We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses


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Post Post #925 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:24 am

Post by ChriVi »

Oranje Crush wrote:
ActionDan wrote:Like in case it's skipped over

Drixx is town guys, off the wagon you go

Explain, you said you had very good reasons besides setup spec so I want to here them.

I'm bored, can we mass-claim?

Oranje Crush wrote:Mass claiming will clarify a lot, however cops should fake claim.


Hmm... Not sure how we feel about this.

And why should cops fake claim? I feel like that would be a bad idea.. It won't help us find out which setups are being put together, and scum could use the information to kill lots of PRs and/or figure out who the cops are via process of elimination on setups using the claimed roles...

If anything doctors are the ones who should fake claim, cops are protectable.
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Viomi / Chrimi

Win / Lose / Alive / Dead
Town: 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Scum: 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Total: 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
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Post Post #926 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:29 am

Post by deathfisaro »

ChriVi wrote:
deathfisaro wrote:@ChriVi:
Well I wanted to see what Om's gonna say knowing it was a bait. If someone tells me they are reaction testing me when I'm town, I'll just acknowledge it and laugh over the silliness. If someone does that when I'm scum, I'd not directly respond.
You're so focused on the vote you are not reading 866~868 when those are what I wanted.

Why do you think I should remove my vote, is it because the trap failed, or is it because you like 866~868? How do you explain your unnecessarily excessive concern about Om's well-being at just 1 vote?

Idgaf about Om's well being in this game (he's my bae so I care otherwise), but because you already pointed out that it was a reaction test... At that point the reaction test is ruined and there's no point to attempt it anymore.

Your vote should either be to pressure or to lynch. If you're doing neither (b/c you've already said your vote was for your failed reaction test), then your vote should be helping elsewhere. :igmeou:

That's a very reasonable point. I'm sold.

About Om:
is interesting. This is like newbtown's reaction in their very first LyLo.
The last couple pages of interacting with Om makes me lead slightly town or a Oscar deserving scum. Not enough evidence to believe the latter.

VysePresident wrote:Turns out I'm pretty much dead to the world & don't feel like turning my mess of thoughts into words again. Catch you guys tomorrow for real. (I promise I'm not flaking again, Dram.)

#Sorry#Dealwithit

Reubus Swagrid wrote:Was gone all weekend but after reading up, scumreading vonflare would be sound but I'm hesitant since I've only read the most recent pages so withholding for now. Unfortunately due to assessments ect I can't really post until after Tuesday. Happy hunting

Speaking of who actually reminds me of my scumplay last game, these two. I haven't played any game with Vyse so I don't know how typical this line of play is with him, but with such logic I would hold back for 4/5 of the playerbase. So combined with ChriVi's advice,
VOTE: VysePresident

Cerberus v666 wrote:Drixx: Kinda weirded out by the speed with which his developing train disappeared. Nothing he's done makes me suspicious, but the speed with which it was abandoned once he said something is...worth noting.

Interesting point.
If there's only one scum faction I'd be concerned but in this game, if Drixx is scum and was getting bussed then let off, that's only about 2 votes give or take. 2 people dropping off the wagon shouldn't influence others so much that the wagon disappears, because people on the wagon were supposed to have their own good reasons to vote Drixx to begin with. So taking individual reasons behind the votes and unvotes, perhaps both scum factions have attempted to pick the Drixx fruit? Purely statistically I expect 1 scum on Drixx wagon but playing to each faction's wincon, I'm leaning towards expecting 1 from each scum faction.
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Post Post #927 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:42 am

Post by Soren »

Reubus Swagrid wrote:Was gone all weekend but after reading up, scumreading vonflare would be sound but I'm hesitant since I've only read the most recent pages so withholding for now. Unfortunately due to assessments ect I can't really post until after Tuesday. Happy hunting


This post reeks of scum.

