We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

deathfisaro · Post Post #1050 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:14 pm

@Lucian
So you think it's better to let people vote who they want shot by you, even though there'll be scums among the people who control that gun, by pure number difference town majority will decide at the end.
Is this an acceptable analysis of your thought process behind the claim?
I think I'll buy it. Vig can be tested (and since you are actively asking people for names, it won't take very long to confirm, I assume). And the vengeful part is an unnecessary risk in a fakeclaim; don't see much merit in potentially costing your faction a shot by fakeclaiming part-vengeful D1. So put these two together I don't have a big problem taking it as is at current point in time.

LucianRoy · Post Post #1051 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:27 pm

↑ deathfisaro wrote:@Lucian
So you think it's better to let people vote who they want shot by you, even though there'll be scums among the people who control that gun, by pure number difference town majority will decide at the end.
Is this an acceptable analysis of your thought process behind the claim?
I think I'll buy it. Vig can be tested (and since you are actively asking people for names, it won't take very long to confirm, I assume). And the vengeful part is an unnecessary risk in a fakeclaim; don't see much merit in potentially costing your faction a shot by fakeclaiming part-vengeful D1. So put these two together I don't have a big problem taking it as is at current point in time.

I released that was stupid, so I changed it to top three names.
I kind of want to make the kill sooner rather than later, but the problem is the unknown role-block factor.
I wanted to absorb a scum-kill so I could make my kill with little chance of it being role-blocked, but I think it's worth the risk to kill today, become confirmed town, and help the town by getting an early flip.
Speaking of names, what are yours?

deathfisaro · Post Post #1052 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:17 pm

Mostly just Vyse at the moment. If there were any other strong scumreads I would have repeatedly mentioned it because my vote's parked on Vyse.
I'm on the scum side of the fence regarding Reubus but I'm still around the fence. Considering how much I wished him to greatly step up his game, I don't want to believe he's still the same old Reubus I saw last game. Since copper's scum play isn't something you can easily imitate, my scum play would have been the easier path and I see glimpse of it in this game. If this was his town game, I'm quite sad.

One time as vengeful I shot a lurker and turned out to be Godfather. So I'm okay with shooting one of the inactives.
People who have been away long enough without V/LA to get prodded so far are Narninian, Jackel98 (I don't even recognize this username), and PeregrineV (same). PeregrineV, should he come back, better have a mindblowing post. But at this rate I think he'll likely be replaced. Because I have zero read on the latter two but because I remember Narninian's vote on Molla, of these three my pick would Narninian.

ChriVi · Post Post #1053 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:18 pm

↑ vonflare wrote:Town with powerroles don't like to replace out

And this game is no-vt.

So if someone is busy but not replacing, it makes sense.

I know I would want to play this game to the end.

NO no no nONONNNNNNN stop this

Replacing in/out is

not

indicative of role. If someone is busy to the point where they can't play, they should replace out.

VysePresident · Post Post #1054 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:44 pm

↑ ChriVi wrote:If someone is busy to the point where they can't play, they should replace out.

Agreed, but there's a difference between being unable to play for a few days, and being unable to play period. I tend digest stuff slowly, and this is a large & unfamiliar group. The RL stuff screwed with my ability to actually engage & digest much of anything for a little while. It probably would have been better to declare V/LA, but I screwed up.

My apologies, and I'm willing to politely suggest what to do with any scumreads for that particular bit.

So, reads & stuff to come in the next few hours, in between chores. If not, I'll replace out.

mastin2 · Post Post #1055 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:26 pm

Sorry I've been gone for the last few days. If you read my blog (which, let's face it, nobody does), you'd know that I've been going through some seriously harsh times as of late, particularly over the weekend.

In this case, basically two all-nighters in a row doing nothing but studying to so much as keep my job. I joke all the time that I'm paid to sit around and do nothing, but truth is, getting a recert is absolutely BRUTAL, taxing both physically *and* mentally.

Good news is, won't have to do it for another two years; I passed. Bad news is, I've been left in a position where I practically siteflaked, albeit over a short timeframe, and it's going to take me quite a while to do "damage control", so to speak, on what my absence caused.

Soyeah, that's why I haven't been around for the last four days or so.

I'd say I'm giving this game my attention now, but that's a lie. It's already past midnight, and I've got SO much work to get done on here.

I'll do what I can, but...well, this is what it is. Comes with the territory. :/

(Also, spread the word. I might not get the word out to everywhere it needs to go out to tonight.)

