We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[VysePresident]

Turns out I'm pretty much dead to the world & don't feel like turning my mess of thoughts into words again. Catch you guys tomorrow for real. (I promise I'm not flaking again, Dram.)

#Sorry#Dealwithit

[Reubus Swagrid]

Was gone all weekend but after reading up, scumreading vonflare would be sound but I'm hesitant since I've only read the most recent pages so withholding for now. Unfortunately due to assessments ect I can't really post until after Tuesday. Happy hunting

[Cerberus v666]

need to ISO vonflare, because I'm like 90% skimming this and need to understand what happened there.

Om: Heavy lean town, but could possibly be inspired and bold scum.
ChiVri: Town, I like the death attack.
Drixx: Kinda weirded out by the speed with which his developing train disappeared. Nothing he's done makes me suspicious, but the speed with which it was abandoned once he said something is...worth noting.
Copper: Oh hey, you share reads on everyone. That's nice. Townish

Scum: lurkers.(meaningless)

Disclaimer: Any post TPTG makes that is in character, I barely even skim. Reading it makes my eyes glaze. If I miss something as a result, sorry.

[Oranje Crush]

A big bomb of thoughts. These are all thoughts, comments and stuff from off page 14. So, there's a lot. The relevant stuff will be closer to the end.

Spoiler: Neighbours claiming and Ice

I have absolutely no problem with neighbours claiming that they are neighbours, nor do I see a fault in claiming their other neighbour. All the ability does is allow them to communicate, oooooh, the dangerous information the mafia can totally abuse.
Knowing most mods, there's likely a mafia or two in the neighbourhoods. So they probably already have info on who's neighbour with who.
I fail to see the danger of letting everyone know of neighbourhoods. As such I also don't see Ice's claim as role-fishing. What on earth is the mafia motivation for finding fudge neighbours?
Because of this I'm choosing to believe his claim, for now.

Spoiler: comment on hydras

Man, being a hydra is like being a schizophrenic, isn't it?

Spoiler: We should all claim *later*

Due to the nature of there being two setups smooched together there exists a large chance of a breaking strategy, however this should be considered later. Day one is too early.

Spoiler: General thoughts and comments

Okay so did anyone else realize how flip/flop and self-contraditory Ice's posts have been? He can't even remember what he said in his original claim? Townies tend to remember their play because they have no lies to keep track of. Any time I see someone who can't even keep track of his ROLE CLAIM and what he asks other people to do in reaction to that, that's like flashing lights and alarm klaxons.

VOTE: Never-Melt-Ice

This vote is utter tosh, Ice never forgot his role claim. Others have suggested and said he has however I believe these accusations to be false. Ice wanted all neighbours to claim, he asked them to do that. This hasn't changed since then, I don't see what "changed". There is the fact that Ice originally said that neighbours should also claim their neighbourhood, however after discussion he realised this wouldn't help and said to just claim being a neighbour. This isn't exactly a scummy change, what's the scum motivation?

Okay so did anyone else realize how flip/flop and self-contraditory Ice's posts have been? He can't even remember what he said in his original claim? Townies tend to remember their play because they have no lies to keep track of. Any time I see someone who can't even keep track of his ROLE CLAIM and what he asks other people to do in reaction to that, that's like flashing lights and alarm klaxons.

VOTE: Never-Melt-Ice

Drixx, my first impression of that vote is very, very conflicted.
It sounds like a vote you, given the game we just played, would make as town.
But the suspicion situation you have currently makes me believe otherwise.
Just thought you might like to know, I might vote you.

Why does this vote seems to be something he would do as town? Explain.
Also I've got to agree with molla, this is fudge fence sitting at its finest. Lucian is not pushing anything, he's posting crap like this.

I'd be okay lynching drix too

who the hell is grib

get on drixx then


ice makes me laugh so he's town
cerberus makes me uncertain
maybe when im not actually skimming upon catchup i'll come up with nice reasons

It's posts like this that make me believe Om's town.