VOTE: Reubus Swagrid
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Post Post #928 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:45 am

Post by copper223 »

@deathfisaro
Problem is Reubus pulled those stunts as town the last time as well, that's why we could have won that lylo in 1h flat if you didn't have your camping trip, so it's not a valid reason to scumread him.

@Drixx
What's your read on me?

@Cerberus
You come off as miffed with me for sharing reads, am I misinterpreting the tone of the post?
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Post Post #929 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:13 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

copper223 wrote:Do you think ActionDan is scum with him for supporting his claim like he did then? Did Drixx get lucky fakeclaiming that particular role?
or are we not interpreting correctly what the mods told us about the two minis being mashed together without adaptation so he could still be mafia with that role and there actually are cross connected roles
? Some other explaination?

I like your idea about the massclaim further along the road in case there is a breaking strat.


Bolding is mine. There is 100% adaptation. My role is proof of said adaptation. The description of the game did not say they mashed them together without adaptation, just that they mashed them together.
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Post Post #930 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:16 am

Post by Cerberus v666 »

copper223 wrote:@deathfisaro
Problem is Reubus pulled those stunts as town the last time as well, that's why we could have won that lylo in 1h flat if you didn't have your camping trip, so it's not a valid reason to scumread him.

@Drixx
What's your read on me?

@Cerberus
You come off as miffed with me for sharing reads, am I misinterpreting the tone of the post?


Absolutely misinterpreting the tone. I was actually happy you were sharing reads. It both moves the discussion forward, and gives a nice baseline for discussion and analysis of your posts and likely alignment based on posts going forward.
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Post Post #931 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:33 am

Post by Cuttlefish »

Vote Count 1.06

VysePresident (5)
- copper223, Toon Fighter, ChriVi, Narninian, deathfisaro
vonflare (5)
- ActionDan, Pirate Ika, BRantz, Ozgin, Oranje Crush
LucianRoy (2)
- Bulbasaur Commonwealth, Drixx
Toon Fighter (2)
- Never-melt-ice, vonflare
deathfisaro (2)
- Om of the Nom, Three-Pronged Trouser God
Soren (1)
- Cerberus v666
Oranje Crush (1)
- Jackel98
Reubus Swagrid (1)
- Soren
Bulbasaur Commonwealth (1)
- BBmolla

Not Voting (5)
: PeregrineV, VysePresident, Reubus Swagrid, Dani, LucianRoy, Boonskiies

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-03-17 11:57:34).

Dani has declared V/LA for tech issues.
*Cuddle*
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Post Post #932 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:37 am

Post by vonflare »

Lol vyse has as many votes as me now.

What's the case against him?
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Post Post #933 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:39 am

Post by copper223 »

copper223 wrote:VysePresident: when a player repeatedely apologizes for not posting in the way you are doing it he is more likely scum than not and knows he should post something but really doesn't want to draw attention to himself, the more he waits and the harder it is to get back in, does that remind you of someone deathfisaro? Add that you made my Bulbasaur post prediction come through early with your: I don't like the Drixx wagon and Drixx is a cool dude (I agree!) after his wagon died down, the purpose of which is to make you sounds good and compound it with your confused and yet unexplained scumread of me and your initial reactions to the claims which were all about questioning the players questioning them, which makes me think you know more than the average joe about their alignment and like to question townies that are either genuinely mistaken or gunning your teammates, I think you are scum.

VOTE: VysePresident
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Post Post #934 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:42 am

Post by deathfisaro »

copper223 wrote:@deathfisaro
Problem is Reubus pulled those stunts as town the last time as well, that's why we could have won that lylo in 1h flat if you didn't have your camping trip, so it's not a valid reason to scumread him.

My vote is on Vyse, isn't it? Reubus is more of a clumsy type than a cunning strategist so his posts in this game are more personality indicative and yet I see (both himself and myself from last game) from (him in this game).
Vyse is too disconnected from his wagon, looks like hoping that some magical scapegoat would appear and take all his wagoners while he is in hiding. Or not just his wagon but the whole game, that it will play itself.

