Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[copper223]

@Aneninen
Have fun reading that after I flip. At least it means you are likely town, not that that helps much, I will scumread you on purpose from now on. If my teammate the Tean slot fake claims, lynch him tomorrow.

@Killa
I already claimed, Vettrock already softed (at least 3 players saw it) so if he is real he was already dead, you fishing for his role together with genius Aneninen ensured his death if anything, BBT is fake claiming.

So I just gave you 1 scumplayer, now town has to decide who to lynch, if you lynch me because apparently it's the safe play the only ones derping are the town voting here, but it's still ok, I can still give you 1 scum for it.

Your let's lynch Beast play does not guarentee anything of the sort and tonight Vettrock still dies and the SK has a strong incentive to kill me as well, so if we are both wrong about Beast we can pack up here.

[beastcharizard]

@Beast
Your reads don't make sense, I want you lynched.

So you just disagree with my reads? How does that make me scum?

[beastcharizard]

beast's consistent misspelling of copper's name

Spelling is not my strong point. Also, just realized it was copper like the penny and not cooper.

[copper223]

I don't disagree, they literally don't make sense because the support does not allow for them, otherwise an SK would not be in the game.

I will give you the benefit of being able to realize those reads are impossible if you genuinenly thought about it as town, hence you presenting that crap makes you likely scum just pulling out some convenient scumreads.

[beastcharizard]

You're scum-reading me? Since when? And why?

I guess you didn't read my reads list. I think at least one of you and copper are scum. I also have this tinfoil hat theory that you are copper are both scum but that really depends on what tean claims. Role wise if with there being a second kill it isn't possible for both you and copper to be lieing about your roles unless someone else is lying about theirs as well.

Also, you have some inconsistencies in what you are saying having to do with your role that I think Heartless pointed out.

[beastcharizard]

I don't disagree, they literally don't make sense because the support does not allow for them, otherwise an SK would not be in the game.

I will give you the benefit of being able to realize those reads are impossible if you genuinenly thought about it as town, hence you presenting that crap makes you likely scum just pulling out some convenient scumreads.

They make no sense to YOU. Keyword there is YOU.

Town:
Anen - I feel like what they say comes from a town POV. I just like them. You could chalk this up to gut I guess.
Mastin - I feel like mastin has this ego that gets in her way. It isn't an undeserved ego persay but it still gets in her way. She reminds me of when she defended me for fake claiming the same thing as my scum partner in a large theme recently.
Vettrock - Claim
Killa - They don't shut up about wanting to lynch me. It doesn't feel like a push for a mislynch from scum because scum would eventually give up and be like: "Fuck it, beast isn't happening so lets find someone else." Also, scum would want to keep me alive because I was behind and useless.

Null:
Wicked - I don't really remember anything about them.
Tean - I don't know anything about them.

Scum:
Cooper - If any PR is scum it is you. I don't see any town motivation from this slot.
Heartless - Already said my case about them reminding me of that other game.
BBT - Kind of explained this but they have inconsistencies with their claim and actions.

[beastcharizard]

So, Beast, are you MonkeyMan?!!? If so, I'll need to think about this information.

Yes, that is my alt, MonkeyMan. I actually felt it was obvious it was my alt. Plenty of people have figured it out. I had to tell Jingle about it though. Marquis figured it out himself.

[Heartless]

have you just completely given up on reading or what?

[beastcharizard]

No, I have read and I like my reads. Even more so now than I did before. Especially my read on you.

[Heartless]

even though it's based on multiple false premises?

yeah, ok

[copper223]

BBT is trying so hard to get me to hammer so you don't change your mind and see how scummy he is it's not even funny.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're not hammering then?

[copper223]

There isn't much of a difference as far as I can tell but the fact you want it so badly means I probably don't want to help you along.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nothing to do with you being scum then?

[copper223]

Nope, I really am vengeful.

[Wickedestjr]

Doing some VCA, and noticed this; now, you have to believe that I am telling the truth about being hider and that Killa is conf town.

davesaz

(7) -

Tean Samargo

, Mastin2,

Heartless

, beastcharizard, Wickedestjr, vettrock,

copper223

copper223 (3) -

BlueBloodedToffee, eyestott

beastcharizard (1) -

killapenwin

Tean Samargo (2) - Aneninen,

dodgy56

mastin2 (1) -

davesaz

Look how hard scum had to push to secure a mislynch. All the 'confirmed townies' are off the dave wagon.