In particular, this game I almost entirely forgot about, which is bad because it's the one which most needed my attention BEFORE I left.
I want to say I'll read tonight, but that's a lie; I'm going to bed. My buddies can pick this post up. (Sorry that I've been so negligent, but I'm determined not to flake from the hydra.)

Marquis · Post Post #1056 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:30 pm

mod, please replace never-melt-ice with this account. proof of ownership established previously.

good night kids.

Toon Fighter · Post Post #1057 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:50 pm

↑ copper223 wrote:@Lucian
My three names are Vyse, Vonflare and Drixx, the first two are conditional on asking for a claim and evaluating it before proceeding.

seconded

Marquis · Post Post #1058 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:07 pm

those scumreads are so fucking easy with all of you god it's like you're an angry mob plucking slow, genetically conformed goldfish out of a bowl

God of Power Outlets · Post Post #1059 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:32 am

↑ LucianRoy wrote:
↑ God of Power Outlets wrote:The Beast briefly stirs from it's slumber.

'We're of the opinion that if you have a pro-town kill, you should target one of the plebs who are low in quantity and quality, because those are the players who can either hide as lurkerscum or be the players who won't be NKed ever otherwise and could be mislynch bait when the game gets to unsexy time. We'd suggest the players with less posts than the Mod, but you shouldn't specifically name a target until the deed is done."

The Angry One mumbles in his sleep "if that bitch is town of course"

"Of course" the third-head replies.

There's something wrong with this post. It lacks a single reference to a phallic object.
I take it Kuribo isn't in the hydra at the moment?

The second thing I disagree with is killing inactives.
Nobody ever learned anything by killing an inactive, and I don't think they ever will.

It would be much better if everyone gave me three names.
That's all I need.

Kuriob can't post the rest of this day phase, and I was too tired to whip our massive dong into your face.

A) We don't trust that you are even town to begin with, Vengeful players don't make statements like...

↑ LucianRoy wrote:
↑ God of Power Outlets wrote:
Again, the Beast spoke. "I am death, I am fear, I am pain. Why do you fear death if you're town?"

Oh, come now. There are multiple explanations. For one, the answer definitely has to do with my role. If you disregard the possibility of me being mafia, then you should come to at least one or two conclusions about my role, no?

The role claim is nice, I get where you are coming from. But let's face it, you've been pretty scummy this game.

B) More importantly I'd rather you wiff on mislynch bait town than active town. Hypothetically if you were scumreading someone like Pirates and decided you were gonna make a hero-shot, well sure if they flip scum great for you, but if they flip town then you just did scum's work for them. As a person with a claimed protown killing role, making a protown killing shot is more than just killing someone you think is scum, it's also about taking away opportunities for the scumteam to mislynch or create apathy by keeping the plebs low-posting and passive.

vonflare · Post Post #1060 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:07 am

Helllllooooo

So Lucian is a dayvig? Didn't see that coming.

I recommend killing toon fighter, I guess. I'm still trying to organize my thoughts.

vonflare · Post Post #1061 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:24 am

Also trouser, killing inactives isn't very good sportsmanship, much less good play.

Dani · Post Post #1062 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:58 am

↑ God of Power Outlets wrote:More importantly I'd rather you whiff on mislynch bait town than active town. Hypothetically if you were scumreading someone like Pirates and decided you were gonna make a hero-shot, well sure if they flip scum great for you, but if they flip town then you just did scum's work for them. As a person with a claimed protown killing role, making a protown killing shot is more than just killing someone you think is scum, it's also about taking away opportunities for the scumteam to mislynch or create apathy by keeping the plebs low-posting and passive.

Okay. This makes sense. A misvig has no mislynch wagon, so if the target of the misvig was active and people already had reads on them, that information would go to waste. Whereas a mislynch on a lurker is less useful than a mislynch on someone active, because it's easier to avoid commitment on someone who doesn't engage as much.

vonflare wrote:Also trouser, killing inactives isn't very good sportsmanship, much less good play.

Please explain why this would be bad play.

copper223 · Post Post #1063 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:04 am

Look at all those almost never seen before avatars coming out of the woodworks now that Lucian claimed to have a gun, what a coincidence.

copper223 · Post Post #1064 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:05 am

↑ vonflare wrote:Also trouser, killing inactives isn't very good sportsmanship, much less good play.

