Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Titus]

Anen, take a position.

Do you think copper is scum?
If town, who do you think hr should vig? It is simple.

[Aneninen]

Let's post about Vettrock.

My original case was about his posts around 1198. That vote for Mastin was terrible and as far as I remember it felt like that he had been sheeping my Mastin-case.
The main problem my former case now is that I assumed a Copper/Vettrock team there. Well, that

is

a possibility but only

one

possibility – and it leads us back to Copper.
As for his PR-hints: there's NOTHING there about being a 1-shot. (According to the Setup, claiming a 1-shot is much riskier than a Full Tracker, because the 1-shot can be counter-claimed easily.)

However, Vettrock was against the massclaim which is a towntell for me. Also his recent posts are town-ish.

I don't really understand why we all townread Vettrock. Maybe because at that point his claim indeed seemed to be genuine, especially since he was eventually forced to claim (by Copper). So, it's possible that he's scum if one of the PR-claims is fake – and if two of them are fake, both Vettrock and Copper may be scum. (I don't think Vettrock and BBT are scums together. Titus has a free pass Today, so we can still examine the possibility of a Titus/Vettrock team Tomorrow in case of no scumflip 'till then.)

In short, Vettrock is a ??? now. If we lynched him and he flipped scum I'd say, Copper is scum too and BBT is most probably town. If he flipped town, we'd "only" lose a 1-shot Tracker (which might be not as bad as losing a Hider or a Vengeful...?)


So far, still Copper seems to be the scummiest, therefore the best lynch. Maybe I'm overrating the risk of it.
However, I'd never lynch his slot as long as it's empty.

________

I'll examine others as well. But not today. I'm too tired to think now. (If there are errors in my post, please, point them out.)

[Aneninen]

I've already had my position.
He's the scummiest. Not only because of the "at least one of the claims is fake" thing but also scummy in itself. (Check my post about him.)
If he's town (which I don't believe), BBT seems to be the best Vengekill, but having re-examined all three of them, I think we should consider Vettrock too. BUT, since I strongly dislike that BBT wants to lynch the empty Copper-slot, I'm more for the BBT-Vengekill now.

But I'd never lynch an empty slot and I don't think it's a good idea to vote about the fate of his slot at all. Who on Gods' Green Earth would replace into a slot like that?


By the way, have I read it right? Are you a Mollie-alt?

[Titus]

Not a mollie alt.

Why does it matter if the Cooper slot is empty? It claimed. We have info.

[Heartless]

If copper is indeed vengeful, I definitely think he should shoot BBT. I think we should be lynching BBT first anyway and I've already gone over why and no one seems to have much of a solid argument against it. Post 1497

I don't really understand why we all townread Vettrock.

I'll do this later tonight.

[beastcharizard]

Why does it matter if the Cooper slot is empty?

Because if town it has to shoot someone. Can't shoot someone without someone to submit the action.

[vettrock]

Why does it matter if the Cooper slot is empty?

Because if town it has to shoot someone. Can't shoot someone without someone to submit the action.

@Mod. If we lynch copper, do we wait for the replacement to come in and select who to shoot if he is vengeful?

[Heartless]

/sigh

let's see , hosut i make nother bbt post or should i just let drusilla do it?

eh i'll let her do it

fuck it

also, anen the mollie alt hink was a joke. i met both mollie and titus in rl and i acn sassure you they're too differnt people

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, your 1679 was very dumb.

Please, don't call my posts dumb. I have thought this through and think it is worth questioning you on this.

First of all, you just picked a small part out of a long post where I tried to summarize ALL of the possibilities. I simply included that point amongst others. Also, even I admitted later that my ideas there had been wrong.

All of this is irrelevant to my point. My response to the important bit;

Plus, I mentioned "unvote", not "townreading him". I don't think if he had changed his fake-claim to another fake-claim, that would have saved him later.

It doesn't matter if you didn't mention town reading him. It also doesn't matter if the claim change wouldn't have saved him later - you seem to think it would have saved him today. That's enough motivation for copper if he's scum. ALSO, I would like to point out that vigilante is not a testable role in this potentially crazy setup.

And finally, he refused even my assumption that he'd ever fake-claim as a townie.

This is also irrelevant to my point.

Next part of your post;

I know it's a bit like "outguessing the mod" but I think that Copper/BBT fight was a scum-vs-town fight because Copper got force-replaced and BBT got warned. If both of them were scum or town, I don't think they would have gotten a different treatment. (Or it's also possible that Copper was much ruder? I'm a bit insensitive to flame-wars, I've seen much worse things before, ending up with violating ...much serious things.)

