We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[vonflare]

Laughing at their tears and suffering, the High Priest unfurled his Trouser God from beneath his flowing robes. He knew beyond all doubt that all the precious little children were just afraid of having their scumminess exposed. His godly seed stirred in his loins like his stomach rumbling, and he felt the need to spray it on vonflare, who would bend beneath its considerable weight in supplication.

Please, could someone nightkill him.

[vonflare]

26 players.

I hope there's a lot of nightkills....

Even though Von later justifies this as a "joke," this is still extremely strange to me. Who says these kinds of things? Assuming town greatly outnumber scum/SKs, more town are likely to die N1 than scum/tp, so why do you want a lot of deaths? Why do you want a high chance of dying?

As i said before, I said that becuase there are so many players and theres a lot to keep track of. it was a joke.

And even if I were just Townie or a different role, I would say in my experience that Neighbors claiming is usually for more of a town than scum benefit. It's information that scum potentially has access to from the start, while the rest of town don't, so it evens the playing field even if only by a small amount.

This post makes absolutely no sense.

How would scum have access to that information?

How does that info help town?

How would that even the playing field?

What does "even if I was a different role..." That's setting up to change your claim.

Fos: ice

While I agree that the whole, "Oh scum might already know this" is bullshit, I still don't get why:
1) You FoS Ice without voting for them.
2) Say that he's setting up for a role claim change later on down the line, which likewise makes no sense.

1) maybe look at the post that is

immedietly after the one you quoted.

thx.
2) It made sense to me at the time.

@Boon
You are not getting away with your VI routine this game as you use it when you are scum as well. Oranje's vote may well be badly motivated since I am also not a fan of PL's, but why does that mean he is scum?

How come you decided to grace us with your august presence so many pages into the game?

@All
I'd love to see your scumreads and why you think they are scum at this point.

@copper:

ICE reeks of third-party. His claim and blatant disregard for teamwork makes him a candidate for SK. If he isn't 3rd party, he's prob town. Survivor maybe? I can't see him as mafia.

Oranje seems mafia, bc his whole purpose in this thread is directing attention at ice without real reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a lyncher too.

What is third-party about ice? What you described was what a scum is - someone working against the towns teamwork. I also don't get what's necessarily scummy about his claim.

Why do you think oranje is scum for pushing on ice when even you yourself doubt ice's town alignment? What sense does that make?

1) He seemed 3rd party at the time, becuase of his claim and the way he was acting.
2) So your saying Mafia wouldnt want to lynch an SK? becuase im pretty sure thats good for the mafia.

VOTE: oranje

Stop spamming the thread.

I thought this was interesting because you used Oranje's "spamming" as a reason to vote, not an actual scumread from a post. No scumslip, nothing scummy they're doing, just because they're "spamming"?

yes. he was being annoying. also the above post where I say i think hes mafia. derp.

VOTE: drixx

Bc y not he's already ded and omnomnom makes a good point and I want to be on this lynch.

Also, what's this about scum has day kill? Y didn't they use it today?

"Oh let's just vote Drixx because he's already halfway there, whatever lol let's not even bother reading the player's posts or anything." Wagoning because it's cool without actually believing the claim or having a claim to make is pretty scummy.

"oh lets rephrase what I said so as to portray it in a way that makes me look like a sheep"
Honestly, I thought the post by IKA above that was the hammer. i thought drixx was hammered, lynched, strung up, and I put it on as a little accessory to the lynch. take that in whatever way you will.

vonflare, Oranje is either town or contributing/helpful enough that your vote doesn't matter at this point. Vote real scum, like Toon Fighter.

