Theme Test Market

[Zindaras]

Of your ideas so far, Adel, I like Cold War the most. You really need to host that. >.>

[Nightson]

Cold War mafia sounds wonderful, but it also sounds very complex. I'd definitely not allow very new players into the game and I'd have a pregame period before people got roles for answering questions.

[Adel]

I think that is an excellent suggestion Nightson. I want to co-mod it with a much more experienced Mod as well. Any takers?

[Metatron]

I'm working on an idea for a 30 player Death Note Mafia.

[JDodge]

Rumors Mafia

All players may send one message to any other player each night; the twist being that the mafia can choose one player each night whose message will be sent to

all

players, making the exchange of somewhat sensitive info risky.

Does it sound too horribly broken? Has it been done before?

[Shanba]

It sounds fairly similar to communique mafia which is currently being run (the main gimmick of which is that playrs can send communiques to each other).

[JDodge]

Ah. I thought I'd heard of the general concept somewhere before.

[Mokina]

Dæmon Mafia

For Greeks and Romans, dæmons ("replete with knowledge", "divine power", "fate" or "god") were not necessarily evil. Socrates claimed to have a daimonion, a small daemon, that warned him against mistakes but never told him what to do or coerced him into following it. He claimed that his daemon exhibited greater accuracy than any of the forms of divination practised at the time. The Hellenistic Greeks divided daemons into good and evil categories: Eudaemons (also called Kalodaemons) and Kakodaemons, respectively. Eudaemons resembled the Abrahamic idea of the guardian angel; they watched over mortals to help keep them out of trouble. (Thus eudaemonia, originally the state of having a eudaemon, came to mean "well-being" or "happiness".) A comparable Roman genius accompanied a person or protected and haunted a place (genius loci).

24 players
12 are ICs
12 are raw newbies (less than 200 posts)

Only newbies can vote.
Each IC is a dæmon secretly tied to a specific newbie
If a newbie dies his dæmon dies as well
newbies have roles, dæmons do not
each newbie/dæmon pair is able to PM at night
each dæmon receives a copy of his newbie's role PM at the beginning of the game
dæmons have a post restriction so that they can only post in

italics

dæmons cannot be targeted by any role, lynched, or NK'd

all players know which dæmon is tied to which newbie

In terms of all other mechanics this will be a typical mafia game.

This idea sounds really, really good as a mentoring tool for new players. The mod could even lower that number to 7 daemons and 7 newbies and run it like the games in the Newbie forum (4-possibility basic setup, etc).

The only flaw I see is finding enough ICs willing to participate.

[Guardian]

^
If enough ICs could be found... well, this sounds good. But if we had that many ICs, why not just have 4-3 Newbie games? It is a very interesting idea, at the least!

[Mokina]

^
If enough ICs could be found... well, this sounds good. But if we had that many ICs, why not just have 4-3 Newbie games? It is a very interesting idea, at the least!

The issue with normal newbie games (from a newbie's perspective) is that we have no reason to trust day advice from ICs. They've got roles, just like anyone else.

Under this system, the only goal of an IC is to not die (which is directly linked to the success of his/her protege). While this does place a bit of a burden on experienced players, it's perfect for teaching new players to make smart decisions... there's no ulterior motive involved.

[JDodge]

Yeah, but what motive is there for the IC to even play? They can't really

do

anything...

[NabakovNabakov]

Daemon mafia could be an awesome game (a bit more complex than my puppet idea) for learning, but it could be an awesomely tricky game if you give the Daemons ulterior motives. Daemons would either win with the mafia or with the town, but it isn't always the same as their partner, and their partner doesn't know which one they are. I'm just afraid it might mess with the poor newbs a bit too much.

For the sake of clarity:

Puppet Mafia

12 players, all newbie
12 experienced "puppetmasters"

Newbies are put into a standard 12 player mini, but each is tied to one of the puppetmasters (or "mentors" if you want to be sappy). The pairs are encouraged to talk via PM or AIM during Day, Night, whatever. The newbies can post all they want, puppetmasters can read, but not post. Puppetmasters win/die with their newbies. Puppetmasters can be public or secret. You could even set up a sister thread for them to trash talk each other in.

[Mokina]

Daemon mafia could be an awesome game (a bit more complex than my puppet idea) for learning, but it could be an awesomely tricky game if you give the Daemons ulterior motives. Daemons would either win with the mafia or with the town, but it isn't always the same as their partner, and their partner doesn't know which one they are. I'm just afraid it might mess with the poor newbs a bit too much.

