Mini 1630: Edgar Allan Poe uPick GAME OVER!

[Catastrophe]

*Waves. Holds up a finger.*

Did they just miss this was not a hammer?????

Not how I read it. I feel like Krystal was trying to tell the mod they're still around.

--tool.

[copper223]

@Tool
That makes sense.

Ok since Reckoner doesn't need extra the time, I'm going to hammer if there are no objections in the next few hours.

[TierShift]

If ghatokaca is town there are grounds for a ban based on not playing to their wincon, so I will just assume they are scum.

Can you explain this?

[Catastrophe]

Well I'm working on going through ISOs right now. Given that FtL might vig us tonight, would you mind waiting for me to get done with those?

--tool.

[Nikanor]

@Tool
That makes sense.

Ok since Reckoner doesn't need extra the time, I'm going to hammer if there are no objections in the next few hours.

*Holds up a hand. Points at mouth.*

[copper223]

Can you explain this?

If he is town he is so anti-town that you can make a case he is playing against his wincon.

@Cat / Nika
Fair enough.

[Kthxbye]

nope. screw you guys.

VOTE: kthxbye

Enjoy being so damn wrong

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2.5

Sonnet to Science

Science! true daughter of Old Time thou art!
Who alterest all things with thy peering eyes.
Why preyest thou thus upon the poet's heart,
Vulture, whose wings are dull realities?
How should he love thee? or how deem thee wise,
Who wouldst not leave him in his wandering
To seek for treasure in the jewelled skies,
Albeit he soared with an undaunted wing?
Hast thou not dragged Diana from her car?
And driven the Hamadryad from the wood
To seek a shelter in some happier star?
Hast thou not torn the Naiad from her flood,
The Elfin from the green grass, and from me
The summer dream beneath the tamarind tree?

Kthxbye

(5): Faster Than Light, TierShift, BRantz, xRECKONERx, Kthxbye

Medea the Alien

(1): CaskOfAmontillado

Not Voting

(5): Krystal Bald, Medea the Alien, Ghatokaca, Catastrophe, copper223

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: February 4, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-02-03 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Kthxbye]

sigh...gotta quit trying to hammer from phone

UNVOTE:

[xRECKONERx]

That post was objectively bad regardless of the player so I don't see why it's rude, I am not offending him personally.

I specifically unvoted on Cat's request so that Reckoner here could catch up and that's what he comes up with days after? He then randomly votes basically admitting he doesn't know what he is doing, if this were a new slot I'd start screaming scum, so yea give me the better player (at least the one more invested in this game which is usually the same thing) back.

[xRECKONERx]

SOMEONE HAS A SOCIAL LIFE OUTSIDE THE GAME AND DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO SPEND 4-6 HOURS READING A GAME HE CROSS-REPLACED INTO

GOD FORBID!

[xRECKONERx]

On that note, I think I'll play the skim when I want to game from here on out, because I have negative motivation to bother reading up now. I'm sorry if that offends you User-With-Numbers-And-Letters-And-An-Anime-Avatar-#78498329!

[Kthxbye]

hey Reck, don't catch up, just take my word for it that Krystal is scum fake claiming and vote her. We have history man. And we've lol'd. I wouldn't lie to you bro (at least not this time)

[CaskOfAmontillado]

I'm sorry if that offends you User-With-Numbers-And-Letters-And-An-Anime-Avatar-#78498329!

[CaskOfAmontillado]

I swear every time I'm on here I see this F-16_Fighting_Falcon guy either has a yellow or green dot next to his name in site chat. What's keeping Ghato? Maybe I'm just crazy. :S

[Catastrophe]

This is tool.

I'll start off with this: After Tier posted his last thing about the while alive/while dead ability it finally clicked. Bookitty was saying that I was approaching Kthx's claim as though it were a "while dead" ability while she thought it was a "while alive" ability.

To be clear, her logic still makes absolutely no freaking sense. The role is the same regardless of whether it's a while alive ability or a while dead ability. The exact. Freaking. Same. And looking at it one way or another doesn't change whether the role itself is pro-town or pro-scum. While it's alive it helps town. While it's dead it helps scum.

The reason her case doesn't apply to me is that I never looked at the claim through the lens of being a "while alive" or "while dead" ability. I looked at the claim and thought "OK so when he's alive we get flips, when he's dead we lose them." It never occurred to me to think about where it would be listed in the role PM. I just thought of it in terms of what the role did.

Somehow, Bookitty came to the conclusion that the utility of the role changes depending on where it's listed in the role PM. I did not share this (objectively false) view, and in fact never thought about where it would be listed in the role PM, so I had no idea what she was even saying.

Anyway, here's my readslist after going through ISOs again. When I felt it unnecessary to go through a player's ISO, I simply listed my read on them. I don't explain the read on Kthx because he's been discussed ad nauseum and my read on him hasn't changed.