I think he's kinda scummy but if that wagon isn't moving then okay

VOTE: toon

Still think oranje is kinda scummy

Again, you vote toon because you think it's what other cool cats are doing? It's popular? Why do you need Ice to coach your votes? If you really think Oranje is scum, why not make a case against them? Vote for them? Even if your wagon isn't catching on, if you build a good scumcase, people will push that wagon with you. The issue is you either don't have a scumcase on them from legitimately reading their posts, or you're just letting your scum partner ice guide you along through a scum game where you don't necessarily know what the hell you're doing.

lol

[Toon Fighter]

Ok I am back, having read the last few pages. TPTG's explosion makes me feel bad at a primal level, but hopefully kuribo won't do it again. The claim seems believable, and yeah, the other brother mason shouldn't claim. Anyone who says otherwise deserves to be policy lynched. Drixxx seems better after the push (see? you can make better posts!), plus the faction bulletproof, after some analysis, does seem like it may come from town. Anyway, there are bigger scums to lynch, and the wagon on vonflare looks like a good place to put a vote. However will do a couple ISO's and read some more before I vote. copper, NeverMeltIce and other game denizens, don't leave your seats, as I have answers for your questions incoming.

[deathfisaro]

816
I don't have reads on that many people yet but for those I considered, copper's reasoning is almost the same as mine. (a few I disagree on the town side but that's ok D1)
There has been a lot of noise to hide behind of, like I said before, Om vs Drixx or kuribo madness and whatnot. So the easy path for scum is lurking.
Considering that I wondered why a 3 people hydra would only have 6 posts in a 6 day old game. I don't like the votes either.
I initially found Narninian's vote on BBMolla scummy, but simmered down a bit after the unvote but copper's argument is within reason.

As for VysePresident, what do I say to "his play in this game is the same as your play in our last game where you were scum"?
I haven't paid much attention to Vyse, I'll ISO when I come back home later and if I indeed find it like my last scum play, I'll commit.

pedit: Can someone give me a crash course on masons? I read up on the wiki mason page but just tell me how they play and how they should play (and the significance of the role in a game like this).

[vonflare]

^ they are confirmed town to each other. That means if 2 people claim mason they are both the same alignment (2 town or 2 scum fake claiming mason)

[copper223]

@deathfisaro
By all means poke holes in my townreads if you disagree with some of them.

[Toon Fighter]

@copper: I don't fully understand how your 1v1 in Mini 1642 fully relates to this game and this case. Yes, there was a 1v1 there. Yes, there is a 1v1 here. The fact that the situation repeats here doesn't mean the alignments do. Especially on a larger game, with (almost guaranteed) multiball. Honestly, the possibility of it being TvT hadn't really crossed my mind before, but thinking about it now I feel it's more likely. Also, am derptown, can confirm.

@NMI: Thinking again about your answers, I suppose your claim might have come from town.It is a fairly neutral role, and I could see it being useful for scum. Also, asking the neighbors to claim didn't feel like a good town play (similarly, exposing themselves as neighborhood members, ChriVi seem more town than not, as the neighbor cop can confirm/prove they are lying tomorrow, and exposing themselves like that doesn't make much sense as scum). About the case on me, I don't think you have enough ground to stand on. Drixxx wasn't scum (to me at least) because of his stance on the claims, but rather on the distancing, weak posts and lack of reads. I didn't post a lot because the game grew drastically and somewhat intimidatingly and I could not post very regularly. Although you might doubt it, I did read backwards as I said, and did notice his post as scummy before I read the case. I on't know how that makes me look bad. My playstyle is hampered by the sheer size and speed of the game, and I try to make the most of my few posts.

Other comments: deathfisaro - asked for mason claim. Refuses to acknowledge why this is scummy. I feel this is in the "too scummy to be scum" field, but at the same time those posts feel off. OTOH, he seems to have played only in a bunch of newbie games as well as a Mini theme, so he might have never encountered them before. Wary of him, but doesn't deserve a vote.

vonflare - Subject of the second big wagon of the day. Looking at his posts, he seems derptown, rather than scum. Don't like his style, but the motivation seems more town than scum. His posts seem opportunistic and his defense not very good.

vyse - apologetic and low participation, even less than me (difficult, I know!). As I don't see any obvscum anywhere else, and feel like a pressure vote could bring more quality input, I will move my vote there

UNVOTE: VOTE: VysePresident

[Drixx]

This seems like a pretty obvious thing to point out, but isn't "Mason" really just a "Neighbor" claim with a better sounding role?