*shrug* - Someone's gotta get lynched on day one.

@Mod - Does the lynched person get to talk in twilight?

I'd appreciate it if my wagon gets rolling hard if I had an opportunity to share something before it goes all the way.

Sorry, what on earth is this?

I don't know what to make of it.
Copper, is Drixx usually this passive when his life is on the line?
He certainly doesn't strike me as the kind of person to go down without a fight.

Could you not for once "not know what to make of this"? Man up and push drix then, don't stand around mumbling and trying to look town without having to actually work.

I'm really not sure how I would go about defending myself from what are essentially naked votes anyway. So now we're back to:

*shrug* - Someone's gotta get lynched on day one.

"I disagree with all your points for me being scum so there are basically no points. Nor do I care if you lynch me."
Someone explain the town mindset in this post for me, at least try. Make me laugh.

But is it a ploy?
Is it a ploy to get out of being lynched?

Why didn't we lynch this shit a while back?

My role makes it highly likely that what you are claiming is actually in the game.

Explain, this could prove helpful.

Anyway, boonskies completely freaks out and drops and load of mental crumpets because of my vote on him, this reaction doesn't feel right.

So is people voting without much reasoning/argument attached a trend in larger games?
I don't know if I want them to get away with such, it'd be too easy for scum?

pedit: My vote's staying there, but it's no longer a random vote.

First day in a large game starts out random, at least so far in my experience. Unless something unusual happens or someone makes a bad slip, the day one lynch wagon usually rolls on whichever townie has the misfortune to say something awkward that gets latched onto like a remora on a shark.

"All points on day 1 are bad and not worth anything and they usually end up with a town being lynched. (So the wagon on me is shit and I refuse to respond to it or give reads)."

Oranje seems mafia, bc his whole purpose in this thread is directing attention at ice without real reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a lyncher too.

Wut, I have never been the main push behind Ice, nearly I don't think I ever voted him. The scum read on me has the weakest reasoning I've ever seen. Oh wait, it gets worse:

VOTE: oranje

Stop spamming the thread.

Lol

Vonflare, Drixx and Lucian are scum. I've solved the game, woo me. Oh, I forgot soren, I need to rethink that as I keep reading.

Oh, he's voting for me because he has

better read

on me than the other guy.

Did you just scumclaim?

Lol

I think he means the read is, in the voters opinion, stronger.

What made you feel like you had to explain something soren did?

523 makes me believe death is town, this is a good post.

Boonskies seems to have town-slipped with his multiball comment in 532

VOTE: drixx

What made you change votes so quickly?

The fucking huge case after that explains this. I agree with it fully, however I'm going to keep reading to see if stuff changes.

Beautiful case Om. I'm really tempted to vote Drixx. You've convinced me. The PbPa doe...
You made your points as clear as day.

I actually want to hear Drixx's response before I decide. This should be good.
I haven't seen Drixx refute a solid case like this ever, so I'm currently making popcorn, and watching this showdown.

…

Sorry for my delayed play, this is my third time explaining it in a thread but my dog died, I started work today, and I'm still a full-time student, so my posting abilities are scarce. I'm only as far as page 15 in this game in my reading (I'm gonna catch up, I promise), but I need a little bit of time to get my head into this game. The weekend is coming up so I'll be good to go soon.

I appreciate the attempt to stay in the game, but know that real life always takes precedent, don't be scared of replacing out if you need to focus on more important things. That's my opinion anyway.

Anyone have useful Om meta? Does he normally do post by post scum cases as town? Cause I think I've only ever done it as scum.

I've never played with scum Om-Nom however I can recall a lot of huge post-by-post cases as town in varsoon mafia which I played with her.

I like how it's not okay for me to question your motives, but it's perfectly okay for you to sling profanity at me and call me useless and so on.

Just lynch me already, and when I flip town you can try and talk your way out of how you decided to target me and went and manipulated anything I said to try and make it look like I had slipped in the least bit.