Cerberus v666 wrote:
copper223 wrote:Do you think ActionDan is scum with him for supporting his claim like he did then? Did Drixx get lucky fakeclaiming that particular role?
or are we not interpreting correctly what the mods told us about the two minis being mashed together without adaptation so he could still be mafia with that role and there actually are cross connected roles
? Some other explaination?

I like your idea about the massclaim further along the road in case there is a breaking strat.


Bolding is mine. There is 100% adaptation. My role is proof of said adaptation. The description of the game did not say they mashed them together without adaptation, just that they mashed them together.

There is certainly adaptation. "We didn't playtest this" and "the game may be imbalanced" initially led me to believe that they haven't attempted any balancing (just sorted out duplicate roles or contradicting powers), but as more people hint adapted roles I'm starting to believe that the mods have actually tried to balance the game on paper, at least.
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Post Post #935 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:45 am

Post by vonflare »

^ last sentence

+1
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Post Post #936 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:47 am

Post by copper223 »

Cerberus v666 wrote:Bolding is mine. There is 100% adaptation. My role is proof of said adaptation. The description of the game did not say they mashed them together without adaptation, just that they mashed them together.

That's really good information to know and the reason why I asked everyone and their dog if they agreed with those assumptions about the setup, this changes things a bit with regards to Drixx, I put down my feeling that something was off with his play this game to him trying something new but if can be scum despite Dan vouching for his role then scratch my leaning town read and consider him null at best.

Cerberus v666 wrote:
Absolutely misinterpreting the tone. I was actually happy you were sharing reads. It both moves the discussion forward, and gives a nice baseline for discussion and analysis of your posts and likely alignment based on posts going forward.

Excellent, that's what I wanted to read.
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Post Post #937 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:21 am

Post by Jackel98 »

More comments soon.
VOTE: Vonflare
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Post Post #938 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:44 am

Post by Never-melt-ice »

Vonflare is still town, and this wagon and its buildup is horrible.

The sheeping of Toon Fighter's Vyse vote is just... wtf.
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Post Post #939 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:45 am

Post by Never-melt-ice »

Also, I have seen Chrivi's neighbor claim.

I don't like how we're all suddenly dropping discussion of that either. Chrivi, do you have daytalk? Can you ask your neighbor(s) why they don't want to claim, or if not, take a good guess for me? Thanks dear.
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Post Post #940 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:51 am

Post by BBmolla »

MASTIN AND CO WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU?
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Post Post #941 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:52 am

Post by BBmolla »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vyse
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Post Post #942 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:52 am

Post by Toon Fighter »

@Ice: Did you see my response to your points? Do you plan on investigating ChriVi?

I don't think the other neighbors should claim this early, FTR. Maybe tomorrow
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Post Post #943 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:56 am

Post by BBmolla »

Oranje Crush wrote:Why was vyse being wagoned again?
Especially with scumheads like lucian vonflare.



VysePresident wrote:Posting that I'll be posting tonight to pressure myself into posting tonight instead of falling asleep again.

Short thoughts to keep this from being completely useless are that I don't like the Drixx wagon, glad to see that dying. I like Orange for Town a lot more now, Molla for Town still, ChiVi leans slightly Town for the reason Kuribo stopped Townreading them. (Don't think they'd want to admit that as scum.) Om is meh-Town. BRantz is scummy, need to look back at Copper to see if he's still scummy. Actual thoughts & reasoning coming tonight.

-Not a neighbor.

-As a side note, I think Drixx is pretty darn cool.

Actual thoughts & stuff coming tonight.

VysePresident wrote:So...let's play Good News, Bad News.

Good news is that, due to a mix-up in my schedule tomorrow, I basically have most of the late afternoon/early-evening for fun stuff like Mafia, when I thought I was going to be spending it on fun stuff like a Taekwondo tournament.

The bad news is, that's because it's happening a lot earlier than I realized. (6 A.M. a.k.a. four hours from now. I expected the patterns stuff to be early, and sparring to be later. Turns out to be the other way around.)