[God of Power Outlets]

OOC: Would just like to say after sleeping on it I agree with nevermeltice about vonflare

unvote

[copper223]

This seems like a pretty obvious thing to point out, but isn't "Mason" really just a "Neighbor" claim with a better sounding role?

Not as far as I use the definition?

Neighbors don't claim to know each other's alignment, if you claim neighbor you are just saying you have a separate thread with one or more players where you can also privately interact, if you claim mason you are also saying you know the alignment of all these other players (which you imply to be town obv.).

[vonflare]

This seems like a pretty obvious thing to point out, but isn't "Mason" really just a "Neighbor" claim with a better sounding role?

No. Masons are mod-confirmed town to each other. Neighbours just get to talk.

[vonflare]

^ Ninjad.

[Drixx]

I think you misunderstand. Perhaps I am biased; strike that, I

know

I'm biased because one of the people on that hydra was posting very discomforting stuff all day phase even before the blow up. I'm suggesting that one of the people on the hydra decided to claim mason instead of neighbor, when not actually mason. This stems from a bit of hesitation to believe that a mason team would be in a 13 person game; however, my experience is primarily off site and masons wouldn't have been used in that playgroup with under 20 people.

[copper223]

As a townie you mean? I am not prepared to entertain that level of distrust, plus while we clearly don't get along famously if you remove the whole erotica layer many of the reads Kuribo gave make sense so I have no reason to believe he would do that, a 2 mason setup can be perfectly viable in a 13 man game.

[Drixx]

I question everything, as you well know Copper.

[copper223]

An admirable trait to have but also something that may not allow to see the road ahead because you are busy glancing back

[Cuttlefish]

Vote Count 1.05

vonflare (7)

- ActionDan, Pirate Ika, Om of the Nom, BBmolla, BRantz, Ozgin, ChriVi

Soren (2)

- Cerberus v666, Oranje Crush

LucianRoy (2)

- Bulbasaur Commonwealth, Drixx

Toon Fighter (2)

- Never-melt-ice, vonflare

VysePresident (2)

- copper223, Toon Fighter

Ozgin (1)

- Boonskiies

Oranje Crush (1)

- Jackel98

Pirate Ika (1)

- Soren

Not Voting (7)

: PeregrineV, VysePresident, Reubus Swagrid, Dani, Narninian, deathfisaro, LucianRoy, Three-Pronged Trouser God

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-03-17 11:57:34).

Narninian and Jackel98 have been prodded.

[deathfisaro]

So given what people have told me so far, I misunderstood people who mentioned mason with TPTG.
I read 720 as AD saying he's mason with TPTG, but I guess what AD said was he's going to acknowledge the mason claim.
I didn't notice the sarcasm in 773 until 793, like, how do I know which of the three's posting and what he's like to figure out if it's serious or not.

Gonna post more after lunch.

[ChriVi]

@copper: I don't fully understand how your 1v1 in Mini 1642 fully relates to this game and this case. Yes, there was a 1v1 there. Yes, there is a 1v1 here. The fact that the situation repeats here doesn't mean the alignments do. Especially on a larger game, with (almost guaranteed) multiball. Honestly, the possibility of it being TvT hadn't really crossed my mind before, but thinking about it now I feel it's more likely. Also, am derptown, can confirm.