1. You didn't question motives at all, you just stated random statements.

2. THIS IS NOT FUCKING TOWN MINDSET MOTIVATED AJRLZHSIDTSJ

3. The guy need to be crushed with the power of oranje.

If I hadn't said so already: BBmolla, copper, om, ice and TPTG are fudge town. Deal with it.
Man reading so many posts makes me aggressive.

AD who are your scumreads?

still processing.

Oranje/Brantz/Toonfighter gun to head.

I like oranje. they look so uncomfortable it is just funnier to leave them in the game. brantz is lynchbait. cld you plz quantify your toon read?

UNVOTE:

until drixx can pull himself together.

Oi

VOTE: vonflare

Why did you unvote?
And why vonflare?
I know he's scummy and all that but Lucian's worse than him. Thoughts on Lucian?

vonflare, Oranje is either town or contributing/helpful enough that your vote doesn't matter at this point. Vote real scum, like Toon Fighter.

I think he's kinda scummy but if that wagon isn't moving then okay

VOTE: toon

Still think oranje is kinda scummy

If you don't explain your read on me I'm going to rage. I've never raged online before; beware…

Although I'm scum reading vonflare I do question wether he could be lynch bait.

Ignore that, death is definitely lynch bate. They may be trying to divert a wagon on scumflare.

Narninian is likely town.

@All: OM-NOM ISN'T MAFIA.

Now to see who to vote...
UNVOTE:

[Oranje Crush]

I'M BACK GUYS!
TALK TO ME
~yoghurt

[copper223]

@Oranje
Why do you think Narninian is town? Did your Drixx read change in the mean time? Thoughts on Vysepresident?

[wgeurts]

Nah, drixx is still scum.
Narninian looks to ballsy to be scum at the moment.

[Oranje Crush]

Nah, drixx is still scum.
Narninian looks to ballsy to be scum at the moment.

[Oranje Crush]

Everyone might be scum in this game. And no I'm not scum. In fact, I wouldn't mind claiming straight of the bat if the need arises.

I don't think this is a good idea - there is gonna be so much death tonight.

vote: Vysepresident

Sheeping Copper at this point even though he's wrong about me.

The bottom looks "too scummy to be scum" and the top looks like a crumb, I doubt a mafia/sk would crumb something like that.

[copper223]

Do you think ActionDan is scum with him for supporting his claim like he did then? Did Drixx get lucky fakeclaiming that particular role? or are we not interpreting correctly what the mods told us about the two minis being mashed together without adaptation so he could still be mafia with that role and there actually are cross connected roles? Some other explaination?

I like your idea about the massclaim further along the road in case there is a breaking strat.

[copper223]

Wrt Narninan, I see what you mean, may be.

[Oranje Crush]

Haven't checked action dan however I know BP is a really easy role to claim and is often chosen. Not only does it scare of players by thinking "ooh power role" it also makes sk's and other parties weary of killing put of fear of wasting it. It looks constructed, the "faction-specific" doesn't sound natural either and I doubt that would be in a role name. As BB-Molla had "conditional" I would expect it to be "Conditional Bullet Proof". The semi-faction BP to me looks like he added it to scare off the other mafia faction from killing him and to make it look like a legit role.
It however could be real, however with two setups it looks more like a scum role than town. Why not full BP? Why only against one faction?

[Oranje Crush]

Sorry if my thoughts are terribly formulated, I add stuff as I think and being Dutch doesn't help.

[copper223]

No worries, I think it comes across just fine.

ActionDan said he is sure Drixx's role exists in the game because his role implies it, since there is a strong argument to be made that cross connected roles don't exist in this game based on what the mods told us about the setup if the role exists it is likely a town role that protects from the scumside built into that mini but not the other (or a third party but I don't care about that at this stage), Drixx claiming exactly that role sounds like too much of a coincidence for a fakeclaim so unless ActionDan is scum with him and is backing him up, which I don't think is likely because Dan didn't seem to care much about Drixx until Drixx claimed, my conclusion is they are likely both town.