So yeah. Post not coming tonight after all. Catch you all tomorrow. Sorry. :|

VysePresident wrote:Turns out I'm pretty much dead to the world & don't feel like turning my mess of thoughts into words again. Catch you guys tomorrow for real. (I promise I'm not flaking again, Dram.)

#Sorry#Dealwithit


Look, one "content comes later post" okay

Two, alright

But three

Are you fucking kidding me
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Post Post #944 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:58 am

Post by BBmolla »

We're not mass claiming today, fuck that, whoever started that should be asharmed
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Post Post #945 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:21 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

Drixx wrote:Erm ... me telling Oranje to be specific isn't a Pot <-> Kettle situation. I wasn't complaining about lurking; Oranje was. I simply suggested being more specific as a blanket shotgun like that wasn't likely to get the desired response.

So ... why did you feel the need to misrepresent me in that big wall of quotes?

I had a reason for saying that, but I'm sadly forgetting it now that it's 2-3 days later. I think it was referring to a later post where you said that you weren't pushing lurkers because there was stuff going on. Which isn't terrible, but still a tad hypocritical since you just chastised Oranje for not doing much for lurkers beyond a blanket "Hey, lurkers! Come post!"

LucianRoy wrote:You say this, and I was expecting the zebra post to be an entire case on me. Unfortunately, it was just you catching up on posts.I would ask for a reason with your vote instead of you just pinning me down as scum without explaining your thought process, but I feel like I'm not even going to get one.

I don't need to give an exhaustive list of reasons just to say that you're scum. As for why, though, your opinions on Molla's miller/night-skipper claim and NMI's neighbor daycop claims regarding their usage were so transparently anti-town that I thought (and still do, pending more reading) that I can't really see them coming from town.

I got the feeling Molla was being a bit more paranoid than necessary, but it's still a viable thing.

BBmolla wrote:If it's mastin, why do you care about my opinion of you

Well, it's not Mastin. I doubt she or the other head have much of a reason to care about what you think of their reads like that. But we've had this talk before.

BBmolla wrote:I still don't understand why you guys held off on posting reads to "discuss them." I'd much rather just see each head's reads than be filtered.

There was an expectation that two or all three heads could get together to talk in some form over the weekend, hence (partially) that statement. That...didn't really happen.

BBmolla wrote:@BCW: You know I was thinking that Drixx might be derpy town, but then he tried to subtley copy Boonskiies' townslip here so now I'm back to being gung ho on lynching him.

I see more proper paranoia than a subtle slip-copy, myself.

deathfisaro wrote:
BBmolla wrote:You're a faction specific bulletproof?

"Hey, I want you dead, please let me know whether I should kill you during the day or at night"

Well, for one thing, that's the wrong possible interpretation of that post (since, yknow, "faction-specific bulletproof" has no relation to the phase of the game).

secondly, that's not an outlandish guess, considering what can confirm multiple scumteams when that's not explicit info.

God of Power Outlets wrote:"Unfiltered reads," said the Angry One, "can lead to a Serene-type situation where the heads are bouncing all over the place and causing information overload." The Beast licked himself as he considered the irony of this statement while posting his own unfiltered reads.

Well, and I'd like to avoid that (both the complete mish-mash of reads and...the latter part. I can't imagine how much you're cackling at writing these posts, Kuribo.)

God of Power Outlets wrote:
deathfisaro wrote:"Hey, I want you dead, please let me know whether I should kill you during the day or at night"



wait, does this mean that one of the scum teams has daykill and the other has nightkill?

Heh, nice catch.

Personally hoping Om and drixx shut up by page 30. Their back and forth is getting nowhere IMO and involves a bunch of accusations that don't really look like they hold up FMPOV. Also, some of the posts Om claims are terrible semantics/nothing posts either actually read town to me (477, the posts referring to him "submitting to the lynch" like 387), not as scummy as he's making it out (377; I should know about that because I got lynched in one of my first non-newbie games for screwing up my roleclaim), or Om reaching for something to call scum (most of the stuff regarding his early posts). It looks nice at the outset, sure, but the real meat of it doesn't ring true.

