We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[LucianRoy]

Brantz might be scum. If we lynch Vyse today, I'd think they're disagreement was a sour case of bussing for Vyse to try and find a way out of this lynch.

[Drixx]

Not for nothing Lucian, yes you have a vig shot, what are your reads? Yes we've been deciding who you'll kill publicly, but you haven't given much input on it.

It's pretty obvious, and I'm not sure why you even have to ask. He's new and doesn't want the responsibility if the shot goes wrong. The shot itself mostly proves him town and makes scum kill him so as to avoid a conftown floating around later on (Although I won't rule out the possibility of a anti-town day-shot, it does seem kind of bastardish. Vigilante/Retributive are usually town roles in my experience).

[LucianRoy]

Oh, assuming Vyse flips scum. Whoops.

[God of Power Outlets]

Listen, don't take the scumreads personally guys, separate that out.

Rather than calling me a shit player with my head up my ass instead do something to change my perception of you. That's it Drixx, I'm not insulting you, I'm calling you scum for things you have done in this game! For scummy things! Instead of spending time insulting me because you had an argument with Kuribo, work to change that perception instead. If you're gonna insult me I'm just gonna call you scum harder and louder, and trust me this hydra is full of hard and loud players.

[God of Power Outlets]

1612
Because you don't read my posts.
Take a guess why my vote's still on Vyse. Vyse dodged my question, my complain about him dodging my question, and a reminder of the complaint about him dodging my question. (Vyse posted between all these posts, multiple times.) It was not a hard question to answer. At this point I'm more interested in his motivation behind

supposedly missing

ALL these posts than what answer he's gonna give me, if ever.
And didn't I just spend all of today's time and effort looking at what Jackel's been up to?

Oh and I'm terribly sorry about not being able to successfully read alignments of the people who lurked all game then replaced out.
Let me know what you found out about Reubus and Dani. I'm sure there's enough content these two shared that you'll be able to convince everyone else that these two are either conftown or obvscum.

Kinda the same thing, instead of insulting me with a backhanded comment you could try to change my perception of you. I am so clearly laying out what you have done that is scummy and why I have found it scummy! There is no grey area here. It's simple cause and effect. You did things I think was scummy, and I called you scum. Don't blame me for you doing scummy things.

[Toon Fighter]

@Drixx: First, please excuse kuribo a bit for his explosion. The mason claims can be great late-game but games don't always work out the way you expect them to. We had planned to claim later, but... the game happened, and kuribo claimed for some reason. Blame him and his nature, but don't call us scummy. Second, your defense is bullshit. You don't say you are town, but rather try to discredit MY mason partner based on bad reasons. If you trust my claim, why not TPTG? Third, your claim was always very fishy. Not confirmable, doubtful, and didn't really match your play. You said nothing about these things in your defense.

[copper223]

Ok back after listening to some chill music.

@Drixx/deathfisaro
What's your take on the Jackel98 claim?

@Titus
Now that you have all the information you asked for I'd like to see some reads on what's been going on.

[deathfisaro]

I don't have a problem you scumreading me, I have a problem with how selective and manipulative your attached reasons are. I have provided reasons in 1623, and instead of reading you just say I'm insulting you. Your perception isn't changing because you're not reading.

[Drixx]

Listen, don't take the scumreads personally guys, separate that out.

Rather than calling me a shit player with my head up my ass instead do something to change my perception of you. That's it Drixx, I'm not insulting you, I'm calling you scum for things you have done in this game! For scummy things! Instead of spending time insulting me because you had an argument with Kuribo, work to change that perception instead. If you're gonna insult me I'm just gonna call you scum harder and louder, and trust me this hydra is full of hard and loud players.

I already admitted to a bias with that account because of the interaction with Kuribo. I also pointed out things that you just outright ignored or even lied about in your "case" against me. Have the integrity to realize that the case you made against me doesn't stand up to the actual evidence freely visible in the game. I'd much rather spend my time this evening in mafia updating my thoughts on people in light of the many pages that went up while I was at work (and the many claims!).

It should be a lot easier to find scum now than it was at the start of day, and I expect someone with your level of pride in your play would be looking for actual scum instead of making an objectively flawed wall of text case against me. You accuse me of being biased against your slot because of some past spat with one of the players in your hydra, but you appear to be equally biased against me if your wall of text is any indication.