@NMI: Thinking again about your answers, I suppose your claim might have come from town.It is a fairly neutral role, and I could see it being useful for scum. Also, asking the neighbors to claim didn't feel like a good town play (similarly, exposing themselves as neighborhood members, ChriVi seem more town than not, as the neighbor cop can confirm/prove they are lying tomorrow, and exposing themselves like that doesn't make much sense as scum). About the case on me, I don't think you have enough ground to stand on. Drixxx wasn't scum (to me at least) because of his stance on the claims, but rather on the distancing, weak posts and lack of reads. I didn't post a lot because the game grew drastically and somewhat intimidatingly and I could not post very regularly. Although you might doubt it, I did read backwards as I said, and did notice his post as scummy before I read the case. I on't know how that makes me look bad. My playstyle is hampered by the sheer size and speed of the game, and I try to make the most of my few posts.

Other comments: deathfisaro - asked for mason claim. Refuses to acknowledge why this is scummy. I feel this is in the "too scummy to be scum" field, but at the same time those posts feel off. OTOH, he seems to have played only in a bunch of newbie games as well as a Mini theme, so he might have never encountered them before. Wary of him, but doesn't deserve a vote.

vonflare - Subject of the second big wagon of the day. Looking at his posts, he seems derptown, rather than scum. Don't like his style, but the motivation seems more town than scum. His posts seem opportunistic and his defense not very good.

vyse - apologetic and low participation, even less than me (difficult, I know!). As I don't see any obvscum anywhere else, and feel like a pressure vote could bring more quality input, I will move my vote there

UNVOTE: VOTE: VysePresident

I like you
VOTE: VysePresident

[Soren]

@copper: I don't fully understand how your 1v1 in Mini 1642 fully relates to this game and this case. Yes, there was a 1v1 there. Yes, there is a 1v1 here. The fact that the situation repeats here doesn't mean the alignments do. Especially on a larger game, with (almost guaranteed) multiball. Honestly, the possibility of it being TvT hadn't really crossed my mind before, but thinking about it now I feel it's more likely. Also, am derptown, can confirm.

@NMI: Thinking again about your answers, I suppose your claim might have come from town.It is a fairly neutral role, and I could see it being useful for scum. Also, asking the neighbors to claim didn't feel like a good town play (similarly, exposing themselves as neighborhood members, ChriVi seem more town than not, as the neighbor cop can confirm/prove they are lying tomorrow, and exposing themselves like that doesn't make much sense as scum). About the case on me, I don't think you have enough ground to stand on. Drixxx wasn't scum (to me at least) because of his stance on the claims, but rather on the distancing, weak posts and lack of reads. I didn't post a lot because the game grew drastically and somewhat intimidatingly and I could not post very regularly. Although you might doubt it, I did read backwards as I said, and did notice his post as scummy before I read the case. I on't know how that makes me look bad. My playstyle is hampered by the sheer size and speed of the game, and I try to make the most of my few posts.

Other comments: deathfisaro - asked for mason claim. Refuses to acknowledge why this is scummy. I feel this is in the "too scummy to be scum" field, but at the same time those posts feel off. OTOH, he seems to have played only in a bunch of newbie games as well as a Mini theme, so he might have never encountered them before. Wary of him, but doesn't deserve a vote.

vonflare - Subject of the second big wagon of the day. Looking at his posts, he seems derptown, rather than scum. Don't like his style, but the motivation seems more town than scum. His posts seem opportunistic and his defense not very good.

vyse - apologetic and low participation, even less than me (difficult, I know!). As I don't see any obvscum anywhere else, and feel like a pressure vote could bring more quality input, I will move my vote there

UNVOTE: VOTE: VysePresident

I like you
VOTE: VysePresident

I like this.

VOTE: VysePresident

[Jackel98]

I forgot about this game. It would probably have helped if I bookmarked it. Reading now.

[ChriVi]

@copper: I don't fully understand how your 1v1 in Mini 1642 fully relates to this game and this case. Yes, there was a 1v1 there. Yes, there is a 1v1 here. The fact that the situation repeats here doesn't mean the alignments do. Especially on a larger game, with (almost guaranteed) multiball. Honestly, the possibility of it being TvT hadn't really crossed my mind before, but thinking about it now I feel it's more likely. Also, am derptown, can confirm.