Mastin, Wicked and Vettrock; look at this VC and tell me what you think.

I am inclined to think that all the scum (SK included) were on that bandwagon. So, even though I don't think the team is Tean-Heartless-copper, this VCA certainly does not oppose your theory. Given that I know I am town and strongly believe vettrock is town, this vote count indicates that copper is mafia (the alternative is that the mafia were three of the first four votes, or I am wrong on a town read, both of which I doubt).

If these reads are accurate, good luck to scum and the SK, I totally did not enjoy being part of this town.

Why not? (AtE?)


Aneninen has been promoted to strong town. His conviction in his ideas looks very genuine.

[copper223]

Lol cause you suck bro.

[copper223]

I want a poll from each of you about who I should shoot, between the PR's and someone else if you think it would be better (if so add why).

Please do this by the way.

[beastcharizard]

even though it's based on multiple false premises?

yeah, ok

You are just saying I am wrong. That is all you are doing. Nothing more nothing less. Just saying: "Nope, you are wrong." Can you say something else?

[beastcharizard]

Wicked can be town now.

[vettrock]

IIPHKTT

Cooper: Vengeful
BBT: Hide
Vettrock: 1-shot Tracker
Beast: VT
Mastin: VT
Heartless: VT
Anen: VT
Killa: VT
Wicked:
Tean:

This is where I am at. After the last two claims I might introduce a tin-foil hat theory for the scum team.

Town:
Anen
Mastin
Vettrock
Killa

Null:
Wicked
Tean

Scum:
Cooper
Heartless
BBT

Those are my reads. No this isn't my tin-foil hat scum team and one of the nulls is probably SK.

If there are only two T's, there is no serial killer, therefore one of the claims has to be lying, or one of the VT's is a PR and there is only one T.

[beastcharizard]

We still have Tean to claim.

[Heartless]

even though it's based on multiple false premises?

yeah, ok

You are just saying I am wrong. That is all you are doing. Nothing more nothing less. Just saying: "Nope, you are wrong." Can you say something else?

He's saying much more, but hey we can't let facts get in the way of a good story now can we?

There are quite a few things that make copper's claim a lot more believable than BBT's: the role claimed, the timing of the claim, and the behavior of the wagons during massclaim.

Spoiler:

scum don't claim vengeful. they don't claim supersaint.
how you deal with the claim: you leave them around until lylo then policy lynch them if they're still there. that's what defeats a scum fakeclaim of vengeful.
when scum claim things, they claim things that will DETER their lynch. like investigatives or protectives (or a sorrowful VT claim that tugs at the heartstrings). they want to make town feel like they're taking a gamble in lynching them. a vengeful or supersaint claim won't create the same effect.

I remember this quote from another game and it's why I'm a lot more inclined to believe the vengeful claim than the hider claim. Hider is an

extremely

powerful role and it's a lot more of a lynch deterrent than vengeful is, not to mention that hider is impossible to obtain bulletproof confirmation for in this setup in the absence of a role cop. A quick look at how the vote count is shaping up will also tell us quite a bit about copper:

BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Heartless
Heartless (1) - beastcharizard
copper223 (5) - mastin2, vettrock, Wickedestjr, BlueBloodedToffee, Aneninen
beastcharizard (1) - killapenwin

Not Voting: Tean Samargo, copper223

From this, I think it's very likely copper isn't mafia. Since neither BBT nor vettrock's claims are watertight, I would have to think copper's teammates would be making their move on BBT or vettrock. With all the plausible deniability at play, there's no strategic reason to bus. An SK especially would seem to deter bussing as well. I can't imagine copper would make this kind of play as SK either. Locking himself into a claim unnecessarily on Day 1 is sub-optimal play and goes against the kind of strategic mindset I know copper has.

I think Anti's latest theory is good. Beast is just repeating some drivel about meta while holding a nonsensical theory about both BBT and copper being scum. He also has yet to follow through on this supposed elaborate gambit from Day 1. And yes, Anti, I will kill you if mastin is scum. I think there's a good chance she is and I think she's telling you what you want to hear because she's afraid of you.

[beastcharizard]

What do you mean follow through on my gambit? I lynched the only person that I felt fell for the gambit.

You are the SK again TTH.

[Heartless]

Oh, alright. For a second there I though you were changing your story again... wait a minute.

Tell me, did we kill eyestott or dodgy?