[Oranje Crush]

Like in case it's skipped over

Drixx is town guys, off the wagon you go

Explain, you said you had very good reasons besides setup spec so I want to here them.

I'm bored, can we mass-claim?

[Oranje Crush]

Mass claiming will clarify a lot, however cops should fake claim.

[Oranje Crush]

Copper, good point. However there's no town mindset in his posts. Maybe he's a survivor or jester.

[Oranje Crush]

I'm really bored, anyone up for discussing each player in alphabetical order?

[Oranje Crush]

VOTE: Vonflare
Temporary vote.

[Ozgin]

I'm on V/LA until Tuesday.

I'm leaving my vote on vonflaire because I don't know how much I like the Vysepresident wagon, but I certainly still like the von case. I also don't think you responded to my small variant of the case, von?

[LucianRoy]

Okay, now I need to catch up.

[vonflare]

Ozgin I did respond to your case.

[Oranje Crush]

Why was vyse being wagoned again?
Especially with scumheads like lucian vonflare.

[God of Power Outlets]

tbone are you...

flirting with me?

okay I know ut is out of town and kuribo works a ton. can you walk me through your unvote on vonny other than you think neverice made a point that for some strange reason that I really can't understand you agree with?

babe, let the third-head tell you something soulful. I'm a bad man, a part of a sexy monster...but I have dreams you know....I sleep even when my other heads do not...I dream....I dream of golden fields of dongs....I dream of this game....A game in which nevermeltice's defense of vonflare as a VI resonated with me....

I think he has a point in saying vonflare is just playing bad and playing bad doesn't equal scum, and upon looking at my Scumrod in the mirror and shouting it down, I realized that there are other scummy players in this game, and they deserve the same tender loving care from the three prongs the stick out from our trousers that we have given vonflare. I'm not saying vonflare is town, I'm saying I've backed off on my read a bit because I can see some points another player is making. We all had a talk in our temple made of stone and dongs, and we have other mutual reads to pursue. I didn't pursue them in that post, because I was phone-posting and unvoting was difficult enough.

Vote: deathfisaro

Come get some TLC from my mighty Scumrod buddy. You're sketchy as fuck, and until you alleviate that, you shall drink from my mighty dong.

My sexy pirates, our other mutual scumreads are Lucian, Soren, and Vyse (death), can you talk to me babe?

how exactly am i sketchy as fuck tboner when every single living cell in your body shld be telling you otherwise?

I don't have as strong a grip in this game as much as I wld like yet. I am still kind of trying to sort things out yanno?

After I voted death I was addressing him.

[Soren]

tbone are you...

flirting with me?

okay I know ut is out of town and kuribo works a ton. can you walk me through your unvote on vonny other than you think neverice made a point that for some strange reason that I really can't understand you agree with?

babe, let the third-head tell you something soulful. I'm a bad man, a part of a sexy monster...but I have dreams you know....I sleep even when my other heads do not...I dream....I dream of golden fields of dongs....I dream of this game....A game in which nevermeltice's defense of vonflare as a VI resonated with me....

I think he has a point in saying vonflare is just playing bad and playing bad doesn't equal scum, and upon looking at my Scumrod in the mirror and shouting it down, I realized that there are other scummy players in this game, and they deserve the same tender loving care from the three prongs the stick out from our trousers that we have given vonflare. I'm not saying vonflare is town, I'm saying I've backed off on my read a bit because I can see some points another player is making. We all had a talk in our temple made of stone and dongs, and we have other mutual reads to pursue. I didn't pursue them in that post, because I was phone-posting and unvoting was difficult enough.

Vote: deathfisaro

Come get some TLC from my mighty Scumrod buddy. You're sketchy as fuck, and until you alleviate that, you shall drink from my mighty dong.

My sexy pirates, our other mutual scumreads are Lucian, Soren, and Vyse (death), can you talk to me babe?

I'm not scum.