@NMI: Thinking again about your answers, I suppose your claim might have come from town.It is a fairly neutral role, and I could see it being useful for scum. Also, asking the neighbors to claim didn't feel like a good town play (similarly, exposing themselves as neighborhood members, ChriVi seem more town than not, as the neighbor cop can confirm/prove they are lying tomorrow, and exposing themselves like that doesn't make much sense as scum). About the case on me, I don't think you have enough ground to stand on. Drixxx wasn't scum (to me at least) because of his stance on the claims, but rather on the distancing, weak posts and lack of reads. I didn't post a lot because the game grew drastically and somewhat intimidatingly and I could not post very regularly. Although you might doubt it, I did read backwards as I said, and did notice his post as scummy before I read the case. I on't know how that makes me look bad. My playstyle is hampered by the sheer size and speed of the game, and I try to make the most of my few posts.

Other comments: deathfisaro - asked for mason claim. Refuses to acknowledge why this is scummy. I feel this is in the "too scummy to be scum" field, but at the same time those posts feel off. OTOH, he seems to have played only in a bunch of newbie games as well as a Mini theme, so he might have never encountered them before. Wary of him, but doesn't deserve a vote.

vonflare - Subject of the second big wagon of the day. Looking at his posts, he seems derptown, rather than scum. Don't like his style, but the motivation seems more town than scum. His posts seem opportunistic and his defense not very good.

vyse - apologetic and low participation, even less than me (difficult, I know!). As I don't see any obvscum anywhere else, and feel like a pressure vote could bring more quality input, I will move my vote there

UNVOTE: VOTE: VysePresident

I like you
VOTE: VysePresident

I like this.

VOTE: VysePresident

Sheepception?

[Soren]

@copper: I don't fully understand how your 1v1 in Mini 1642 fully relates to this game and this case. Yes, there was a 1v1 there. Yes, there is a 1v1 here. The fact that the situation repeats here doesn't mean the alignments do. Especially on a larger game, with (almost guaranteed) multiball. Honestly, the possibility of it being TvT hadn't really crossed my mind before, but thinking about it now I feel it's more likely. Also, am derptown, can confirm.

@NMI: Thinking again about your answers, I suppose your claim might have come from town.It is a fairly neutral role, and I could see it being useful for scum. Also, asking the neighbors to claim didn't feel like a good town play (similarly, exposing themselves as neighborhood members, ChriVi seem more town than not, as the neighbor cop can confirm/prove they are lying tomorrow, and exposing themselves like that doesn't make much sense as scum). About the case on me, I don't think you have enough ground to stand on. Drixxx wasn't scum (to me at least) because of his stance on the claims, but rather on the distancing, weak posts and lack of reads. I didn't post a lot because the game grew drastically and somewhat intimidatingly and I could not post very regularly. Although you might doubt it, I did read backwards as I said, and did notice his post as scummy before I read the case. I on't know how that makes me look bad. My playstyle is hampered by the sheer size and speed of the game, and I try to make the most of my few posts.

Other comments: deathfisaro - asked for mason claim. Refuses to acknowledge why this is scummy. I feel this is in the "too scummy to be scum" field, but at the same time those posts feel off. OTOH, he seems to have played only in a bunch of newbie games as well as a Mini theme, so he might have never encountered them before. Wary of him, but doesn't deserve a vote.

vonflare - Subject of the second big wagon of the day. Looking at his posts, he seems derptown, rather than scum. Don't like his style, but the motivation seems more town than scum. His posts seem opportunistic and his defense not very good.

vyse - apologetic and low participation, even less than me (difficult, I know!). As I don't see any obvscum anywhere else, and feel like a pressure vote could bring more quality input, I will move my vote there

UNVOTE: VOTE: VysePresident

I like you
VOTE: VysePresident

I like this.

VOTE: VysePresident

Sheepception?

That's cute :3

[vonflare]

Stahp the quote pyramids.

[Soren]

Roger that flame boy