Open 587 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[Albert B. Rampage]

Right now, only vettrock would be safe from my hypothetical vig kill. Everyone else is fair game.

[Wisdom]

Vote Count 1.11

Albert B. Rampage (5)

-

pisskop, Astinus, vettrock, Teapot, BBMolla

Teapot (3)

-

texcat, Morgan, Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting:

theslimer3, TheCow, Sup-Zero, archaebob

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2015-02-14 21:36:32).

[Sup-Zero]

Right now, only vettrock would be safe from my hypothetical vig kill. Everyone else is fair game.

You have no other townreads on anyone or is this only in regards to the people on your wagon?

[Albert B. Rampage]

On my wagon

[BBmolla]

Unless I take notice of something that convinced me someone is scum. But since that hasn't happened this game yet, do you really want to trust me with the kill?

Unvote, vote Teapot

This post only makes my

vote

harder

[Teapot]

I must ask you, I may be scummy to you, however am I worse than ABR? I suggest you vote him and join me for now, lets clear away a publicly held read. Lets face it, if ABR flips scum your read on me probaly will change slightly, if he flips town you may proceed to doubt me.
I honestly think that scum are redirecting to me, ABR's death will prove this. So if ABR flips town, we'll have 2 very town players; Me and Vett.

What's the better option?

>if ABR flips town you may doubt me
>if ABR flips town I will be one of two very towny players

I

cannot

believe this is an actual post.

VOTE: Teapot

Also, if you're going to townread someone for something you can't legally state in the thread, then don't bring it up. Either you're bending the rules or trying to get out of explaining a read on someone you, as scum, would already know is town.

If ABR flips scum I'm town*

[Teapot]

Unless I take notice of something that convinced me someone is scum. But since that hasn't happened this game yet, do you really want to trust me with the kill?

Unvote, vote Teapot

This post only makes my

vote

harder

Yeah, BB, I've been on here for a while.

[BBmolla]

Well then I don't know what to think of you

*shrug*

I'll look at you later then with that in mind

[Teapot]

Phantom quote.

Anyway, ABR, you also said that in your scum game with texcat an you flipped traitor. You giving a hole lot of WIFOM however I'm not going to trust your self-meta one bit. You said Astinus is likely scum with me, why won't you shoot him?

[archaebob]

TheCow and slimer need to place votes.

[vettrock]

Phantom quote.

Anyway, ABR, you also said that in your scum game with texcat an you flipped traitor. You giving a hole lot of WIFOM however I'm not going to trust your self-meta one bit. You said Astinus is likely scum with me, why won't you shoot him?

One of the things that stands out about ABR for me is it seems he is intentionally mudding the waters to make it unclear if he is town or scum. In some games as town you may want to appear a little scummy to protect a power role, but this is a open setup. Everyone is a D1 vengeful (unless you are scum of course).

I agree slimer and Cow need to put down a vote. Choose who you think is scummiest.

[Albert B. Rampage]

How am I intentionally doing that?

[vettrock]

Sorry, however I'm not basing it off meta. Meta is something than can support a read, it should never be used as the foundation of one. As people change or can manipulate it, it's not a trustworthy tool. However it does do a good job of making something more probable, I'm mostly voting ABR off the fact he's posting no content and he's jumped on all the main-wagons nakedly. The fact he's done this before as scum isn't the basis of my reasoning, it on it's own is scum play.
However there is meta of it, it may be unrealiable, ABR has manipulated meta very well before. However due to the fact we've seen his play can be like this as scum it just supports the case on him. However little. Astinus, if you believe he could be scum, that means I'm either town or scum bussing. Which is more likely day 1?
Someone's got to put him up at L1 at some point; this time it happened to be me. We can lynch him to see if he's scum, as lets face it, we all sometimes are wrong. Hence I'm asking for ABR's target if he truely is town, it makes me nervous that someone who's posted so little content will have the power to lynch someone instantly. He's been on all the wagons making it seem he doesn't have specific reads, he also continues to ignore my questions.