Ozgin wrote:I think the Om of the Nom's case against Drixx is... Oddly fantastic. And Drixx's defense feels more or less like, "You're bullying me, you're just a dick. Whatever, lynch me then, I'm town and you'll just look bad when I flip town!" Drixx, if you're town, try refuting their points in more ways than just calling them a dickhead. Because honestly, if you flipped town, I wouldn't really subscribe to an Om wagon because
he has a point, you know.
Just because someone gets it wrong for all the right reasons doesn't make them scum, he's just pointing out that you look like scum based on your ISO.

Screams coaching, even though I don't really believe Drixx is scum.

Soren wrote:Does this guy talk like this in every game?

no, but kuribo's wanted to be this hydra for awhile (though I'm not aware of any prior attempts at it before now).

And...you don't know what a hammer means? Did you say you're new?

vonflare wrote:VOTE: drixx

Bc y not he's already ded and omnomnom makes a good point and I want to be on this lynch.

Also, what's this about scum has day kill? Y didn't they use it today?

Pretty much all about this post is scum, from the BW vote and the lame reasons for voting (it's not even Ika's "I want to hammer!" rationale, which is rationale I don't necessarily agree with but understand (and that's not meant to be an insult to Ika, to be clear).

copper223 wrote:1. You are so full of it, do you think Cabd is an experienced player? Do you think Nachomamma8 is an experienced player? Do you think Reckoner is an experienced player? Do you think Antihero is an experience player? Do you think Mastin2 is an experienced player? They all did what you describe as foolish, so the only foolish one is you if you are town which is probably not the case.

Only Venusaur claimed to have wonderful reads to give to the game at large, and that's not that outlandish for her (though you've probably never played with her, so that gets a pass). Plus, you're acting like both A.) she'll never ever give her reads (which she will), and B.) When she does it'll be too late.

copper223 wrote:I was mod removed from a game without warnings because a jackass mod did not like 3 posts containing 1 insult each when the other player was giving as good as he was getting, so since there is no precise guideline on how mods react to it I am now going for a 0 insult policy and I want it enforced or I will just leave the game

You are never going to last against people who pull insults for reactions (which is a viable tactic). Besides, there are some people (like me) who are going to call you stupid for things that are/should be obviously wrong (even if later information or a reread proves them wrong). Not that I disagree with the notion of a lack of insults, just that IMO trying to get mod action and/or threatening to leave because Oranje called you and a couple other people idiots for their opinions on Miller claims (just to go with the original start of this thread) looks more overblown than the insult.

copper223 wrote:For those of you that think Lucian is scum, go and check out his first newbie game onsite please, especially BBmolla but also the Commonwealth if you guys are town here, I am not as sold on him as on Oranje but his town play would probably look just as scummy to you if you think he is very scummy here so I don't think those indicators are good for this particular player.

I, personally, care little for meta as any sort of significant tell for players. bulb or Venus can look, though.

(PS: Not looking isn't scummy, just so you know.)

copper223 wrote:I am certain Mastin2 would use that excuse as scum. I am also certain if you are scum you would say whatever so that doesn't help in the slightest. Waiting to see what else you come up with.

...No. I'm saying that for me as a player. I HATE that.

...Whew, more than I thought there'd be. Please hold for 26-30.
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Post Post #946 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:36 am

Post by Drixx »

I'm keeping my vote on Lucian until he responds. Lucian ... stop being an inactive uselessness.
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Post Post #947 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:49 am

Post by BBmolla »

ehhhh

Actually, this is probably the right vote today

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lucian
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Post Post #948 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:07 pm

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

Drixx wrote:*snip*

You're starting to lose my patience and tolerance. now you're just sounding indignant almost for the sake of indignancy. Stop making such a big spiel about how Om is being oppressive and do something else.