Just know that TSO hasn't looked at this and therefore it's entirely possible he disagrees with me.

Town

Spoiler: FtL

-Claimed vig who took a shot at Cask last night. While I don't understand how Cask not dying was ever supposed to signify Cask being scum, I also see no reason for scum to pull a move like FtL's. Doing so would eventually be a 1v1 and a confirmed scum death, and in that case why not go for fakeclaiming an actual investigative role instead of a vig?
-ESPECIALLY if it actually turns out that Krystal is lying about her result on Kthx. If that's the case, that would mean that two scum decided to 1v1 on the same day and I just don't buy that.

Spoiler: Bookitty/Reck

-Generally helpful and scumhunty D1.
-If Bookitty's slot is town, then she: thought of Kthx's power as being a "while alive" ability rather than a "while dead" ability and freaked the fuck out when she (mistakenly) thought that I had thought of the role as being the opposite, which it now has been revealed to be.
-If Bookitty's slot is scum, then she: should have already known whether it was a "while dead" or "while alive" ability, and therefore would have needed to assume the opposite in order to come to her (silly and misguided) view of Kthx's role.
-So yeah, actually I think I have to admit that I don't think this slot is scum. And I wanted it to be so badly. Thought I found a scumslip, even. But basically, in order for Bookitty to even make her ridiculous case on us I think she had to be thinking of things from a point of view where she didn't have information that scum would have.

Spoiler: Krystal

-It would be pretty dumb for scum to 1v1 on Kthx the way Krystal has.
-The post restriction has been confirmed by Krystal losing their vote, and the presence of such a post restriction heavily implies that Krystal has a valuable power role. If Krystal is scum and has such a valuable power role, why would she suicide like this?

Spoiler: BRantz

-Pretty much conftown in my book. It makes sense for town to have a JK with a vig and strongman in the game, and the fact that no player seems to be suspicious of BRantz since his claim pretty much means there are no counterclaims lurking in the shadows that would cast doubt on BRantz's claim.
-Also the lack of a kill on Cask pretty much confirms BRantz being JK.

Null-town

Spoiler: Cask

-Obviously the most important thing here is the claim. They've claimed even-night investigative and Krystal has suggested that town could have three investigative roles if each one was appropriately handicapped. Cask's handicap is being even-night, Krystal's is the post restriction and Lynx's was that he had to die in order for us to get anything. So I think it's possible we have all three, though I see no reason for the claim to be true just based on what role they claimed.
-Overall, this slot's behavior when FtL tried to get them lynched strikes me as supporting the investigative claim. There's no hesitation there, and they even say that FtL must be a rolecop because they're certain that scum has found them out and is now pulling a 1v1 to get them lynched.

Null

Spoiler: Purloined/Tier

-Nothing really stood out as Purloined.
-As Tier, I'll start with his own case for why he's town. Tier argues that he tried to draw the NK on day one by suggesting that town would get some awesome ability if whatever unspecified event happened. The key to this, in my view, is Tier's subsequent point that his role would be horrible balance if it were on the side of scum. Given the sheer number of town PRs we appear to have, this kind of makes sense. On the other hand, we don't really know what scum has right now except probably a strongman. So how are we supposed to know that it would be terrible for scum to have a temporary treestump? I tend to agree that it would be kind of weird for a scum player to be unkillable for at least the first day/night phase, I'm not sure that it would be impossible to give scum enough firepower to balance it out. I guess it makes sense that if ffery wanted to handicap scum she could do it in much more subtle ways, like making their power roles x-shot or even/odd night or something else that wouldn't be readily available knowledge to town. It's hard for me to say; I don't feel super comfortable doing setup spec and this is starting to get pretty hypothetical. The argument kind of makes sense to me but I just have some question marks that prevent it from being so solid an argument I just write Tier off as being town and move on.
-Other significant game events: Arguing that we shouldn't be on the Lynx wagon because we want to be (#523), which is kind of weird because it makes total sense for town (or scum, for that matter) to want to be on the wagon. Could be scum trying to make room for a partner to get onto the wagon to mess up the sensor result.
-Catching copper's "scumslip." In my gut this feels like a towny thing to do. I guess it just feels like it would take pretty clever scum to catch a fake scumslip, but I admit it's really not outside the realm of likelihood for scum to do this.
-Bringing up the possibility of keeping Kthx alive for full flips/pushing Kthx's lynch through uncertainty from other players: I could see both of these coming from either alignment.
-I guess Tier is kind of a mild townread for me but I still see ways this slot could be scum. I'm just worried about this slot because if Tier is scum then I think it would be pretty hard to show why.