If anyone thinks my vote is opportunistic, how would that fit into a situation where he's scum? It likely wouldn't, unless I'm hard bussing. It would otherwise indicate you think he's town, so I'm going to ask why? Why do you think he's town?

So much WIFOM.

So I went back and read your ISO, and I don't see it as much looking with a fresh eye. The above two posts, are what gave me that idea, but I do think it was a bit of a stretch. I would have expected some kind of response to Teapot, but your only reply was WIFROM. I think it is generally the go ahead and lynch me so I can take the vig shot attitude. If you are town, unless you think your read is better than everyone else, you vig shot wouldn't be more accurate than anyone else, and town would be better off lynching scum rather than town. If town, I expect people to act like town. I would expect scum to try and act like town, as well, and it seems like you are trying to act scummy to throw everyone off, as we don't know if you are actual scum, or you just want the vig shot. The "throw everyone off" part is where I get the "mudding the waters" part, although like I said, I don't see it in your ISO as much as I expected it from reading the game as it progressed.

[Albert B. Rampage]

you vig shot wouldn't be more accurate than anyone else, and town would be better off lynching scum rather than town.

Exactly, so why would you want to lynch me?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't have a solid grasp on this game yet. I'm reading, thinking, and it will take time.

[vettrock]

you vig shot wouldn't be more accurate than anyone else, and town would be better off lynching scum rather than town.

Exactly, so why would you want to lynch me?

Because I still think it is more likely that you are scum than town. You cut out the IF part. It is an important word.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not scum. Why do you have tunnel vision on me? How is it more likely that I'm scum than anyone else in the game?

[Teapot]

I don't have a solid grasp on this game yet. I'm reading, thinking, and it will take time.

You've got until the deadline, please don't lie that it takes time. I've seen you tunnel and push someone in 60+ page games as a replacement.

[Teapot]

After a few days after you replaced in.

[archaebob]

@ Albert -

The self-vote was really bad, dude. Vettrock is spot on with his "muddying the waters" point. There is absolutely no game theoretic reason why you would want to be lynched if you are town. The vig kill is at best an imperfect remedy to a mislynch - it's not something to be sought after. But you already know that. You dared town to lynch you. You think your meta is unreadable and intimidating enough to make this stuff just roll off of you. You can just pull out of the nose dive at the last second, right? Just start putting in the effort at the last second and then everything will be fine. Nobody wants to lynch town-Rampage. He should get some leeway. He always does this at the start of games anyways. No way scum would be this brazen. And of course if the wagon

does

evaporate and you

do

get away with it then once the game is over it will only help to perpetuate how unreadable and intimidating your meta is, right? Pretty neat.

You're a smart guy. You've been around forever. You're good at staring down death. You've earned some leeway. But your brand of extreme independence can only work when the behavior, overall, is

town

. You can't violate all the town norms and

also

be scummy and still expect immunity. Some town norms are there for good reasons: you're not supposed to vote for lynches that you think will hit town (including your own), you aren't supposed to lurk and post no real reads and no real content, you aren't supposed to wagon hop nakedly without

any

follow up pressure or substantiation, and you aren't supposed to make statements that are deliberately and unnecessarily confusing to other players. Pick three out of four of those to ignore and maybe you can get away with it. If it's a low-powered town. If it's D1. If your naked, unexplained votes are aggressive and original enough to tell their own story. But you can't break all of the norms at once, and do

nothing

. Town has no reason to behave that way. It can't become acceptable scum play.

I think you're scum. I think you got cocky. Or bored. Or both. I think you calculated that D1 wagons derail easily enough, and that the best play was to do nothing and give as little as possible and get through it on raw bravado.

[Teapot]

Vote him an put him at L1

[Teapot]

And*

[archaebob]

TheCow and slimer need to place votes.

[BBmolla]

Let's just no lynch till Albert has reads.

[TheCow]

Vote Teapot

After all of the talk between the two, I believe that ARB is a Townie who wants control of that night one venge kill, in order to kill who they thing is Scum. I'll be voting Tea instead, for all of the reasons mentioned previously, committing to this course of action, for now.