For the sake of clarity:

Puppet Mafia

12 players, all newbie
12 experienced "puppetmasters"

Newbies are put into a standard 12 player mini, but each is tied to one of the puppetmasters (or "mentors" if you want to be sappy). The pairs are encouraged to talk via PM or AIM during Day, Night, whatever. The newbies can post all they want, puppetmasters can read, but not post. Puppetmasters win/die with their newbies. Puppetmasters can be public or secret. You could even set up a sister thread for them to trash talk each other in.

That makes a lot more sense... especially with public puppetmasters.

[Thok]

Basically, NabakovNabakov is suggesting a variant on Two Headed Mafia. This will only work if heads talk with each other consistently.

[NabakovNabakov]

Kind of, except only one head can talk. I think Adel's is more like that in that the players are paired and can both participate. We both got our inspiration from her mentoring thread (at least, that's where I got mine).

I think that Puppet Mafia should stay more of a concept, because I'm not sure if it would be right to make a game where the stated purpose is to use newbies as puppets. Daemon mafia is probably a little bit better in that respect.

[Mokina]

You might as well call this version "daemon mafia". The game mechanics are the same whether the IC is a mentor or a dictator. You'd just have to make sure the game was presented as a learning experience rather than a puppet show.

[JDodge]

What if you ran two simultaneous games? One for the newbies, and one for the ICs?

Allow communication on both games, which allows the ICs to actually play, as well as (aside from the above) allows the newbies to watch a game with more experienced players, and learn some of the more subtle things for themselves.

[stark]

Would lynches be synchronized? Like if an IC were lynched in one game, would the newer player be on his own in the other game, or would they both die? Or would one game be reliant on the lynches of the other, and the other game reliant on the nightchoices of the first?

[Albert B. Rampage]

What if the ICs had the same role as their puppet newbie ?

[Mokina]

Lots of suggestions! How about this...

Mentors/Apprentices Mafia

12 Newbie Players

12 Inexperience-Challenged Players

IC Players play in one game, while newbies play in another. Lynches aren't synchronized and the two games are mostly independent.
Roles are linked... that is, a "mentor" and an "apprentice" have the same role and can PM at any time, even if one has died.
The other players will not know which mentor was tied to which newbie until both games have ended.

A more experienced player might point out an interesting situation in his/her own game, but ultimately the ICs don't have any direct effect over the results of the newbie game (and vice-versa). Other than that, the two games are standard 12-player with basic roles.

Any thoughts?

[NabakovNabakov]

I could see lynches being synchronized, but trying to mix and match like the second idea would probably break the game apart. But I could totally see a parallel universes mafia. It wouldn't even have to be newbie and IC.

Parallel Universe Mafia:

24 players, 12 in each thread/game
No need for Newbies v. IC's. In fact, experience would probably be needed to handle two threads at once.

Each player is linked up with another player in the alternate thread. They may communicate at night or during the day. Each game would have the same 12 player setup (nothing too complex) and the linked players would all have the same roles. Nobody knows who is linked to who in each thread. Day ends immediately after a player has been lynched in either thread, and both the player and the player they're linked to die.

Now it's the night where things get complex. Because of the rule of all actions on one person effecting their partner, you can't have night choices going on in both threads or the game would end too quickly. I figure that the thread that

didn't

lynch gets to make night choices. People in standard night communicaiton roles (mafia, masons, lovers etc.) may communicate with their partners in their thread, and their partner in the other thread, but not their partner's partners. All actions but investigations would work the same way. If a cop investigates somebody they learn their guilt/innocence

and

who they're paired with in the other thread. (or there could be a special cop for that)

This brings up some interesting ideas for new roles.

-Partner cop
-Cross-voter: A player who may vote for somebody in the other thread, causing an unexpected lynch.
-Shifter: A pair of players with a one-shot ability to switch threads

[JDodge]

Would lynches be synchronized? Like if an IC were lynched in one game, would the newer player be on his own in the other game, or would they both die? Or would one game be reliant on the lynches of the other, and the other game reliant on the nightchoices of the first?

They would (technically) be independent, and communication would be allowed no matter what.

Also, I love Nabakov's idea.

[Guardian]

Someone -- two people -- need to mod parallel universe mafia, right quick.

I would be willing, if I am allowed. This idea is legit!

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, "parrellel universe mafia" does sound like a great idea. Seems like it'd be harder then usual for scum to win, as they've basically got double the chances of making mistakes that get them lynched in both universes, and you can have people confirmed innocent and the scum won't know who until the claimed, so whoever runs that needs to make sure they don't power up the town too much.

[Mr. Flay]

While all of these ideas sound fascinating, they've really wandered far away from anything that would be a teaching tool for newbies. As long as they're not intended for that anymore, carry on...

There's no reason to distrust most Day advice from ICs even if they

are

scum. Only an incompetent will give you blatantly illogical/bad advice, and learning how to pick up on the subtle stuff is not what we expect Newbie Games to do.