[Drixx]

@Drixx: First, please excuse kuribo a bit for his explosion. The mason claims can be great late-game but games don't always work out the way you expect them to. We had planned to claim later, but... the game happened, and kuribo claimed for some reason. Blame him and his nature, but don't call us scummy. Second, your defense is bullshit. You don't say you are town, but rather try to discredit MY mason partner based on bad reasons. If you trust my claim, why not TPTG? Third, your claim was always very fishy. Not confirmable, doubtful, and didn't really match your play. You said nothing about these things in your defense.

I never said my claim was confirmable. I claimed honestly, not something more convenient. The TPTG wall of text case has objective falsehoods in it. It's a narrative that ignores what has actually gone on in the thread, in several places. I already pointed it out. There is no point in saying the same thing over and over again. Either you two will realize that you're wrong or you'll keep up the false narrative until you convince Lucian to shoot me or the rest of the game to lynch me. Then you'll be wrong and say something like "I couldn't possibly have known he was town because of how bad his play was" even though I've pointed out where your case narrative fails.

To be good at mafia requires a willingness to question yourself. Earlier this game, I was pissed off at Kuribo and Om and not really inclined to cater to their whims about what I should or shouldn't do, and I didn't really care for either of them. That was a poor belief and needed to be thrown out. I threw it out and addressed OM's "case" point by point. Google "Litany of Tarski" and try applying that regularly. Obviously it's not helpful for the small percentage of games (on the large scale average) that you'll be scum, since you have to convincingly pretend to believe things you know to be false.

[God of Power Outlets]

I don't have a problem you scumreading me, I have a problem with how selective and manipulative your attached reasons are. I have provided reasons in 1623, and instead of reading you just say I'm insulting you. Your perception isn't changing because you're not reading.

Then you aren't reading, because I'm scumreading you for specific things, not every single thing you have ever done in the history of this game. Like, scum can legitimately scumhunt in this game because there is another scumteam. You can legitimately be looking for scum while still being scum yourself (as can any other player in the game). My perception of your scumhunting is that you are not committing hard on anything so that you have the 'town flexibility' to change your vote on a dime regardless of what your reads may be. Scum can scumhunt all they like but at the end of the day they want any lynch that is not one of their own. This is what I am seeing and it's not enough for you to say "well you're not reading cause I scumhunted the follow players". You either are doing exactly what I say you are or you're not. Telling me you're not doesn't change anything. Showing me that you're not does. The burden of proof for me is to convince other player's that you are scum, and that you are scum for the reasons I laid out. The burden of proof for you is to not backhandedly insult my level of playing, the burden of proof for you is to justify your scummy behavior in a town way to me/other players. Not to just say "well you don't know dick cause what I did/am doing is not scummy." I'm not the only player who thinks you are scummy for similar reasons as I have outlined. This is not a 'me' problem, this is a 'you' problem. Until you can quantify your play as town you're gonna continue to be scumread by me and other players.

[God of Power Outlets]

TPTG basically missed the part where I'm either conftown or obvscum.

ActionDan and I have claimed basically the same role (although I assume our protections are against opposite factions). Bulletproof is usually used in games with multiple kill shots as a balance measure. The most simple explanations for us both having bulletproof are as follows:

1.) We're each scum immune to the other scum team. This depends on there being two scum teams (which is mod confirmed according to some people, although I read the post as not quite confirmation). This also doesn't make sense in light of how the day played out. Why would a single scum team have two BP members? Positing us being on opposing teams, why would an opposing scum member out himself as having the same role as me as a reason to back my claim and say that I'm town? If I flip scum, doesn't that immediately put him in the gallows? While this explanation is one of the two most simple explanations for having two BP roles, it doesn't make a lot of sense given how the day unfolded.

2.) We're both town and immune to separate factions. This is much more supported by the way the day played out.


Having one town and one scum BP also seems like a possibility. If that's the case then AD will get town points if/when I flip and my claim is proven true. If he flips first and is scum I'll be mislynched. So I can conceive of a scum AD having faction specific BP; however, he doesn't read scummy at all, and if he were scum, why would he have put his neck on the line to save me?

So perhaps the penis obsessed hydra might want to re-evaluate its read on me.


Finally, Toon has been in the game and hasn't responded to questioning. Votes are the most effective way to get someone to take a push seriously and respond (See {Drixx} earlier this day phase).

This is a clear cut thing. You said that you are basically confirmed town because of your claim (or scum). So don't try to tell me or anyone else that's a falsehood.