This just makes me think your buddies are lurking.

vonflare · Post Post #1065 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:12 am

↑ Dani wrote:

vonflare wrote:Also trouser, killing inactives isn't very good sportsmanship, much less good play.
Please explain why this would be bad play.

Becuase we dont have information on them. we dont get any info if they die.

at least if we kill someone whos active, we can look back on thier reads with certanity about thier role. but inactives have no reads to look back on.

Toon Fighter · Post Post #1066 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:21 am

↑ copper223 wrote:Look at all those almost never seen before avatars coming out of the woodworks now that Lucian claimed to have a gun, what a coincidence.

Sorry, did you say anything?

Cuttlefish · Post Post #1067 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:06 am

Vote Count 1.08

vonflare (6)

- ActionDan, Pirate Ika, BRantz, Ozgin, Jackel98, Boonskiies

VysePresident (5)

- copper223, Toon Fighter, ChriVi, Narninian, deathfisaro

LucianRoy (4)

- Drixx, BBmolla, Bulbasaur Commonwealth, Oranje Crush

Toon Fighter (2)

- Marquis, vonflare

deathfisaro (2)

- Om of the Nom, Three-Pronged Trouser God

Soren (1)

- Cerberus v666

Reubus Swagrid (1)

- Soren

BRantz (1)

- LucianRoy

Not Voting (3)

: PeregrineV, VysePresident, Reubus Swagrid, Dani

With 25 votes in play, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-03-17 11:57:34).

Marquis has replaced Never-melt-ice.

Searching for a replacement for PeregrineV.

VysePresident · Post Post #1068 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:22 am

Y'know, screw Google Chrome.

Anyway, let's try this

again

. Third time's the charm. The plan is to post my notes & general overview of my reads & thoughts, and after that I'll start diving into my points of interest.

---

First off, at a glance (Key* (+) means a more positive read, while (-) means less so. (?) means a weak or iffy read in general.)

Town - Ice(+++), BBMolla(+), Orange, Om(-), Trouser(---)

Null - Pika, Lucian(+), Vonflare(+), Drixx(+), Soren, Reubus, Bookskies(+?), ChiVi(+-), ActionDan(+?), Ogzin, Death, Bulbasar(+)
Dead - Narnian, Dani, Jackle, Peregrine,

Scummy - BRantz, Copper(?), Cerberus(-), Toon(-?)

---

Brief Overview of Reasons: Commence!

Townreads

Ice - Town, with a capital "T" that rhymes with "P" that rhymes with "T" that stands for Town. Not really looking at the claim (which is decent), so much as his play. I like his take on the game - it feels genuine, and I'm agreeing with him on a number of points, RE: Toon & Flare, & bit of frustration at the gamestate as a whole.

BBMolla - Likewise okay with the claim, but looking more at the play. Mostly good with Molla's interactions & pushes. There's jumps I'm kinda meh on, like in 365 & 766 but by and large he's good for now.

Orange - Leans Town because I think I have a relatively decent grasp on Wguerts thought process after Elemental Mafia. His interactions feel about like I'd expect them to, outside minor off-notes in the early game. Bro's good too, so far, but I'm not quite as confident as to how well I can read him, given it's been more than a year since we played together.

I kinda like the way Om is sorting through the game, from a reads perspective, even if a lot of the pushes are kinda shallow. Basically, I think their thought process is easy enough to follow that I'm letting the latter point go.

Trouser - Claimed Masons, but I'm really kinda meh on their play as a whole. Not inclined to push them right now, but I kinda want to put them in Null- for sheepy/shallow stuff I don't like. Can I get somebody familiar with these players to tell me if they're inclined to gambit much? Is it typically alignment indicative?

Nulls & Meh Reads of all flavors!

Going to focus on the main wagons, and skim through the rest to my scumreads.

Lucian - (Effectively leaning Town at this point, but keeping him here because there's stuff I want to touch on in general.) - Pinged me early on for having an odd tone, hence my interest in trying to get a feel for him. There's some off-notes, but at this point, I'm seeing a lot of stuff getting projected on to him over his actual play. Honestly, this is something I'm noticing in almost all the main wagons, and I don't really want to touch them at this point for that reason.

I also skimmed his ISO in another game of his, and I'm noticing a similar tone to this game. Not really finding him more interesting than my actual scumreads. {Future Vyse - Yes, I

know

where the momentum is heading now, and that I'm in a convenient spot etc. It wasn't the case when I was pulling these notes together. Take that as you will.}

Vonflare - Borderline to a Town read. Stuff like 79 & 641 makes me suspect a trollish player over VI or Scum. It feels very self-aware in some respects, in that I think he's deliberately jumping into conflict, but not so much in terms of positioning. I don't really see him adjusting as he gets scumread - it's staying relatively subtle, and I don't like the projecting or almost unanimous read on him. There's not much in the way of apparent Town motivation, but I don't see the scum motivation either.

