from losing your Night action to getting "warned" to getting modkilled. If warnings are used, it is not advised for them to be given publicly, as that confirms that the player has a post restriction.

Cool, Krystal has the post restriction. Guess what, she's not a rolecop. She's scum. You'll all soon find out. Lynch away and take note of my town reads and the why.

[fferyllt]

MOD: If you have to modkill for any reason, does the day end or continue?

This question can't be answered with a yes or no.

My philosophy is to make this choice based on which option negatively affects the modkilled player's team more than it negatively affects the opposing team.

Otherwise, seeking modkills could become strategic.

[Bookitty]

*Gives a thumbs-up.*
*Points at Faster Than Light, Policy Lynch, Catastrophe, BRantz.*

*Gives a thumbs-forty-five-degrees.*
*Points at CaskOfAmontillado, copper223.*

*Gives a thumbs-negative-forty-five-degrees.*
*Points at Medea the Alien, LynxKuroneko, Ghatokaca, Tiershift, Bookitty.*

*Gives a thumbs-down.*
*Points at Kthxbye.*

There's where she indicated a scumread on you, kthxbye, for the record.

[copper223]

I don't see a world were it is worth it for scum based on your claim, plus lynch away and lynch him/her tomorrow seems to be your standard reaction for getting scumread as you used the same approach with me yesterday.

Sorry but from my pov we lynch you and if you were telling the truth we take the trade tomorrow and go back and reread what you told us.

[Kthxbye]

Alright, fine, you all are confirmation bias'ed at this point and aren't going to even try and see anything but scum-kthxbye. Fine. Let's go this route then.

Most importantly, a role claim: I am Madeline Usher, and my "alive" ability is a one-shot rolecop, essentially. I get to see the living and dead abilities a player possesses. Last night I inspected kthxbye and found that he was a one-shot strongman (and that he was telling the truth about his Death ability). I'm not going to claim my Death ability, both because it's better left unclaimed and because it doesn't have any effect until lylo anyway.

First off, as you all have pointed out, Krystal lost her vote due to violating the post restriction. She has no voice and now no vote.
Secondly, nobody (not even the fake claimed role cop) denies my PR.
Thirdly, at a minimum, my enable gives both scum and town equal benefits. It's more beneficial to town, but that's my opinion.
Finally, Kyrstal will by lynched tomorrow if you choose to lynch me today. I swear by the MS gods that I'm going to flip exactly what I say.

I propose this:

Y'all keep me alive today like has been suggested/tossed around and lynch Kyrstal today. I know she's scum but you don't so I'm going to speak to this from your point of view.

At the very worst, you lynch a town that is mute and voteless and lynch the shit out of me tomorrow.

What really happens is you lynch scum today and the remaining scum have to figure out what to do with me since I'd be confirmed town.

What will really happen far outweighs the very worst. Lynch Krystal. It's logical.

[Kthxbye]

Actually, the worst case is that Krystal flips town because scum somehow messed with her or me last night and got lucky that she did what she did, though I don't see how this is possible outside of a modified framer to fit this game. Town her wouldn't come back with both the truth with a strongman result. I just want to be as transparent as possible and thought it might be a far fetched possibility where we lose two town due to some crazy scum PR that would be OP as fuck.

^I don't see this as even remotely probable, but it's MS and you never know.

[Kthxbye]

^The worst worst case scenario above would happen no matter who is lynched today so it shouldn't even factor into the equation and my proposition.

[Kthxbye]

And my break is over. I'm going to devote any further time I may have during my busy time to my other game. See you all Thursday.

At least TRY and think about this logically and without confirmation bias.

[Bookitty]

I prefer to lynch you today and then, if you flip scum, I will push for Cata's lynch. (So will copper, I believe, so THAT's happening no matter what.)

At the very worst, you lynch a town that is mute and voteless and lynch the shit out of me tomorrow.

If you were town, from your perspective this wouldn't be a possible outcome. I don't know what that means exactly, but it's not something that you should think possible. I don't know why you'd present it as an option given that you were willing to go one for one before.

If you flip town, we'll lynch Krystal. How's that?

EBWOP: Wow, you caught your own scumslip before I could. Nice

[Kthxbye]

Hey boo, I like you and I think you're town, but learn to fucking read.

I know she's scum but you don't so I'm going to speak to this

from your point of view

.

[copper223]

If Krystal just claimed to be 1-shot cop and that they have a guilty on you I might think about scum having a bus driver, but with the strongman ability claim while alive and the enabler claim when dead even that doesn't make sense, so to me one of you has to be scum.

[Bookitty]

Logically, if you believe that Krystal is scum, you have to believe that your power role was so terrifyingly awful to scum that they would be willing to give up a member of their team to take you out. Worse yet, that member of the team would lose their vote for the rest of the game just to take you out. Even WORSE, they would verify a part of your role while adding on another part to make you look bad.

I've had that role. Trust me. Scum wouldn't care about it enough to do what you're suggesting.

I want to lynch you first. I'm only waiting for a vote count to make sure I'm not hammering and cutting off discussion before everyone has had a chance to speak.

[copper223]

He is at 3 by my count (not factoring in Krystal)

[Bookitty]

Krystal doesn't count, as she said she wouldn't. There's a vote count right after her post and FTL is the only one on there.

VOTE: Kthxbye

[Kthxbye]

you forget the part where Krystal doesnt like her post restriction and doesn't care to play this game because of it.

It's my fault for claiming too early and giving scum an easy one for one fake claim.