[deathfisaro]

@Drixx/deathfisaro
What's your take on the Jackel98 claim?

Purely claim-wise, I find it a bit too plain but I don't find it unacceptable. Someone said it's strange to have a tracker in a game full of passive/day powers, but that's not quite true. Less than 1/3 claimed and I wouldn't be surprised if there are more night action PRs than passive/day PRs.
On the other hand I find Jackel baselessly optimistic about him successfully tracking a scum kill. I don't know if he even knows who claimed supposedly conftown and stuff since he admitted to not having read the game. Just casually walks in after spending all his time and effort on other games while ditching this one, says he should not be shot because he wants to at least make it to N1 to miraculously track scum.

I don't mind the claim but I don't like his plays so far

[Drixx]

TPTG basically missed the part where I'm either conftown or obvscum.

*snip*

This is a clear cut thing. You said that you are basically confirmed town because of your claim (or scum). So don't try to tell me or anyone else that's a falsehood.

I say that because another player whom nobody seems to be questioning or scumreading has on several occasions put himself at risk to confirm that my claim makes perfect sense in context with his own role. You say that my role claim is unlikely to be in this game as an argument against it, and yet there's another player who you don't seem to think is scum who put himself at risk. I went through the basic scenarios on alignment of AD and I some time ago. Occam's razor is why I said I'm either conftown or obvscum. Sadly, the most simple answer isn't always the most correct answer, but in this case I think it would be really odd to have one town aligned faction specific BP and one scum aligned one.

The problem with your narrative, TPTG, is that it relies on ignoring context or anything else in the thread that doesn't line up with it. You have to cherry pick things and ignore the context that spawned them. You have to claim that I'm not doing any scum reading by ignoring parts of my ISO that don't line up with that claim. I don't for one second buy that you just don't realize you're making a logically flawed case. You come across as too intelligent for that {At least, in the posts which aren't just references to your collective penis and such. Those posts don't come across as so intelligent ... they seem to be very compensatory}. I'll leave it to you to decide why you're cherry picking and twisting things. You shouldn't have to do that to nail scum.

[Magua]

Hey guiz

1. Lucian should save his shot. Use it D3 or something when we have more information. If he gets shot in the meantime, he still gets to shoot, so whoop-de-shit.

2. I do not believe Jackal's claim.

3. I do believe Drixx's claim, regardless of what kuribo thinks.

[Drixx]

@Drixx/deathfisaro
What's your take on the Jackel98 claim?

Purely claim-wise, I find it a bit too plain but I don't find it unacceptable. Someone said it's strange to have a tracker in a game full of passive/day powers, but that's not quite true. Less than 1/3 claimed and I wouldn't be surprised if there are more night action PRs than passive/day PRs.
On the other hand I find Jackel baselessly optimistic about him successfully tracking a scum kill. I don't know if he even knows who claimed supposedly conftown and stuff since he admitted to not having read the game. Just casually walks in after spending all his time and effort on other games while ditching this one, says he should not be shot because he wants to at least make it to N1 to miraculously track scum.

I don't mind the claim but I don't like his plays so far

Missed this on the catch up after work. Erm ... Death kind of already covered all the main points. I guess this is where I just shamelessly say "Baaahhhh"?

[copper223]

@Drixx
I fail to see why the fact there is another claimed partial BP implies, by occam's razor or any other reason, that you are both the same alignment?

It's a strong indicator that you at least partially claimed the role you were given, that I can agree with.

I do think you vs TPTG is more likely to be tvt now but that's based on play which is where the focus should be with a claim like yours

[copper223]

@Magua
Excellent, have a cookie.

[Magua]

Nom nom nom.

Shooting is not the best idea.

Shooting Drixx is a terrible idea.

[Narninian]

I was wondering why you wanted to use it day 1 when it works like that; but I think seeing who everyone wants to shoot is useful so didn't say anything.

[copper223]

The reason for shooting D1 was summed up well by Titus, you do that if most think Lucian should be the lynch otherwise so you need him to confirm himself, if most of you think he is town now I have no problem with waiting.

[BBmolla]

hey

I just joined a show cause they asked me to and I've been super busy

I'm catching up tomorrow

[Marquis]

I don't mind the claim but I don't like his plays so far

same

drixx is town until evidence proves otherwise

it reads town the claim handling is town etc etc

[Marquis]

ebwop yes i realize the quote is about jackel, my 2nd/3rd lines don't refer to it

[BBmolla]

What was Drixx's claim