I think this type of argument is valid but only when modkills are involved. Modkills affect the game, ejections... not so much. Given that Jackal only replaced copper I am inclined to believe that he was unbiased in his decision. For what it's worth, I agree with his decision and probably would have done the same thing if I were the mod.

[Wickedestjr]

So much theory spec...

Bold please

Lynch Cooper, yes or no.
who should cooper take if vengeful?

I will answer this sometime in the next day or two.

[Wickedestjr]

As for his PR-hints: there's NOTHING there about being a 1-shot. (According to the Setup, claiming a 1-shot is much riskier than a Full Tracker, because the 1-shot can be counter-claimed easily.)

Anen, the PR-hints were ENTIRELY about being a 1-shot. I dislike explaining for others, but I am even more frustrated by the negative attention he's still getting considering he is almost certainly town - so I am going to explain his crumbs. His breadcrumbs were statements from him saying that he had secret reason to believe eyestott was town. Now, look at the investigative section of this setup;

Investigation Roles
I = Tracker
II = Tracker, 1-Shot Tracker
III = Tracker, Tracker
IIII = Tracker, Tracker, 1-Shot Tracker
IIIII = Tracker, Tracker, Tracker, 1-Shot Tracker

Note this: II has a 21% chance and III has a significantly lower 6.2% chance. If vettrock was a tracker, would he say "eyestott is very likely town" when, with a 6% chance, it's actually much more likely eyestott's lying in that case? No, he would not. Now, if vettrock was a 1-shot tracker, would he say "eyestott is very likely town"? YES - if he is a 1-shot tracker, then he knew there had to be a full shot tracker in the game and eyestott was uncc'd - that's a 100% guarantee from his perspective and makes much more sense from mine.

[Jackal711]

Replacement Found!
Teapot replace copper223

[Jackal711]

I am going to allow a few days for our replacement to catch up.

Deadline is set for Sunday, February 8th at 12pm PST which is in (expired on 2015-02-08 12:00:00)

[Teapot]

Hi guys, what's the read on my slot and can someone sum up the game so far?
Meanwhile I'll catch up.

[Teapot]

Well, the situation looks grimm. Tracker and Jail-Keeper killed night-1.

[Teapot]

Has there been as mass-claim yet or not? I'm at page 12 so far.

[Wickedestjr]

Yes, there has been a mass claim, but we need your role to claim. Please claim now.

[Teapot]

Quote the posts or page so I know you're not scum fishing or town reaction testing.
BBT could be scum, however page 12 an stuff so this can all change.

[Teapot]

Town reaction test is actually good but I don't just want to say my role if others haven't.

[Wickedestjr]

Hi guys, what's the read on my slot and can someone sum up the game so far?
Meanwhile I'll catch up.

A lot of people think you are scum (not sure anybody town reads you).

Not sure what you want summarized, if you're reading the thread anyway, but here ya go;
-dave wagon formed early day 1, he claimed VT prematurely.
-Attention switched to eyestott who claimed tracker.
-Pressure switched back to dave a few days before deadline, and he was lynched.
-eyestott and dodgy died during the night.
-vettrock was forced to claim, his bread crumbs were noticed.
-BBT claimed.
-copper started getting pressured.
-We decided to mass claim.

Everyone has claimed except you

, I can tell you the claims once you have.
-BBT and copper got in a f-bomby argument. copper was ejected for his role in this conflict.
-Now we are here, still considering your lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

There are 10 of us alive, unless I see a vig claim after this post I will assume 6 are town, 3 are scum and 1 is an SK.

If we mislynch, tomorrow as a worst case we have a Lylo with 3 townies where the decider is the SK vote, this scenario is basically unwinnable for town, so I think we should massclaim today.

[Wickedestjr]

Caught up.

Still think we should have reaction tested Tean's replacement, but it's too late now.

I am a VT.

Thoughts coming

My claim.


Enough proof?

[Teapot]

Ah, ok.
I understand why he wouldn't want to claim however it seems best for the town's interest. I'm a vengeful, this would be why copper wouldn't want to claim.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, thank you. He HAD actually claimed. I was just testing you. I was kind of hoping you would claim something else... You are either town or scum that skimmed the recent pages AND/OR copper's iso.

Welcome to the game!

[Teapot]

Anway, I believe you are town from play so far. Shame my two town reads were killed off.