Cerberus v666 wrote:Also, and this is just a general question going out to anyone who chooses to respond, do you think, if scum saw momentum forming on a train for one of their partners, they would prefer to pile on said train, or to take advantage of the other votes lying around and split the momentum to other options?

It's possible, but I think that MS site meta is moving away from bussing as a good strategy (although I haven't really peeked my head into the Mafia Discussion forums since I came back, so I'm just taking a guess there or adopting the same thinking as Venusaur).

ActionDan wrote:however, no scum BP would actually think to claim immunity to one scum faction (though to do so would be profitable, but I don't think they'd think of it considering what their actual role PM would imply).

This is a pretty decent point.

copper223 wrote:Lol I have never been lynched as town, bring it on babies, if you can stop insulting and resorting to AtE's.

You are Kuribo will never get along.

Vonflare continues to be scummy via inaction.


Is it a good or bad thing that I'm partially imagining that his rod has extended to spew spittle at people in rage?

...I'm voting it's not good.

Ozgin wrote:TPTG - Way to distract everyone from the entire Drixx wagon, all while making yourself look really bad.

...Ominous if true...

Boonskiies wrote:*yawn* ^

Anywhosies...

VOTE: Ozgin

9 posts total with 4 different votes, I didn't like how he handled the whole Drixx situation or his reaction to BBmolla, and I kind of am losing my scum ish read on Drixx.

...Nah. Not really the best push for today.

Pirate Ika wrote:hi copper! my name is mollie. have we met?

Hi Mollie!

Pirate Ika wrote:WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY YO MAMMA JOKES

I'D GIVE YOU SOME BUT I'M 10 PAGES BEHIND AND I SUCK AT YO MAMMA JOKES I'M SORRY MOLLIE!

vonflare wrote:Why am I bieng wagoned?

Should I claim?

I'd almost call this newbspeak.

Almost.

Then I remember than vonflare has really done next to none this game, not even to the point I'd expect a newbie-who-jumped-the-newbie-queue to have.

Consider our vote on Vonflare.


Om, Drixx mentioned that reads would be incoming, both after that rebuttal and during your little tit for tat. I do, however, agree that some reads are better than none. There's also what AD's said, too.

Never-melt-ice wrote:At this stage in the day, I see no reason why you shouldn't switch over to someone who's both less likely to be "derp" town and less likely to attract attention without votes.

At this point, anyone who is being as clueless as vonflare is needs to either leave because they're being a negative influence on the gamestate or are scum attempting to lurk through the game under the guise of obliviousness.

God of Power Outlets wrote:He's my mason and I'm coaching him to not do anything to receive pressure babe

I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be
more
subtle than what's between your legs, not
less
.

Never-melt-ice wrote:The tone of his posts pre- and post-wagon are identical - not content, but tone. He's being pressured and I'm still reading his reactions as town chattering on. He's going with the flow of the game, and I see no scum motivation when he states his mind.

There's going with the flow, and going
with
the flow. (italics for emphasis)

We, the 15 or so people actively posting, are doing the latter. Vonflare is doing the former.

The former is bad, the latter is good.

God of Power Outlets wrote:holy fucking shit did you literally just ask for the other CONFIRMED TOWN PLAYER to out themselves?

ON DAY FUCKING ONE

holy shit

no don't fucking do that pardner

Technically you (as in the hydra as a whole) outed your fellow mason. Unless kuribo pulled that name out of his ass in his rage.

Om of the Nom wrote:the rest of his iso is subpar tooespecially that jab at molla oh my

Probably, but I don't think he's of import to lynch right now.

Whoops, went a lil' ahead. 33-38 will be next.
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Post Post #949 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:07 pm

Post by Never-melt-ice »

Toon Fighter wrote:I don't think the other neighbors should claim this early, FTR. Maybe tomorrow


And why is that?

There is no reason why neighbors should not claim today. It's not like they're the ones in danger from this, unless they're scum and don't want me to investigate them.
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