The TL;DR is that I think the case on Von is crappy, and at worst, he's a policy vig shot. Not wasting a lynch on him today.

Drixx - Pinged me a little early on for focusing more on explaining his play than playing it. This kinda got shoved to the side when he got pushed, for similar reasons to what's turning me off of the above two. In terms of reads, I'm okay-ish with his frustration at the wagon, but I'd like to see something more concrete.

At this point, he's more of a true Null than the other two, in that I want to gauge him a bit more, but honestly, I don't want to touch any of these wagons today.

Spoiler: Skim reads: Now with 100% less fat!

Scumreads

BRantz is mainly based on his jump on Ice. I'm not entirely surprised that he'd jump on something that might be considered 'bad play' but I don't like that it was his first, and currently almost only serious engagement, bar a reads list that

Cerberus - Cerberus v666 -

Null

-Scum. A few posts with a lot of fluff that sounds mildly useful/relevent, but doesn't go anywhere.

Watchlist.

{After looking at his ISO in context, I'm bumping this up to Scum. Same thing, but I'm feeling a lot more strongly as to his posting being pretty selective at this point. I also dislike how little attention he's getting, given that he falls well into the catagory of 'information void' people are supposedly looking so hard at.}

Toon Fighter - Really don't like 610 & 611. Feels like fake thoughtfulness leading up to his vote. {Bumping this up, because I'm nodding along through Ice's 748.} At risk of OMUS, I kinda dislike 831.

Copper - This is probably going to wind up needing it's own post, because my thoughts are mess, but I'll try to give a quick overview right off the top of my head.

The immediate TL;DR is that it's mostly a matter of tone, positioning, and what I feel to be an opportunistic streak behind his pushes. On a gut level, it's pinging me because I feel like he's not that dissimilar to me, in terms of how we think, but there's a stiffness behind it, for lack of a better word. (Albeit, we seem to have fairly different temperaments & personalities outside that.) It's stuff like the Bulbasar push, and the 'case' on me & lurkers in general. There's stuff I like, but it's consistently He seems more focused on bad play than scummy play, and that pings me hard.

The problem is that there's hints that I'm missing stuff here. 816 is one of those, right off the top of my head. It's not so much that I like his reads (The BRantz one is pinging me slightly & a lot of them are meh for me. :/) but there's a flow to it that has me second-guessing myself. Same for his Pika read.

So yeah. This is basically the unsorted, off-the top of the head version. I'll dive into it in a bit, but there's some stuff I want to get into first. (That, and I've got a lot of sorting to do, and I kinda want to take a break.)

vonflare · Post Post #1069 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:35 am

/slowclap

PeregrineV · Post Post #1070 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:46 am

Sorry mod- I'm here.

VysePresident · Post Post #1071 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:54 am

↑ vonflare wrote:/slowclap

Narninian · Post Post #1072 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:56 am

unvote

- not sure thats my best best right now

I've honestly been prodded in both large games I'm in (the other one multiple times) it was a mistake to sign up for 2.
My desire for 2 day phases right off the bat is not scummy imo (and if its not clear my desire was no to lynch molla, just to trigger the power) but one I thought it through I agree its better later.
In regards to townreading somebody with trollish behavior (as you are doing with Vonflare) I can never bring myself to do the same

Cerberus v666 · Post Post #1073 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:24 am

↑ VysePresident wrote:

<snip>
Cerberus - Cerberus v666 -
Null
-Scum. A few posts with a lot of fluff that sounds mildly useful/relevent, but doesn't go anywhere.
Watchlist.

{After looking at his ISO in context, I'm bumping this up to Scum. Same thing, but I'm feeling a lot more strongly as to his posting being pretty selective at this point. I also dislike how little attention he's getting, given that he falls well into the catagory of 'information void' people are supposedly looking so hard at.}

<snip>

Agreed. Well, not with the read, but with the way people are ignoring me while going after others for doing the same thing.

ChriVi · Post Post #1074 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:29 am

Two things, Vyse:
That's mine and my uncle's fave game

and I hate your tone in every one of your posts so fucking deal with it
How does that make me scummy exactly?