Null-scum

Spoiler: copper

-Put in quite a bit of researching on D1, doing things like checking into meta pretty early for a lot of players. By no means a foolproof towntell, but I tend to think scum would be more likely to try to twist what a player is saying in the current game than try to find meta that should generally point to everybody in the town as being town.
-Gets into a weird argument with Cask toward the beginning of the game about the nature of Krystal's post restriction. Sticks to a clearly flawed argument, which I generally find to be scummy.
-Votes us for weird reasons, defends his points when scrutinized and then abandons the scumread on us as soon as TSO posts a readslist he agrees with. Kind of a weird trajectory and potentially scummy.
-Won't lie, I skimmed a lot of this ISO. It's pretty long :/
-Lots of garbled/weird logic throughout this game, like not seeing any way that scumKthx would claim early, assuming that there were exactly two townies on the Lynx wagon, assuming that because more than one scum might have managed to sneak onto the wagon that there's no way scum were lurking D1, etc. Bits and pieces could have scum motivation, like trying to get people to townread Kthx.
-Hopping onto Bookitty's bad case against us looks kind of like scummy opportunism, but fits in with the overall style of his logic in this game.
-Not sure what to think about his constant voting and unvoting of Kthx and his momentary switch to thinking that Krystal was the one lying based on the multiple fake self-hammers. Scum buddy trying to give his partner an easy out? Paranoid town?
-Overall I find myself more uneasy when looking at copper's slot after doing the ISO read-through. There's just a lot of question marks here -- times when his logic doesn't make sense, times when he seemed to chase things with conviction only to give them up without very good reasoning.

Spoiler: Medea

-The rejection of Policy's claim in Medea's first post (#65) seems like scum trying to look like they don't buy things easily, ie paranoid. It looks like they're trying to look paranoid rather than actually being paranoid because the premise upon their paranoia rests doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. Instead of looking at the claim itself they look at the way in which Policy claimed.
-The idea that they're fine not being on the Lynx wagon in #514 could be significant. If, for instance, Medea flips scum, then we can consider whether they were fine with this because scum was already slated to be on the Lynx wagon at that point. The people who were voting Lynx at the time were Boo, FtL, copper, Policy and BRantz.
-Their nonchalant reaction to Kthx's claim raises my hackles a bit but I can't think of any particular reason why this points to scum that can't be easily rebutted.
-I see nothing to make them look extremely towny, nor anything super scummy. From the few things that did jump out to me in the ISO, as well as through PoE, I find it entirely likely that they are scum.

Spoiler: Ghato

-While we can't be sure whether it's intentional or unintentional, #246 functions as a convenient excuse to not contribute much to the game D1 or D2.
-As has been said before, it would be weird for scumGhato to say that they would dead neighborize Lynx and then not do it. Even if they didn't, why not just pretend like they did and pass along some bullshit message from Lynx? Ghato says that the neighbor thread got locked and I guess we have to assume that some role out there did so either passively or actively. No way of looking at all the possibilities associated with the claim or the subsequent lack of utility and coming up with any way of determining alignment IMO.
-I also don't think that Ghato offering to neighborize Lynx as a failsafe to ensure that town would receive the result is necessarily towny. Again, scum with this ability could offer to do so and then pass along incorrect information.
-#711 is the weirdest post in this ISO and the main red flag making them lean scum for me. They seem to think that the mod's result was clearly saying there was exactly one scum on the Lynx lynch rather than "one or more." If there was more than one scum on the Lynx wagon, it would be very much in scum's best interests to try to convince town that there was only one scum on the wagon. Scum could have even discussed this at night. If there was exactly one scum on the wagon, this could have even been a slip from Ghato -- knowing that there was only one scum and thinking it silly when a towny was unsure.

Scum

Kthx

[Kthxbye]

Ima laugh so hard at you and your reads list once I'm gone...

I only hope you're actually vigged tonight so I can do it to your face in dead QT.

Why aren't you voting me?

[copper223]

SOMEONE HAS A SOCIAL LIFE OUTSIDE THE GAME AND DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO SPEND 4-6 HOURS READING A GAME HE CROSS-REPLACED INTO

GOD FORBID!

You replaced in and when you did you accepted you would try to play to your wincon, nobody forced you to join, people like you that not only screw games for other people but also throw a hissy fit when called out on it and try to imply other people don't have a social life because they keep to their commitments instead simply disgust me.

[Kthxbye]

I'm sitting here at L-2

[Kthxbye]

shuddap copper. You're lynching town when your gut is telling you not to. Both are equally bad plays.

why aren't you back to voting me?

[copper223]

I think you are overselling it again, plus are you comparing someone possibly making a mistake, and I was at least the only one to try and see if it would make sense for you not to be scum, with a random vote? GTFO.

[Catastrophe]

Copper, calm down. It takes time to catch up with 50 pages of gameplay.

I'm ready to vote Kthx, but I know he'll just self-hammer as soon as he's at L-1. Anybody else have stuff to say before the end of the day?

--tool.

[copper223]

That is not the point.

[Kthxbye]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Kthxbye]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz